Saturn readying eco-friendly Green Line

[BMWDave]

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Saturn readying eco-friendly Green Line, new sport wagon to be called Outlook
DALE JEWETT | Automotive News
Posted Date: 8/3/05
TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. -- Saturn is positioning itself as an eco-friendly brand starting next year with at least two models planned. The vehicles will be called Green Line.

The first, a version of the Saturn Vue SUV equipped with a fuel-saving starter/generator, goes on sale next summer as a 2007 model, says Jill Lajdziak, Saturn general manager. The starter/generator system will save fuel by shutting down the engine when the vehicle stops.

?Environmental friendliness has been a core value of Saturn, and will be an important part of its future,? Lajdziak said Tuesday at the Management Briefing Seminars. She did not name the other Green Line vehicles.

The Green Line Saturns contrasts to the brand?s high-performance offerings, marketed as the Red Line Ion and Red Line Vue.

Saturn will also introduce a sport wagon for the 2007 model year that will be called the Outlook. A mid-sized sedan that arrives next summer will retain the Aura name used on the concept car last January, Lajdziak said.

Those vehicles, along with the arrival of the Sky roadster that arrives in showrooms early next year, will double the number of models in Saturn?s lineup.

The new models now give Saturn the right products to go with its success in marketing and delivering a pleasant retail experience, Lajdziak said.

That?s why the Sky roadster is being launched first. ?It?s the fastest way we can change the perception of our product,? Lajdziak said. ?It sets the design direction for the rest of our lineup.?

The Outlook will have seating for up to eight passengers in three rows, and the interior space of a full-sized SUV, Lajdziak said.

The Outlook will use General Motors? Lambda vehicle architecture, which can be set up for front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive, according to the Automotive News Future Product series.

[ifcar]

Perhaps the Outlook can suitably replace the Relay, if it does prove to be roomy enough inside while still being relatively inexpensive and fuel efficient.

[bobwill]

I've heard about this.  The greenlines will be based around vehicles with GM's BAS mild-hybrid system.  I drove a Silverado Hybrid at Autoshow in Motion, and was not impressed with the performance of the system.  I don't doubt that it works, but it's a bit rough around the edges.  That said, it should lead to some of the cheapest hybrids you can buy, as the system costs next to nothing in comparison to the rest of the vehicle.

I think Saturn's marketing department must be in New York, because their sales brochures are going to seem like NY Subway maps before too long. :D

[ifcar]

What did you think was rough about the Silverado Hybrid? I couldn't tell any difference between it and the standard Silverado, it's problem is that there's very little mpg gain.

[GMPenguin]

No pics? <_<

[bobwill]

What did you think was rough about the Silverado Hybrid? I couldn't tell any difference between it and the standard Silverado, it's problem is that there's very little mpg gain.

The transition between having the motor off, and it kicking back in seemed to cause it to lurch when taking off, like if you do a poor job releasing a clutch.

[ifcar]

It operated smoothly for me, perhaps you put your foot down harder? There was only one Silverado Hybrid there, so unless it broke between the time I drove it and you drove it, it should have felt the same. <_<

[bobwill]

Other factors would be, we had less than a minute driving time in the vehicle there, I expected the transition to be perfectly seemless, was put off by the fact that it wasn't, and never had much of a chance to play with it.
I took those cars through the courses a bit faster than most that day.  I remember the first car I drove was a base model Cobalt with a manual, and I finished the course right on the bumper of the Pontiac GTO that had started before me. :D
I was actually quite proud of that.  So, I was probably a bit harder on the throttle, and then letting it coast at idle(thus allowing the engine to be shut off) more than you were.

[ifcar]

That would make a difference.

And that was YOU on my tail that whole time. What's your hurry, couldn't wait to get out of that Cobalt? :P

[bobwill]

That would make a difference.

And that was YOU on my tail that whole time. What's your hurry, couldn't wait to get out of that Cobalt? :P

What can I say, you go to track events like that to me it seems like it's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. :D

[ifcar]

The faster you go, the less time you get to enjoy the car.

[bobwill]

The faster you go, the less time you get to enjoy the car.

That's the catch-22 isn't it, people who like to drive fast don't get to drive for very long because they drive fast.  People who don't like to drive at all probably drive slowly, meaning they have to spend more of their day driving. :D

[ifcar]

:D

[TBR]

I have to wonder how useful the starter/generator deal will be, people rarely are at a complete stop.

[giant_mtb]

I have to wonder how useful the starter/generator deal will be, people rarely are at a complete stop.

Yeah really...

[ifcar]

I have to wonder how useful the starter/generator deal will be, people rarely are at a complete stop.

I don't have to wonder, according to all sources fuel economy is only up by 1 or 2 mpg.  

[bobwill]

From what I observed, it will kill the engine any time you have your foot completely off of the gas pedal.  So, you don't need to be completely stopped to get some benefit.
The place you have to wonder is, you get a 1-2 mpg gain in a vehicle that only gets about 15mpg to begin with.  Trying to keep it simple, 1mpg over 15 would be 20%.  So, if you apply this to a vehicle would you get the 1mpg benefit or would you see something closer to the 20%, which would be about 6mpg benefit?


