The Nissan 370Z

[S204STi]

Whether or not they could implement such a system is almost irrelevant, since we can do seemingly anything these days with automotive tech, but whether it's useful or dependable is another matter.  I wouldn't buy the car if I couldn't defeat such a stupid feature.

[Nethead]

Just when you thought it was impossible to make the 350Z door handles any tackier, Nissan outwits you and introduces the door handles of the 370Z.  What are these people thinking???

I don't like the rear side windows either--angular corners in an otherwise fairly rounded vehicle.  The grille is a little iffy at each end, too.  I'd criticize the unnecessarily busy headlights and taillights, too, but I have a 2003 Focus so I have absolutely no right to talk trash about the 370Z's lights.  The storage area is outstanding for a sportscar, and the overall package is well done, even if some of the details are rather sketchy.  Too bad they went with a plastic cover over much of the engine's details--the potency of the engine speaks for itself, thank you, and has nothing that deserves to be hidden.   

[ChrisV]

I couldn't even imagine downshifting without rev matching.  I tried to explain it to my friend once by showing him what happens, and the first three times I tried it, I rev matched. 

It's just part of being a competent driver, frankly. 

While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.

[sportyaccordy]

While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.

Well, this is based on the GT-R's transmission correct? I hear a lot of people are dying from their warranties being canceled just for USING launch control. So maybe it's for the better.

[ChrisV]

hmmm.

Still not liking the door handles, but I don't mind the lights for some reason.

[S204STi]

While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.

I drive in the mountains a lot which means that I can go from 5th gear to needing to downshift to 3rd or lower for engine braking on hills, or for spirited driving when I want to downshift for a corner.  Rev matching makes life easier for the drivetrain, from the clutch to the gears, by making a smooth transition rather than either popping the clutch or slipping it slowly.

I'm not talking about double-clutching though, I am talking about bringing the revs up to match the gear you selected before releasing the clutch pedal.  Maybe that was the original topic, if so my bad.

[S204STi]

hmmm.

Still not liking the door handles, but I don't mind the lights for some reason.

Door handles too chunky, but I love it from all angles other than the front.

[Cookie Monster]

Hopefully people will complain enough about the revmatching so that Nissan will take it out the next year.

[MX793]

While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.

I rev match to smooth the transition when I let out the clutch after a downshift (so it doesn't feel like I just stepped on the brakes as the engine gets spun up to match the wheel speed) moreso than to spare the synchros.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I rev match to smooth the transition when I let out the clutch after a downshift (so it doesn't feel like I just stepped on the brakes as the engine gets spun up to match the wheel speed) moreso than to spare the synchros.

Ditto, i just don't like the sudden jerk of downshifting without matching revs.

[MX793]

After thinking about how this thing might work, I think we all might have been looking at the rev-matching from the wrong angle.  Most of us double-clutch our downshifts, so we match revs prior to engaging the next gear.  But perhaps this system matches revs after the gear is selected but before (or while) the clutch is being released.  This would be akin to the method used to match revs while downshifting on a motorcycle (where there is no neutral between gears) to smooth out the shift.  This makes a lot more sense to me since the engine wouldn't have to guess what the next gear selected will be, it will detect which gear was shifted in to and apply throttle appropriately to match the engine speed to the road speed for that gear as the clutch is released.

Still begs the question as to just how useful this will be.  Many manual drivers, particularly enthusiasts, either blip the throttle themselves prior to clutch release or double-clutch their downshifts to smooth out the shift.

[MX793]

Ditto, i just don't like the sudden jerk of downshifting without matching revs.

And in a racing situation, that jerk can cause the tires to break loose if downshifting while under heavy braking.  Not a good thing.  Besides needing to match revs to get the non-synchro'ed gearbox to even go into the next gear, that's the other main reason why racing drivers match revs on a downshift.

[TBR]

Well, this is based on the GT-R's transmission correct? I hear a lot of people are dying from their warranties being canceled just for USING launch control. So maybe it's for the better.

Incorrect. GT-R's transmission is a DSG type box, this has a traditional, single clutch manual.

And, it doesn't seem to off the wall, most manufacturers aren't going to cover damage caused by abuse.

[ChrisV]

Still, never had to do it on the autocross track. Never shocked and locked up the tires.  I don't sidestep the clutch, either, so maybe I simply have smoother transitions. Only time I've really done rev-matching is when I'm not even using the clutch or in an older car/race car with primitive synchros/no synchros.

