Driving teens around before it is legal to do so

[Colonel Cadillac]

I just watched this show on MTV called "Super Sweet Sixteen" where this girl owns her parents and they spoil her with everything. Anyhoo, when they decided that she was not acting properly, they didn't give her the Range Rover she really wanted, and she started crying. CRYING. Her parents are throwing her a party that costs a pretty good amount, and her mother took her to Parace to pick out a dress for this party. The price tag of this dress: $10,000. I felt like going into the TV and slapping this girl. She deserves shit.

That's sick.  Just remember that .00001% of the world has access to that kind of money.

BTW, not to be a spelling Nazi, but "Parace"?  I assume you mean Paris

Haha, I know a girl who spells her name that way. Wupsy.  

[dazzleman]

When I first started driving, there were none of these types of restrictions.  It was very loose back then.  My license had no picture on it, and while there were time restrictions (no driving from 9PM-5AM with a junior license), nobody followed them too closely.

Society's tolerance for auto fatalities is dropping as cars get safer and overall deaths fall, so it's only natural that the states would start to zero in on the most risky driving situations -- inexperienced and sometimes reckless teenagers, with other teenagers in the car.

Boys especially tend to drive more crazily when there are other boys in the car with them (this is true of men, too, btw).  In general, I find the boys are more competent drivers than girls, and less inclined to have accidents because they're too busy yakking on their cellphones and putting on makeup.  But boys take more risks, especially as I said when their male buddies are in the car with them.  Females have a generally calming influence on us guys (except in one area   ) but other guys tend to make us want to do crazy things.

I think the laws make sense, but of course they add inconvenience.  I also think the driving test should be more rigorous, but this is not the whole answer, because competence is only part of the equation, while maturity and judgment is the other part.

[footoflead]

You make some good points dazzel...


I tend to do crazy things even if i'm by my self....But i feel like i'm a VERY compentent driver.... I can handle the twisties pretty darn well for someone with my experience...And i always Avoid putting others at risk

[giant_mtb]

Michigan is trying to pass a law that all teenagers are not allowed to drive with 2 or more other teens in the car.  Which is fucking bull shit.  That ruins car pools for school for kids that don't have cars, and it will make less room in our school parking lot that is already full. 

I have 2 neighbors that my brother and I sometimes give a ride to school...if this law is enforced, we won't be allowed to take them to school, which can cause problems because how are they supposed to get to school then if they can't get a ride from their house or from us?    :angry:

The reason the lot is full is because too many spoiled brats have cars. Take the bus.

The bus doesn't come to my area.    

[Raza]

I actually drive more calmly with other people in the car, generally, since I don't want to put anyone else's life in danger when they've trusted me with it.

[dazzleman]

I actually drive more calmly with other people in the car, generally, since I don't want to put anyone else's life in danger when they've trusted me with it.

That's a good attitude, but you should also think about the people sharing the road with you who are not in your car.  I think that's also a more mature attitude than most teenagers have.  I think teenage boys in general are prone to drive faster with male friends in their car, and girls get all giggly and distracted.  Both cause accidents.

[TurboDan]

Haha.  I always used to drive more "impressively" when I had a girl in the car.  I'd rather impress them than a dude.      

[dazzleman]

Haha.  I always used to drive more "impressively" when I had a girl in the car.  I'd rather impress them than a dude.    

You must have hung out with pretty wild girls....  

Wild girls, who you plan to bang later, definitely bring out the wilder side, so I agree with you 100% there. At the same time, more "respectable" girls would tend to make a guy slow down.  

Other dudes also cause a guy to drive more "impressively" in my overservation, for obviously different reasons than a wild girl would.

Dan, did you ever see the movie"Moving Violations?"  It's old -- from 1985, but it's pretty funny.  There's a scene there where a girl gets a guy to go faster and faster because it turns her on.  They're already in traffic school, and the car is stolen, which she neglects to tell him.  Your post reminded me of that.  All guys drive fast for that kind of girl...  

[Raza]

I actually drive more calmly with other people in the car, generally, since I don't want to put anyone else's life in danger when they've trusted me with it.

That's a good attitude, but you should also think about the people sharing the road with you who are not in your car.  I think that's also a more mature attitude than most teenagers have.  I think teenage boys in general are prone to drive faster with male friends in their car, and girls get all giggly and distracted.  Both cause accidents.

Yes, well my brain is somewhere in its mid 30s.  And as for other people, I trust myself, I don't trust them, so I drive defensively (best defense is a good offense, no?) but in case I can't avoid one of the idiots, I'd rather not put my neck with others out there.  I drive to distractions.  The more distractions (music, people in the car, weather) the "safer", or rather, more cautiously I drive.

[280Z Turbo]

Michigan has no law like this that I am aware of. I heard they were kicking it around, however.

I'm not sure if it would be a good idea or not. On one hand, a teen does learn a lot in the first six months of driving and they do show off more with others in the car. However, isn't this just prolonging the inevitable and wouldn't it be a real inconvience for families who need to carpool?

[GMPenguin]

I'm just pissed off at it because it is illegal for me to drive my friends around all during this summer, and then right in September I am allowed to which is when I can't.

