Volkswagen unveils plans for four new vehicles

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Mazda6, TSX.

I don't know about the Mazda6 (maybe marginally), and the TSX isn't in the same class.  It's a TL, 3er, G35, C, A4 competitor.  The monthly payments between my Passat and a TSX were roughly a Honda Civic apart.

How does the TSX compete with the TL???

Anyway last time i checked the TSX came in at around 24K base price. Thats about what C&D's new jetta cost with the base I-5.

[ifcar]

TSX starts at about $27K, not $24k.

[Raza]

Mazda6, TSX.

I don't know about the Mazda6 (maybe marginally), and the TSX isn't in the same class.  It's a TL, 3er, G35, C, A4 competitor.  The monthly payments between my Passat and a TSX were roughly a Honda Civic apart.

How does the TSX compete with the TL???

Anyway last time i checked the TSX came in at around 24K base price. Thats about what C&D's new jetta cost with the base I-5.

The TSX is like 28 grand, and has a lease price a few dollars less than my E class, a car that costs almost double.  For those who don't lease, that's not an issue, but I take it into account.  They wanted roughly $215 more a month for a TSX than my Passat, which was only 3 grand cheaper (over the same period).  If the TSX had been a viable choice, I would have gotten it.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Thanks iffy, its been about a week since i was looking at acura's website.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Mazda6, TSX.

I don't know about the Mazda6 (maybe marginally), and the TSX isn't in the same class.  It's a TL, 3er, G35, C, A4 competitor.  The monthly payments between my Passat and a TSX were roughly a Honda Civic apart.

How does the TSX compete with the TL???

Anyway last time i checked the TSX came in at around 24K base price. Thats about what C&D's new jetta cost with the base I-5.

The TSX is like 28 grand, and has a lease price a few dollars less than my E class, a car that costs almost double.  For those who don't lease, that's not an issue, but I take it into account.  They wanted roughly $215 more a month for a TSX than my Passat, which was only 3 grand cheaper (over the same period).  If the TSX had been a viable choice, I would have gotten it.

Well leasing is obviously different then buying(personally i would never lease), so it is giving the cars kind of a unfare price comparison. Sticking to MSRP is probobly the best way to compare cars.

[Raza]

Mazda6, TSX.

I don't know about the Mazda6 (maybe marginally), and the TSX isn't in the same class.  It's a TL, 3er, G35, C, A4 competitor.  The monthly payments between my Passat and a TSX were roughly a Honda Civic apart.

How does the TSX compete with the TL???

Anyway last time i checked the TSX came in at around 24K base price. Thats about what C&D's new jetta cost with the base I-5.

The TSX is like 28 grand, and has a lease price a few dollars less than my E class, a car that costs almost double.  For those who don't lease, that's not an issue, but I take it into account.  They wanted roughly $215 more a month for a TSX than my Passat, which was only 3 grand cheaper (over the same period).  If the TSX had been a viable choice, I would have gotten it.

Well leasing is obviously different then buying(personally i would never lease), so it is giving the cars kind of a unfare price comparison. Sticking to MSRP is probobly the best way to compare cars.

A lot of people lease, so it's a viable comparison.  I mean, it costs as much to lease a Town Car as it does an S500, roughly.  It's important.  

[ifcar]

Raza was explaining his personal reason for not choosing the TSX. If you're leasing, you compare lease rates rather than MSRPs.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

[Raza]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

I'm aware that the TSX has a pretty high base price, but it is fully loaded.

Boy, i'm glad i missed that comparo, sounds like a cluster f*ck.

Anyway i have a hard time believing you can get a passat for 22K that offers anywhere near the equipment that the TSX offers, but maybe i'm wrong, i don't visit dealer sights very often.

[Raza]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

I'm aware that the TSX has a pretty high base price, but it is fully loaded.

Boy, i'm glad i missed that comparo, sounds like a cluster f*ck.

Anyway i have a hard time believing you can get a passat for 22K that offers anywhere near the equipment that the TSX offers, but maybe i'm wrong, i don't visit dealer sights very often.

The window sticker won't say 22K, but you can talk it down.  I believe the sticker on my car was 25 or 26, but I think overall we got it down to 20 or 21.

[ifcar]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

Comparing the "walk-away" price of one car to the sticker price of another is clearly going to lead to a large discrepancy.  

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Well i did a quick build of a passat with the 1.8T, only options where leather and a 6 disc changer.

27,084, looking at the standard features it appears to be well appointed, i'm sure its missing a few things that the acura has but overall they are close and comparable.

a 6 speed TSX starts at 27,190.

