GM may axe Saab, Saturn, Pontiac

[SVT666]

GM considers axing Saab, Saturn, Pontiac as part of bailout proposal


This isn?t the first time we?ve heard rumors about GM selling or killing off certain brands, but given the automaker?s extremely precarious situation, it sounds more possible than ever. As part of its detailed plan due to the U.S. Congress by December 2nd, GM is considering including the elimination of Saturn, Saab, Hummer and/or Pontiac as part of its strategy, according to Bloomberg.

Hummer has been up for sale since June, and we wouldn?t be surprised to see GM sell it for less than it?s worth in order to quickly raise cash.

But the possible sale or closure of Saab, Saturn, and Pontiac could come as a shock to many in the industry. Saab would almost certainly be sold off, while Saturn or Pontiac are more likely be shuttered.

The demise of Pontiac would be particularly unfortunate, considering the brand?s storied history over 82 years. Saturn, on the other hand, has only been making cars for 18 years, so its closure would come more naturally. Whether popular vehicles like the Pontiac G6 and Saturn Sky would be rebranded as Chevrolet models remains to be seen. A recent report indicates plans for a next-generation Pontiac G8 and Solstice were recently shelved.

We?re surprised to hear GM isn?t considering shedding Buick, which in many ways overlaps with Cadillac. Moreover, some observers have suggested GM could sell Buick to China?s SAIC ? a possible win-win for everyone involved. That said, it doesn?t look like this option is currently on the table.

GM?s board of directors will review the finished proposal November 30th, and it will be submitted to Congress on December 2nd. Hearings on Capitol Hill will resume December 5th, and a vote could come as soon as December 8th.

[ifcar]

The thread title and the headline have a very important difference...

[SVT666]

We?re surprised to hear GM isn?t considering shedding Buick, which in many ways overlaps with Cadillac. Moreover, some observers have suggested GM could sell Buick to China?s SAIC ? a possible win-win for everyone involved. That said, it doesn?t look like this option is currently on the table.

Why would they?  If they want to keep making money, then selling cars in China needs to be part of that, and Buick sells more cars in China then anyone.

[SVT666]

The thread title and the headline have a very important difference...

Happy now?

[rohan]

What's the source?

[dazzleman]

They clearly need to cut back on the number of brands they offer, since it increases production costs relative to sales.

I'd prefer to see them sell off Saab if need be, rather than just axe it, because Saab is a more unique product, while Pontiac and Saturn really aren't, and can be blended more easily into their existing product lines.

I'm surprised they're not killing off Buick rather than Pontiac, but I wasn't aware that so many Buicks were sold in China.  That's interesting.  Here, Buick is only for people who are 80+ years old, mostly.

[cawimmer430]

GM already axed a brand with a lot of tradition: Oldsmobile. 

Pontiac or Buick? Both have decades of history and heritage ( ) but that won't help in this case. I hardly know the finer points of the GM empire, but axing Saturn seems like a "good deal", especially if you can rebadge or sell those Saturn with Chevrolet badges. Isn't Chevrolet the GM brand "for everyone"? For the working man, for the wealthy etc.? Isn't it so?

Hummer? Was there ever a large market for these cars?

[SVT666]

They clearly need to cut back on the number of brands they offer, since it increases production costs relative to sales.

I'd prefer to see them sell off Saab if need be, rather than just axe it, because Saab is a more unique product, while Pontiac and Saturn really aren't, and can be blended more easily into their existing product lines.

Is there anything sold in the Saturn lineup that would even get a rebadge, since every car in their lineup is already a rebadge of something else?

I'm surprised they're not killing off Buick rather than Pontiac, but I wasn't aware that so many Buicks were sold in China.  That's interesting.  Here, Buick is only for people who are 80+ years old, mostly.

Yeah.  Buick is the #1 seller in China.

[hotrodalex]

Don't axe Saab, sell it off.

I would be fine with axing Saturn and Pontiac. Make the Saturn Sky into a Chevy and make the next G8 the next Impala.

[TBR]

About time.

[SVT666]

Don't axe Saab, sell it off.

I would be fine with axing Saturn and Pontiac. Make the Saturn Sky into a Chevy and make the next G8 the next Impala.

Make the Sky or Solstice a Chevy and scrap the rest.  The next G8 is probably dead anyway.

[Catman]

Pontiac and Saturn are, for the most part, redundant.  The only unique vehicle Saturn has is the Astra which is really just a rebadged Opel.  The G8 is really the only unique vehicle in the Pontiac lineup and could be rebadged as a Chevy if they kept it.  Buick could be sold in China and axed here.  One has to also wonder why GMC exists.

