A Family Sedan With Character and Class

[ifcar]

We'll find out soon enough.  

[Run Away]

So you're basing your 0-60 times off a similar car with AWD to guess the times of a FWD car?

Talk about apples to oranges.

Find times for another ~200hp FWD car that weights ~3500lbs and then make a comparison.

[TBR]

If I did that I would really be comparing apples to oranges, the A4 has the exact same engine as the Passat, an engine that has a unique torque curve that allows for excellent performance considering its numbers. With just 200hp Quattro won't make a difference, if anything it would hurt the car's numbers.  

[Run Away]

Bullshit AWD doesn't make a difference.
0-60 is all about traction.

How do you think magazines get numbers? Light turns green, slip out the clutch and then floor it?
No, they rev the shit out of it and soon as the light turns green they dump the clutch.

[TBR]

200hp in a front heavy 3600 lb car doesn't need much traction, if anything it hinders the car because it is next to impossible to get the wheels to spin.

[Run Away]

Sorry, that just rediculous.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...1&page_number=2

Take that for example.
200hp, 205tq, just like the 2.0T, and I'll bet it has the same broad torque curve being teh 3.8 pushrod engine.

It weights 3515lbs, right about what you're predicting.
"The powertrain in the SS consists of GM's deathless 3.8-liter pushrod V-6 mated with a 4T65-E GM automatic. We called the old 3800 "solid, pleasantly torquey, and nearly bulletproof" in our September 1999 road test of the Monte, and that opinion holds today. But it's no JATO unit. Despite its advantage in torque, the SS edged the Stratus by a mere 0.1 second to 60 mph, 8.6 seconds versus 8.7, and the same was true of its quarter-mile performance ? 16.6 seconds at 84 mph. Why Chevrolet doesn't offer the supercharged version of the 3800 V-6 mystifies us, but we attribute this sluggishness to mass: at 3515 pounds, the Monte was this test's fat guy."

8.6 seconds 0-60 with very similar specs as the Passat.
So you're going to tell me the 1.4 second difference between your estimate and the facts I have here are due to what?
A better auto tranny? I don't think so.

[TBR]

Well, for one, they have completely different engines and tranismissions!

[TBR]

And, the Passat definitely has better tranny and it can make a big difference.  

[Run Away]

But, they have near identical specs!

[TBR]

So what? Different engine, different car, and different transmission. The S40 T5 and A4 have similar specs (actually the spec sheets definitely favor the S40) yet the A4 is .4 seconds faster to 60.

[SJ_GTI]

Bullshit AWD doesn't make a difference.

I agree, but in the opposite direction.

The FWD A4 is faster than a Quattro A4. According to Audi the 6MT FWD A4 is 0.2 seconds faster to 60 than a 6MT Quattro A4.

In times when traction isn't an issue at all (IRT acceleration)...like 95% of the time...FWD is more efficient than 4WD.

[Run Away]

And, the Passat definitely has better tranny and it can make a big difference.

Not a 1.4 seconds differece.
THat's a lifetime in aceleration numbers.

[TBR]

And, the Passat definitely has better tranny and it can make a big difference.

Not a 1.4 seconds differece.
THat's a lifetime in aceleration numbers.

Yes, actually, it can make that much of a difference. The Passat's 6-speed automatic not only has closer ratios but also shifts much quicker.  

[TBR]

Bullshit AWD doesn't make a difference.

I agree, but in the opposite direction.

The FWD A4 is faster than a Quattro A4. According to Audi the 6MT FWD A4 is 0.2 seconds faster to 60 than a 6MT Quattro A4.

In times when traction isn't an issue at all (IRT acceleration)...like 95% of the time...FWD is more efficient than 4WD.

Finally, someone agrees with me  

[SJ_GTI]

You guys need to be careful when comparing weights that you aren' comparing curb weight (dry) to tested weight (wet). These numbers can be drastically different from car to car.

The A4 2.0T has a curb weight of 3285lbs, but the tested weight was over 3600 lbs, for instance.

[SJ_GTI]

Finally, someone agrees with me

Only because I am an Audi troll though.    

[TBR]

You guys need to be careful when comparing weights that you aren' comparing curb weight (dry) to tested weight (wet). These numbers can be drastically different from car to car.

The A4 2.0T has a curb weight of 3285lbs, but the tested weight was over 3600 lbs, for instance.

All of my numbers have been curb weights.  

[ifcar]

You guys need to be careful when comparing weights that you aren' comparing curb weight (dry) to tested weight (wet). These numbers can be drastically different from car to car.

The A4 2.0T has a curb weight of 3285lbs, but the tested weight was over 3600 lbs, for instance.

Is that 2.0T or 2.0T Quattro?

[TBR]

Probably the FWd model, that is similar to the number Edmunds had for it.

[SJ_GTI]

You guys need to be careful when comparing weights that you aren' comparing curb weight (dry) to tested weight (wet). These numbers can be drastically different from car to car.

The A4 2.0T has a curb weight of 3285lbs, but the tested weight was over 3600 lbs, for instance.

Is that 2.0T or 2.0T Quattro?

2.0T FrontTrack 6MT: 3142
2.0T Quattro 6MT: 3285
2.0T Quattro 6AT: 3329

[TBR]

Well, my numbers were all from C/D and were listed as curb weights. I don't know if they are or not, but they should at least be comparable.

[ifcar]

Yep, 8 seconds should be about right.

[TBR]

What basis do you have for that? None.

[ifcar]

I was kidding, calm down. I'm waiting for the results.

[TBR]

Estimated 0-60 times can be found here as well as curb weights (note- I suspect C/D will come close to my 3700 lb number, they must weigh cars with a full tank of gas and a passengar):
2.0T Passat manual 200hp= (6.9 sec) 0-60mph 3,305lbs
2.0T Passat auto 200hp= (7.4 sec) 0-60mph 3,344lbs

The numbers are also likely conservative.

[ifcar]

I thought those were the VW-Vortex numbers "awaiting confirmation".

[TBR]

Thats where they are I got them, but I figured VWvortex got them from VW. At least the curb weights are likely right .

[Raza]

That's not bad at all...looks a lot better than the first few pictues I saw of it.

[Shane]

The Passat really defined this category, changed the way family sedans were preceived.  I really like this car.  

[giant_mtb]

I think it looks too similar to an Audi, but that isn't to say it's ugly.