Use the time learning to drive and gain experience and forget about being a taxi.  New drivers are easily distracted by friends in the car.

Come on--it's a stupid law.  The parents should set that kind of rule.

As someone who has dealt with this directly for 11 years I am going to disagree 110% with you on this.  It's not a stupid law if enforced properly.  Learning to drive is an important responsibility and new drivers have a much higher likelyhood of an accident.  Parents won't set that rule and even if they do they have no clue what their kids are doing anyway.  99% don't even no what goes on with their own computers when they're not looking, sitting in the same room.  By and large I find most parents totally ignorant to anything their teens are doing.

It's not the lawmakers' place to be parents.  That's what parents are for.  This is the type of charge that leads to moral legislation.

Wow I agree with Raza. :blink:  

Although I do disagree with this:

The morals police should go fuck themselves. They won't.

Thankfully, we don't have this law and I've never heard of it.

[ifcar]

Do you really not have the law, or are you just not aware of it? <_<

[GMPenguin]

Do you really not have the law, or are you just not aware of it? <_<

We don't have the law, I'm not that stupid about these things.

EDIT:  If we do, then every patrol man/woman doesn't know about it either.

[Raza]

I'm just pissed off at it because it is illegal for me to drive my friends around all during this summer, and then right in September I am allowed to which is when I can't.

Use the time learning to drive and gain experience and forget about being a taxi.  New drivers are easily distracted by friends in the car.

Come on--it's a stupid law.  The parents should set that kind of rule.

As someone who has dealt with this directly for 11 years I am going to disagree 110% with you on this.  It's not a stupid law if enforced properly.  Learning to drive is an important responsibility and new drivers have a much higher likelyhood of an accident.  Parents won't set that rule and even if they do they have no clue what their kids are doing anyway.  99% don't even no what goes on with their own computers when they're not looking, sitting in the same room.  By and large I find most parents totally ignorant to anything their teens are doing.

It's not the lawmakers' place to be parents.  That's what parents are for.  This is the type of charge that leads to moral legislation.

Wow I agree with Raza. :blink:  

Although I do disagree with this:

The morals police should go fuck themselves. They won't.

Thankfully, we don't have this law and I've never heard of it.

Eh, I'm a libertarian, excuse me.  
But why do you have such a hard on for the morals police?  Do you like Bible legislation?

[R33 GT-R]

Well Raza should they let child porn rings go because they have no morals.  

[Raza]

Well Raza should they let child porn rings go because they have no morals.

Not necessarily, but they definitely should lower the age of consent.  18 is very high in an age where girls sprout in elementary or junior high school.  The first girl with breasts in my grade happened in 4th grade.  

[GMPenguin]

I'm just pissed off at it because it is illegal for me to drive my friends around all during this summer, and then right in September I am allowed to which is when I can't.

Use the time learning to drive and gain experience and forget about being a taxi.  New drivers are easily distracted by friends in the car.

Come on--it's a stupid law.  The parents should set that kind of rule.

As someone who has dealt with this directly for 11 years I am going to disagree 110% with you on this.  It's not a stupid law if enforced properly.  Learning to drive is an important responsibility and new drivers have a much higher likelyhood of an accident.  Parents won't set that rule and even if they do they have no clue what their kids are doing anyway.  99% don't even no what goes on with their own computers when they're not looking, sitting in the same room.  By and large I find most parents totally ignorant to anything their teens are doing.

It's not the lawmakers' place to be parents.  That's what parents are for.  This is the type of charge that leads to moral legislation.

Wow I agree with Raza. :blink:  

Although I do disagree with this:

The morals police should go fuck themselves. They won't.

Thankfully, we don't have this law and I've never heard of it.

Eh, I'm a libertarian, excuse me.  
But why do you have such a hard on for the morals police?  Do you like Bible legislation?

No, I disagreed that they wouldn't fuck themselves.  

[footoflead]

Well Raza should they let child porn rings go because they have no morals.

Not necessarily, but they definitely should lower the age of consent.  18 is very high in an age where girls sprout in elementary or junior high school.  The first girl with breasts in my grade happened in 4th grade.

:blink: Lucky...    

[850CSi]

I believe the law in Illinois is that you can't have more than 2 people under 21 who are not siblings in the car for the first 6 months.




BTW, Libertarians all the way.

[Raza]

That law makes sense, since one of the best things for parents about having kids who can drive is having kids who can drive the younger kids around.  I've done most of the food shopping for my house since I turned 16.5--I even can choose the proper vegetables now.

[Raza]

Well Raza should they let child porn rings go because they have no morals.

Not necessarily, but they definitely should lower the age of consent.  18 is very high in an age where girls sprout in elementary or junior high school.  The first girl with breasts in my grade happened in 4th grade.

:blink: Lucky...  

Yeah, she's very hot.

[dazzleman]

This study confirms my theory about risky driving by males when there are other males in the car.
_____________________________________________________________
Friday, August 26, 2005

Driving With Boys (NIH Press Release)
Teenage drivers-both males and females-were more likely to tailgate and exceed the speed limit if there was a teenage male passenger in the front seat, according to a study by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development of the National Institutes of Health.

