?Demotorization? of youth plaguing Japanese auto sales

[dazzleman]

Public transportation works best in densely populated areas.  While Japan is densely populated, much if the US is not, and that's the main reason public transportation isn't as popular here as in Japan or Europe.  Americans are a product of their environment, and public transportation can only be substandard in suburban areas and completely infeasible in rural areas.

[L. ed foote]

All in all, I preferred public transport, but recognized that I was giving some control and comfort in exchange for saving some money and stress. I sometimes see that we in the US want to have our cake and eat it too.

And in the States, we can :)

But it depending on where I want to go dictates whether I take mass transit or drive.  As you pointed out, each have their pros and cons.

When I was in Peru, I've done buses, micros, mototaxis and taxis.  I've done a little bit of driving, but it seems that drivers out there play hard and fast with the rules, and I don't want to deal with that.

Mass transit down there is ridiculously cheap too, at least compared to here .

[dazzleman]

And in the States, we can :)

But it depending on where I want to go dictates whether I take mass transit or drive.  As you pointed out, each have their pros and cons.

When I was in Peru, I've done buses, micros, mototaxis and taxis.  I've done a little bit of driving, but it seems that drivers out there play hard and fast with the rules, and I don't want to deal with that.

Mass transit down there is ridiculously cheap too, at least compared to here .

You can't deal with drivers playing hard and fast with the rules?  Dude, are you feeling OK? 

[GoCougs]

Aren't freeway systems inherently unsustainable? After all, a city like Seattle will spend hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars annually just to maintain the road system.

Calgary's LRT system is perfectly sustainable; it runs a profit, believe it or not. But then again people actually use the C-Train.

Considering the US has had the most developed interstate system in the world for more than 50 years, I'd say they are quite sustainable. The practicalities are that state- and federal-level consumption tax on fuel makes it so.

Even the bus system in King County is heavily subsidized. But I favor it as lesser of two evils because it already exists, and it works; it's just not Mr. Fancy pants that like that of more "civilized" cities like a Paris, London or Kobe.

[hotrodalex]

Considering the US has had the most developed interstate system in the world for more than 50 years...

What about Germany?

[Soup DeVille]

What about Germany?

Germany has no 3000 mile long freeways.

[BimmerM3]

Germany has no 3000 mile long freeways.

That's because their country isn't 3000 miles wide.

[BimmerM3]

The subways. The cleanest I've seen in the US was Atlanta's, but it's pretty relatively new, so it's time will come...

NYC's subway system is far superior to Atlanta's in every way imaginable.

[Soup DeVille]

That's because their country isn't 3000 miles wide.

Not for lack of trying.

[L. ed foote]

You can't deal with drivers playing hard and fast with the rules?  Dude, are you feeling OK? 

Duude, they take it to another level down there.  There's a lot of improvisation behind the wheel in Lima.  Not something I'm used to, especially when folded in the back of a Daewoo Tico.

[L. ed foote]

Not for lack of trying.

Well played, sir!

[nickdrinkwater]

Considering the US has had the most developed interstate system in the world for more than 50 years, I'd say they are quite sustainable. The practicalities are that state- and federal-level consumption tax on fuel makes it so.

Even the bus system in King County is heavily subsidized. But I favor it as lesser of two evils because it already exists, and it works; it's just not Mr. Fancy pants that like that of more "civilized" cities like a Paris, London or Kobe.

What is fancy about the public transport in London?

[dazzleman]

Duude, they take it to another level down there.  There's a lot of improvisation behind the wheel in Lima.  Not something I'm used to, especially when folded in the back of a Daewoo Tico.

It must be pretty bad if the king of "I get a lot of tickets and I'm proud of it" is saying that drivers there play too fast and loose with the rules. 

[Soup DeVille]

It must be pretty bad if the king of "I get a lot of tickets and I'm proud of it" is saying that drivers there play too fast and loose with the rules. 

All of south America drives like madmen.

[r0tor]

Have the japanese automakers taken a look at their own product lines and wondered if that was the problem?  As in not catering to the youth segment that was created in japan for 4 cylinder turbo powered tuner cars and actually generated excitement for owning a car?

Their markets have been overwhelmed with mediocre/boring FWD econoboxes that offer little in the way of excitment.