You get 30 more HP a extra gear and better reliability in the acura for about a 106 dollars. Comparable but i'm sure the TSX would compete better(size, performance wise) with a GLS(whatever the performance model is) Jetta.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

I'm aware that the TSX has a pretty high base price, but it is fully loaded.

Boy, i'm glad i missed that comparo, sounds like a cluster f*ck.

Anyway i have a hard time believing you can get a passat for 22K that offers anywhere near the equipment that the TSX offers, but maybe i'm wrong, i don't visit dealer sights very often.

The window sticker won't say 22K, but you can talk it down.  I believe the sticker on my car was 25 or 26, but I think overall we got it down to 20 or 21.

Are you talking about leftovers from a previous year, or special deals on slow selling lot cars?

[Raza]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

Comparing the "walk-away" price of one car to the sticker price of another is clearly going to lead to a large discrepancy.

28 grand WAS the walkaway price of the TSX.  Might just be a shitty dealer, but if it were possible, my bias isn't strong enough for me to have walked away from the TSX--I'd have gotten it if they would have played ball.

[Raza]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

I'm aware that the TSX has a pretty high base price, but it is fully loaded.

Boy, i'm glad i missed that comparo, sounds like a cluster f*ck.

Anyway i have a hard time believing you can get a passat for 22K that offers anywhere near the equipment that the TSX offers, but maybe i'm wrong, i don't visit dealer sights very often.

The window sticker won't say 22K, but you can talk it down.  I believe the sticker on my car was 25 or 26, but I think overall we got it down to 20 or 21.

Are you talking about leftovers from a previous year, or special deals on slow selling lot cars?

Nope.  It was a 2004.5 that I got in August.  They went to New York to get it for me.

[ifcar]

Well i did a quick build of a passat with the 1.8T, only options where leather and a 6 disc changer.

27,084, looking at the standard features it appears to be well appointed, i'm sure its missing a few things that the acura has but overall they are close and comparable.

a 6 speed TSX starts at 27,190.

You get 30 more HP a extra gear and better reliability in the acura for about a 106 dollars. Comparable but i'm sure the TSX would compete better(size, performance wise) with a GLS(whatever the performance model is) Jetta.

Or you can compare Edmunds TMV:

Passat with those options: $25,297
TSX: $26,741

The TSX has some extra features, and the 05 Passat is currently being cleared out, but there's more of a difference than the stickers show.  

[ifcar]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

Comparing the "walk-away" price of one car to the sticker price of another is clearly going to lead to a large discrepancy.

28 grand WAS the walkaway price of the TSX.  Might just be a shitty dealer, but if it were possible, my bias isn't strong enough for me to have walked away from the TSX--I'd have gotten it if they would have played ball.

Had it just come out when you were shopping, and was the car you were looking at equipped with the nav? If not, that's a terrible price.

[Raza]

I understand that he was describing his situation and reasons.

But saying the TSX competes with the TL and G35 simply based on lease rates(which are a ripoff half the time, see raza's S500 town car comment), is a load of crap IMO.

Cars compete with eachother based on MSRP, otherwise you would see some pretty f'ed up magazine comparo's.

Well, the TSX's base price sticks it up there with the 3 box class.  28 grand?  A discerning buyer can walk away with a decent Passat for 22.  Every comparo I've seen with the TSX stacks it against cars like the C230 Sports Sedan, Saab 9-3, E46 325i, and that ludicrous 11 car comparo in which it beat the G35, 325i, IS300, C230K, Evo, and WRX in Automobile, when it was either the worst or second worst in every performance category.

Comparing the "walk-away" price of one car to the sticker price of another is clearly going to lead to a large discrepancy.

28 grand WAS the walkaway price of the TSX.  Might just be a shitty dealer, but if it were possible, my bias isn't strong enough for me to have walked away from the TSX--I'd have gotten it if they would have played ball.

Had it just come out when you were shopping, and was the car you were looking at equipped with the nav? If not, that's a terrible price.

No nav, no options.  It was a stick.  It might have been in the 27s, but I remember the lease price exactly:  $493.  My brother's E320:  $504.  My E320:  $550.  My Passat:  $285.  When I went recently with my aunt, they wanted even more (it was an auto).

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Well i did a quick build of a passat with the 1.8T, only options where leather and a 6 disc changer.

27,084, looking at the standard features it appears to be well appointed, i'm sure its missing a few things that the acura has but overall they are close and comparable.

a 6 speed TSX starts at 27,190.

You get 30 more HP a extra gear and better reliability in the acura for about a 106 dollars. Comparable but i'm sure the TSX would compete better(size, performance wise) with a GLS(whatever the performance model is) Jetta.