[MX793]

Pontiac and Saturn are, for the most part, redundant.  The only unique vehicle Saturn has is the Astra which is really just a rebadged Opel.  The G8 is really the only unique vehicle in the Pontiac lineup and could be rebadged as a Chevy if they kept it.  Buick could be sold in China and axed here.  One has to also wonder why GMC exists.

The Vue is unique in North America.  No other GM division sells a vehicle on the same platform.

[TBR]

The Vue is unique in North America.  No other GM division sells a vehicle on the same platform.

The coming redesign Equinox will fill that void.

[2o6]

Out of all three brands, Pontiac should stay. Saturn (as much as I like it) needs to go. Saab should be sold off.





GMC needs to go.

[hotrodalex]

Make the Sky or Solstice a Chevy and scrap the rest.  The next G8 is probably dead anyway.

Just rebadge a next gen Holden Commodore and make it a Chevy Impala.

[Rich]

I'll be sad to see Pontiac go, from the '77 Trans Am in Smokey and the Bandit to the '83 Trans Am in Knight Rider to the '93 and '98 Trans Ams that I love to the '93 Grand Prix LE that was my first car, I have a lot of ties to the brand. 

But oh well...

[TBR]

Out of all three brands, Pontiac should stay. Saturn (as much as I like it) needs to go. Saab should be sold off.





GMC needs to go.

Although GMC is very redundant, it is also very low cost so I see little reason to get rid of it.

[SVT666]

Although GMC is very redundant, it is also very low cost so I see little reason to get rid of it.

GMC and Chevy trucks don't share sheet metal anymore.  They used to just have different grilles, but now they have unique sheet metal too.

[Secret Chimp]

Good. I can stop raging at "we have so many cars that get over 30 mpg, more than Honda or Toyota" with "THE ENCLAVE, ACADIA, TRAVERSE AND OUTLOOK ARE ALL THE SAME GODDAMN CAR"

[TBR]

GMC and Chevy trucks don't share sheet metal anymore.  They used to just have different grilles, but now they have unique sheet metal too.

Yeah, some of it is different, but they still share more than say the G6 and the Aura.

[MX793]

The coming redesign Equinox will fill that void.

I thought the new Equinox is on a different platform from the Vue?

[TBR]

I thought the new Equinox is on a different platform from the Vue?

That's the rumor, but it should be similar in size I would think.

[2o6]

I thought the new Equinox is on a different platform from the Vue?

VUE = GM Theta I with some Theta II bits.


New Equinox = GM Theta II.

[cozmik]

While I don't like the thought of Saab being sold off, I do like it better than it getting axed all together. Though with GM's current situation, it could be for the best. The brand is mostly independent anyways, and they aren't going to be getting any money from GM here anytime soon. I don't know who would buy them though. The French maybe? Or the Chinese would I guess. Not sure what I think of that though.

[TurboDan]

While I don't like the thought of Saab being sold off, I do like it better than it getting axed all together. Though with GM's current situation, it could be for the best. The brand is mostly independent anyways, and they aren't going to be getting any money from GM here anytime soon. I don't know who would buy them though. The French maybe? Or the Chinese would I guess. Not sure what I think of that though.

Maybe the actual Saab company would want to buy them back?

[3.0L V6]

In North America, everything except Chevrolet and Cadillac should go. Worldwide, I don't know enough to comment.

[Catman]

The coming redesign Equinox will fill that void.

Correct.

[dazzleman]

Maybe the actual Saab company would want to buy them back?

They'd probably have to either attract private equity money, or float bonds or stocks on the public market in order to do that.  I'm not sure what the prospects of any of that are in the current environment.

[cozmik]

They'd probably have to either attract private equity money, or float bonds or stocks on the public market in order to do that.  I'm not sure what the prospects of any of that are in the current environment.

I imagine the actual up front costs of buying Saab would be rather low. To actually buy the brand and property GM would probably sell for very little, even just to get rid of the costs of running it day to day. It would be all the R&D and operational money that would be the issue as far as I can tell. There aren't a lot of companies out there that have that kind of money right now.

Maybe GM and Ford can spin off Saab and Volvo into a company of their own. That's probably the best scenario for the two companies. I'm not sure how much longer Ford is going to hold onto Volvo either. If they sold off much of their stake in Mazda, Volvo can't be too far behind.