[280Z Turbo]

And in a racing situation, that jerk can cause the tires to break loose if downshifting while under heavy braking.  Not a good thing.  Besides needing to match revs to get the non-synchro'ed gearbox to even go into the next gear, that's the other main reason why racing drivers match revs on a downshift.

+1

I used to do that on the Mazda racecar that I drive, but I rev match now. It's scary as hell when the tail starts wiggling on you going into a turn.

[MX793]

Still, never had to do it on the autocross track. Never shocked and locked up the tires.  I don't sidestep the clutch, either, so maybe I simply have smoother transitions. Only time I've really done rev-matching is when I'm not even using the clutch or in an older car/race car with primitive synchros/no synchros.

You really must have eased into the clutch.  Then again, how many autocrosses have 4th or 5th gear, triple-digit straights that go into 1st or 2nd gear hairpins?

Even with synchromesh gearboxes these days, stock car drivers all still rev-match their downshifts.  Motorcycle racers also all blip the throttle to match revs before letting the clutch out on a downshift when braking into a corner.

[MX793]

Incorrect. GT-R's transmission is a DSG type box, this has a traditional, single clutch manual.

And, it doesn't seem to off the wall, most manufacturers aren't going to cover damage caused by abuse.

How is using a manufacturer installed feature of a car the way it's supposed to be used "abuse".  If Nissan didn't want to cover the damage caused by the use of the "launch control" system they designed, they shouldn't have put that feature in the car.

[sportyaccordy]

Incorrect. GT-R's transmission is a DSG type box, this has a traditional, single clutch manual.

And, it doesn't seem to off the wall, most manufacturers aren't going to cover damage caused by abuse.

Ah I'm not sure why I thought it was based on the DSG. I'm pretty sure the 370Z has rear-mounted transaxles though.

And the launch control is a feature of the GT-R. Why would they void the warrantee from damage incurred by it? More importantly, why make it a feature if it nukes the tranny?

I can't wait for this to come out, as 350Zs will become even more dirt cheap.

[ChrisV]

Starting to see a pattern here. Those that say they won't drive a car with an automatic are also basically saying thay drive like an old school race car on the street at all times. Especially if one can't conceive of driving any other way...

All I'm saying is with very few exceptions, I've never seen a need to do that on the street or when shifting fast on the track. Never hurt a car by not doing it, either.

You really must have eased into the clutch. 

Nope. I don't sidestep the clutch, but I don't let it out very slowly, either.

Then again, how many autocrosses have 4th or 5th gear, triple-digit straights that go into 1st or 2nd gear hairpins?

Not to many street situations like that, either. And autocrosses have a lot of up and down shifting very rapidly where run differences between drivers can often come down to thousandths of a second. The only time I wasted any time on extraneous blipping was in race cars with crashboxes, where you had to spend extra time doubleclutching just to get the gears to change at all.

Do it if you want to. Just don't tell me it's necessary in a street car.

[TBR]

How is using a manufacturer installed feature of a car the way it's supposed to be used "abuse".  If Nissan didn't want to cover the damage caused by the use of the "launch control" system they designed, they shouldn't have put that feature in the car.

Launching a car hard is abusing it, especially doing so repeatedly. The transmission should be more robust if they're going to offer launch control, but I assure you that Ferrari or Lambo wouldn't cover a blown transmission either.

[Catman]

hmmm.

Still not liking the door handles, but I don't mind the lights for some reason.

Looks pretty good. 

[MX793]

Starting to see a pattern here. Those that say they won't drive a car with an automatic are also basically saying thay drive like an old school race car on the street at all times. Especially if one can't conceive of driving any other way...

All I'm saying is with very few exceptions, I've never seen a need to do that on the street or when shifting fast on the track. Never hurt a car by not doing it, either.

Nope. I don't sidestep the clutch, but I don't let it out very slowly, either.

Not to many street situations like that, either. And autocrosses have a lot of up and down shifting very rapidly where run differences between drivers can often come down to thousandths of a second. The only time I wasted any time on extraneous blipping was in race cars with crashboxes, where you had to spend extra time doubleclutching just to get the gears to change at all.

Do it if you want to. Just don't tell me it's necessary in a street car.