[Rich]

WRX, Mazdaspeed 3, and EVO are all turbo 4s still sold here like they were before

along with the rest of the crew- Civic Si, Swift Sport, RX-8, Fairlady Z, S2000, MX-5,

about the only things missing are new Silvias, Eclipse AWD turbos, and performance Celicas

[r0tor]

WRX, Mazdaspeed 3, and EVO are all turbo 4s still sold here like they were before

along with the rest of the crew- Civic Si, Swift Sport, RX-8, Fairlady Z, S2000, MX-5,

all of which are alot more boring and less "tuner friendly" then their distant relatives (ok, except maybe the MS3)

[GoCougs]

Have the japanese automakers taken a look at their own product lines and wondered if that was the problem?  As in not catering to the youth segment that was created in japan for 4 cylinder turbo powered tuner cars and actually generated excitement for owning a car?

Their markets have been overwhelmed with mediocre/boring FWD econoboxes that offer little in the way of excitment.

Just as with here, the performance stuff is a relatively tiny portion of the market.

IMO there are many factors not related to product that explain it - Japan population growth is flat, owning a car is becoming more expensive (taxes) and life in general is becoming more expensive, the economy has been flat for at least a decade, there is ever-expanding public transportation, and it is customary (or at least fairly common) for children to live at home until marriage or live in employer-subsidized/provided housing.

Of the twenty-somethings I work with in Japan, NONE of them, nor their friends, own cars. They rely on scooters/motorbikes, bicycles, their parents' cars or public transportation. I'd say half don't even have a driver's license.

[2o6]

Have the japanese automakers taken a look at their own product lines and wondered if that was the problem?  As in not catering to the youth segment that was created in japan for 4 cylinder turbo powered tuner cars and actually generated excitement for owning a car?

Their markets have been overwhelmed with mediocre/boring FWD econoboxes that offer little in the way of excitment.

Really now? The Kei market is the largest market in Japan. Yes a car is nice, but WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO PUT IT?


Besides, there are more sport versions of cars over there. Their product is fine.

[r0tor]

Really now? The Kei market is the largest market in Japan. Yes a car is nice, but WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO PUT IT?


Besides, there are more sport versions of cars over there. Their product is fine.

people are not going to make many sacrficies to own a frikkin Kei car...

[NomisR]

Really now? The Kei market is the largest market in Japan. Yes a car is nice, but WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO PUT IT?


Besides, there are more sport versions of cars over there. Their product is fine.

Kei car is still a Kei car.. a sporty Kei car is still a Kei car, it's not going to draw a lot of excitement from anyone.  Therefore, less enthusiasts...

[2o6]

people are not going to make many sacrficies to own a frikkin Kei car...

The point is, there is nowhere to park a car. Running a car, parking it, and other fees and maintenance is just too much of a hassle.

Kei car is still a Kei car.. a sporty Kei car is still a Kei car, it's not going to draw a lot of excitement from anyone.  Therefore, less enthusiasts...

Beat, Copen, Cappuccino, many other sporty keis. There aren't that many enthusiasts here anyways.

[r0tor]

The point is, there is nowhere to park a car. Running a car, parking it, and other fees and maintenance is just too much of a hassle.

The other point is perhaps people would do what it takes if at the end they actually had the reward of a nice car to show for it and not a crapbox

[2o6]

The other point is perhaps people would do what it takes if at the end they actually had the reward of a nice car to show for it and not a crapbox

I'm pretty sure people aren't aspiring to own "crapboxes". The quality of cars is much higher than here. Besides, people can't "do what It takes" to have a car if there isn't  a place to put it.

[GoCougs]

I'm pretty sure people aren't aspiring to own "crapboxes". The quality of cars is much higher than here. Besides, people can't "do what It takes" to have a car if there isn't  a place to put it.

Higher quality? The average newer car in Japan is somewhere in capability between a Yaris and a Civic. Decent, but far less capable and far less contented than the average newer car in the US.

[L. ed foote]

Higher quality? The average newer car in Japan is somewhere in capability between a Yaris and a Civic. Decent, but far less capable and far less contented than the average newer car in the US.

Regardless, I don't see someone going through a hassle of ownership, to "do what it takes" just because they want a nice car.

[L. ed foote]

It must be pretty bad if the king of "I get a lot of tickets and I'm proud of it" is saying that drivers there play too fast and loose with the rules. 

[Raza]

Looks like The Fast and the Furious 5 should be in Japan again.