Or you can compare Edmunds TMV:

Passat with those options: $25,297
TSX: $26,741

The TSX has some extra features, and the 05 Passat is currently being cleared out, but there's more of a difference than the stickers show.

Still we are talking less than a 1K premium for the Acura, well worth it considering the "extra's" that come with it.

However it does sound like Raza found a crappy dealership trying to squeez its customers dry.

[Raza]

Well i did a quick build of a passat with the 1.8T, only options where leather and a 6 disc changer.

27,084, looking at the standard features it appears to be well appointed, i'm sure its missing a few things that the acura has but overall they are close and comparable.

a 6 speed TSX starts at 27,190.

You get 30 more HP a extra gear and better reliability in the acura for about a 106 dollars. Comparable but i'm sure the TSX would compete better(size, performance wise) with a GLS(whatever the performance model is) Jetta.

Or you can compare Edmunds TMV:

Passat with those options: $25,297
TSX: $26,741

The TSX has some extra features, and the 05 Passat is currently being cleared out, but there's more of a difference than the stickers show.

Still we are talking less than a 1K premium for the Acura, well worth it considering the "extra's" that come with it.

However it does sound like Raza found a crappy dealership trying to squeez its customers dry.

If that's how the prices were when I was looking, I'd be driving a TSX now.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Well you shouldn't have leased.  :D  

[Raza]

Well you shouldn't have leased.  :D

I had a budget and a timetable.  I had no choice in this matter, really.  They chose what I could buy, and I chose which of those I wanted.  And when I wanted the WRX, they gave me the Passat, my second choice.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Well you shouldn't have leased.  :D

I had a budget and a timetable.  I had no choice in this matter, really.  They chose what I could buy, and I chose which of those I wanted.  And when I wanted the WRX, they gave me the Passat, my second choice.

Was this a company vehicle or something?

[Raza]

Well you shouldn't have leased.  :D

I had a budget and a timetable.  I had no choice in this matter, really.  They chose what I could buy, and I chose which of those I wanted.  And when I wanted the WRX, they gave me the Passat, my second choice.

Was this a company vehicle or something?

It is, yes.  But it was specifically for me.  It was a reward for my largesse--giving my brother my car now (since he really wanted it and couldn't afford to lease a new one) and get one at a cut budget for roughly a year, and then get something new later.  Honestly, as much as I like the Passat, I'm really disappointed, because I know what I'm missing from the E320.  It does nothing better.  The WRX was at least faster and better handling, and a stick.  The Passat's not even a stick.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Well then maybe its good that you leased it, i almost could live with anything as long as its a stick and somewhat sporty.

So are the vehicles your looking at supposed to replace the Passat, or are you always going to have a company car.

[Raza]

Well then maybe its good that you leased it, i almost could live with anything as long as its a stick and somewhat sporty.

So are the vehicles your looking at supposed to replace the Passat, or are you always going to have a company car.

Depends on the tag.  If it's in the 10K area, I'll keep the Passat (or maybe still get rid of it and pick up a used E46 325i or something) but if we're talking 30K and above, it would replace the Passat.  If the Passat was a stick, I'd be a whole lot happier.  But I hate autos, and I hate FWD...and I drive a FWD automatic car.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

There was a guy in my area selling a 98 M3 coupe(red) for 19K, very clean and low mileage. You could kill 2 birds with one stone there.

[Raza]

There was a guy in my area selling a 98 M3 coupe(red) for 19K, very clean and low mileage. You could kill 2 birds with one stone there.

Nice.  I prefer the sedans, though, the E36 coupes weren't great looking.  And sedans have better insurance.  No point in going broke over a car that has roughly the same performance and worse looks because it's a coupe and "coupes are cool".  Plus, I don't buy red cars (cop target).  Was it stick?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

There was a guy in my area selling a 98 M3 coupe(red) for 19K, very clean and low mileage. You could kill 2 birds with one stone there.

Nice.  I prefer the sedans, though, the E36 coupes weren't great looking.  And sedans have better insurance.  No point in going broke over a car that has roughly the same performance and worse looks because it's a coupe and "coupes are cool".  Plus, I don't buy red cars (cop target).  Was it stick?

WAS IT A STICK?? WAS IT A STICK??

I wouldn't even remember it if it wasn't, i would have walked up, looked in the window and walked away.

Personally i like the coupes better(coupe anything normally looks better to me than a sedan).

The guy was nice enough to let me take it for a spin. :D

It was at a dealership but it was the managers personal vehicle.

I agree with you about the red though, beyond being a cop magnet i generally don't like red cars(silver/black/blue all look better than red).