I actually used to drive without any sort of rev matching.  I got tired of the forward lunge induced by downshifting without rev matching and didn't like having to slip the clutch to smooth out the shift.  This same "lunge" is something I really dislike about many early and lower end manumatics (and unfortunately, you don't even have the luxury of a clutch to slip with these to smooth that out).  In day to day driving, I strive for smoothness.  I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it since I've had several people comment that they either didn't realize they were riding in a car with a manual gearbox or that they couldn't tell I was shifting unless they were paying attention. 

And while I don't drive aggressively enough to cause wheel lock on the streets in good weather, I have had the wheels skid during a downshift in foul weather when I didn't match the revs before letting the clutch out, even when driving pretty gingerly due to the conditions.

[Raza]

While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.

I see it as being smooth.  I didn't even know that old racing cars were like that. 

[Raza]

Incorrect. GT-R's transmission is a DSG type box, this has a traditional, single clutch manual.

And, it doesn't seem to off the wall, most manufacturers aren't going to cover damage caused by abuse.

Then most manufacturers should build performance cars if they're not going to honor their warranty for doing something for which the car was built.

[Raza]

So...

Do you think the new car will drop used car prices on the old model or drive them up?

[MX793]

Launching a car hard is abusing it, especially doing so repeatedly. The transmission should be more robust if they're going to offer launch control, but I assure you that Ferrari or Lambo wouldn't cover a blown transmission either.

Do any of the other SMG makers offer launch control on their cars?  I know BMW left it out of their American market cars.  I believe it was left off for the very fact that they didn't want the liability of repairing the cars under warranty if something broke when launch control was used.  IMO, if Nissan wasn't willing to cover it under warranty, they should have left the feature off.  A vehicle should not have a feature that, if used properly per the manual, will damage the vehicle.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Starting to see a pattern here. Those that say they won't drive a car with an automatic are also basically saying thay drive like an old school race car on the street at all times. Especially if one can't conceive of driving any other way...

All I'm saying is with very few exceptions, I've never seen a need to do that on the street or when shifting fast on the track. Never hurt a car by not doing it, either.

Nope. I don't sidestep the clutch, but I don't let it out very slowly, either.

Not to many street situations like that, either. And autocrosses have a lot of up and down shifting very rapidly where run differences between drivers can often come down to thousandths of a second. The only time I wasted any time on extraneous blipping was in race cars with crashboxes, where you had to spend extra time doubleclutching just to get the gears to change at all.

Do it if you want to. Just don't tell me it's necessary in a street car.

It's necessary in a street car.

[Raza]

I actually used to drive without any sort of rev matching.  I got tired of the forward lunge induced by downshifting without rev matching and didn't like having to slip the clutch to smooth out the shift.  This same "lunge" is something I really dislike about many early and lower end manumatics (and unfortunately, you don't even have the luxury of a clutch to slip with these to smooth that out).  In day to day driving, I strive for smoothness.  I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it since I've had several people comment that they either didn't realize they were riding in a car with a manual gearbox or that they couldn't tell I was shifting unless they were paying attention. 

And while I don't drive aggressively enough to cause wheel lock on the streets in good weather, I have had the wheels skid during a downshift in foul weather when I didn't match the revs before letting the clutch out, even when driving pretty gingerly due to the conditions.

My E320 needed a throttle blip to smooth out the downshifts, as did my Passat.  A lot of them were like that, but it could work. 

And also, I'm still kind of new to this, but when you rev match, what exactly are you doing?  I shift into gear, let out the clutch to near the takeup point, dial in some revs, and then release the clutch fully.  Is that what I'm supposed to be doing?

[Eye of the Tiger]

My E320 needed a throttle blip to smooth out the downshifts, as did my Passat.  A lot of them were like that, but it could work. 

And also, I'm still kind of new to this, but when you rev match, what exactly are you doing?  I shift into gear, let out the clutch to near the takeup point, dial in some revs, and then release the clutch fully.  Is that what I'm supposed to be doing?

You're not even supposed to use the clutch. If you rev match correctly, you won't have to.

[MX793]

And also, I'm still kind of new to this, but when you rev match, what exactly are you doing?  I shift into gear, let out the clutch to near the takeup point, dial in some revs, and then release the clutch fully.  Is that what I'm supposed to be doing?

Yeah, that's all you need to do to avoid shift lurch.  An all-out double-clutch is unnecessary in a modern car with synchromesh.