Conversely, male teenagers were less likely to tailgate or exceed the speed limit when a teenage female was in the front passenger seat.

In addition, female teen drivers were slightly more likely to tailgate if there was a female teen passenger in the vehicle with them.

The study was published on-line in Accident Analysis and Prevention and will appear in a future edition of that journal.

"This study provides information that will be useful for officials in devising teen licensing standards," said NICHD Director Duane Alexander, M.D. "The findings indicate that teen risky driving increases in the presence of teen passengers, particularly male teen passengers. But more important, the finding should remind teens-and the adults who care about them-that they need to drive safely, regardless of who is in the passenger seat."

The study was unable to determine why the presence of teen males increased the likelihood of speeding and tailgating, said the study�s first author Bruce G. Simons-Morton, Ed.D., M.P.H, Chief of NICHD's Prevention Research Branch.

Crash rates for 16- and 17-year-old drivers are higher in the presence of teen passengers, Dr. Simons-Morton and his colleagues wrote. However, researchers do not understand the reasons for these higher crash rates. Dr. Simons-Morton and colleagues at the survey research firm Westat undertook the current study to learn how the presence of teen passengers might affect teens' driving behavior.

To conduct the study, the researchers positioned observers at the parking lot exits of 10 high schools in the suburban Washington, D.C. area. The observers took notes on the make and model of the departing vehicles, as well as the age and gender of the driver and passengers. A second group of observers was stationed ? to ? of a mile away from the parking lot, and used video recording equipment and a laser-assisted radar device to measure traffic flow. This second set of observers charted the speed of the vehicles and measured vehicle headway, an indication of how closely vehicles follow the vehicles in front of them. The study authors defined vehicle headway as the time (in seconds) between vehicles as they passed a fixed point in the roadway.

More than 3000 passing vehicles were recorded at the second site. Of these, 2251 were vehicles in general traffic, and 471 were teen drivers (245 male and 226 female). No passengers were present in 232 of the teen vehicles, and one or more passengers were present in 239 of the teen vehicles.

On average, teens drove 1.3 miles an hour faster than the general traffic. Moreover, the average headway for teen drivers was about .17 seconds shorter than for the general traffic (about 10 feet less at 40 miles an hour).

Both male and female teenage drivers were most likely to drive faster than the general traffic and to allow shorter headways if there was a male teenage passenger in the car. In fact, when a male passenger was in the vehicle, a quarter of teenage drivers exceeded the speed limit by at least 15 miles an hour.

(A graph showing the percentage of teenagers driving over 15 miles an hour is posted here.)

Similarly, both male and female teens drove faster and allowed shorter headways in the presence of a male teenage passenger when compared to teens who had either no passengers or a female teen passenger. However, teenage males allowed longer headways in the presence of female passengers.

On average, headways were .3 seconds shorter for male teens drivers with male teen passengers, and .15 seconds shorter for female teen drivers with female teen passengers.

"At typical driving speeds of around 40 mph, a 0.3 [seconds] difference is equivalent to traveling slightly more than one car length closer to the vehicle ahead," the authors wrote.

In the article, the study authors explained that although they studied vehicle headway and speed independently, these two factors are probably related. "Close following headways may constrain speed; fast driving may result in close following," they wrote.

For this reason, the authors charted the proportion of teens engaging in some form of risky driving, which they defined as either driving with a headway of less than 1 second, and speeds 15 or more miles above the posted speed limit.

According to these criteria, of the 14.9 percent of teen males engaging in risky driving, 21.7 percent had a male teen passenger in the vehicle. In contrast, only 5.5 percent of teen male drivers showed risky driving behavior in the presence of a female passenger.

Of the 13.1 percent of teen female drivers showing risky driving behavior, 12.9 percent had a male teen passenger, and 15.5 percent had a female passenger. Dr. Simons-Morton said that most cases of risky driving in this 15.5 percent of risky teen female drivers were due to short headways.

Dr. Simons-Morton noted that the current study could not identify why teens were more likely to engage in more risky driving behavior in the presence of teen passengers. Teen passengers may distract the driver or change the driver�s attitude or emotion in ways that are not yet clear. To find answers, he and his colleagues are currently designing a study that will involve placing electronic monitoring equipment in vehicles with teen drivers. After learning the reasons for the risky behavior, researchers can then work to develop ways to prevent it.

Until answers become available, Dr. Simons-Morton cautioned parents and teens to be aware of a tendency that teens appear to have toward risky driving when other teens are in the vehicle with them, and to be extra vigilant against unsafe driving under these conditions.

[850CSi]

This study confirms my theory about risky driving by males when there are other males in the car.

I can handle having 4 of my friends with me with and volume turned up if it's an area I know. That changes completely if I'm in an area I don't know, especially on the highway.

Neither change the way I drive, though: 5-10 over on local roads, 10-20 over on highways (Especially on I-294, where the speed of traffic is usually 70 or more), and faster turns than most people do (Helps keep traffic flowing).


I think I'm off supervision now, too. Only one conviction on my record for not properly signalling (BOOOOOOO! Then again, I've never failed to signal since then). Does anything happen to that when I turn 18?