D'oh - should be if you apply this to a vehicle that gets 30mpg, would get the 1mpg benefit....

[ifcar]

Perhaps, but 6 mpg still isn't enough for a $2,500 price tag without the benefit of increased power (like the Accord or RX hybrids).

[bobwill]

man, I've been making an inordinate number of posting screwups today.  I hope I'm just tired and not just losing it. :)

[ifcar]

I read through it quickly, and it was clear enough what you meant.  

[bobwill]

The admin over at saturnfans posted an article about the Greenline.  Essentially the same thing as what's posted here, except one more sentance.
"The 2007 VUE Green Line, available in mid-2006, will yield "roughly a 10% savings in fuel economy compared with a conventional gasoline engine," according to the Detroit Free Press. The belt alternator system (BAS) will save fuel by automatically shutting down the engine when the vehicle decelerates and stops."

So, 10% increase.  So, on a vehicle that might get 25mpg normally it will only go up 2.5mpg.
Wow, I hope the rumors I've been hearing that it's only going to cost like $500 are right.
I mean, think about it, all they're doing is giving you a larger battery, and a different starter.

[ifcar]

The system costs $2,500 on the Silverado/Sierra. I certainly hope the $500 is accurate.

[bobwill]

The system costs $2,500 on the Silverado/Sierra. I certainly hope the $500 is accurate.

Yeah, but there, they're giving you an electric generator to run power tools off of.  I doubt that's a feature that will be included in a Saturn. :D

[ifcar]

That's wouldn't make a $2,000 difference though. That $500 price tag is in the "believe it when I see it" sector right now.

[bobwill]

That's wouldn't make a $2,000 difference though. That $500 price tag is in the "believe it when I see it" sector right now.

Most of the longtime posters on saturnfans have adopted that policy for everything regarding the Vue Greenline. :D

As part of its plans to grow the brand, Saturn also has announced that it will add a crossover sport van to its lineup, debuting as a 2005 model, and bring out a version of the VUE sport utility with a hybrid powertrain in 2005.

dated June 23, 2003

Green Line Will Showcase Fuel-Efficient Saturns
SaturnFans.com ? July 11, 2003

AutoWeek reports that Saturn will soon market a new line of fuel-efficient vehicles under the 'Green Line' moniker. Just as the upcoming Red Line Saturns will be built for performance, Green Line cars will be the most environmentally friendly models in Saturn's lineup. The first vehicles marketed under the Green Line label will likely be hybrid-electric versions of the 2005 VUE and the next generation L-Series midsize vehicle.

Hybrid VUE Delayed
SaturnFans.com ? November 12, 2003

General Motors recently revised its production plans for its much-touted series of hybrid electric vehicles. As a result, the Saturn VUE ? which was to be the first hybrid SUV ? will play a much smaller role in the company's plans. GM will instead add a so-called "strong hybrid" powertrain to its next-generation full-size sport-utility vehicles and pick-up trucks. The full-size vehicles are a key part of GM's strategy for using technology to increase efficiency on its most popular, high-volume products.

With the addition of the full-size truck hybrid program, the advanced hybrid system announced for the 2005 VUE earlier this year has been discontinued. That system was reportedly able to give the VUE a 50% boost in fuel economy. GM's new plan calls for the Saturn VUE to get GM's more traditional Belt Alternator Starter (BAS) hybrid system coupled to a CVT in spring of 2006. This system will get an estimated fuel-economy improvement of 12% to 15% in the VUE. The strong hybrid full-size SUVs and pick-ups, which debut in 2007, also will feature GM's Displacement on Demand cylinder deactivation technology. Together the technologies will achieve a fuel economy improvement of about 30%.

"As we've said before, GM's strategy is to go after the highest fuel consuming vehicles first," said Thomas G. Stephens, group vice president, GM Powertrain. "We believe this strong hybrid on a full-size truck will save twice as much fuel per mile as a comparable small hybrid vehicle ? with no compromise in performance or utility."

Hybrids represent the mid-term component of GM's integrated propulsion strategy. GM also has a lot of activity on short-term technologies aimed at fuel-economy improvements on the internal combustion engine, including Displacement on Demand, continuously variable transmissions, alternative fuels and clean diesels. These technologies also are important stepping-stones to GM's ultimate goal of hydrogen fuel cells.

"The advanced technology race is a marathon, not a sprint," said Larry Burns, vice president, Research & Development and Planning. "The technology we're announcing today will provide significant fuel savings on some of our most popular vehicles, without sacrificing performance."

Source: General Motors, Tennessean

Hybrid VUE Due in 2006
SaturnFans.com ? June 3, 2004

General Motors Executive Director of Hybrid Powertrains, Larry Nitz, recently talked with Automotive Industries for an article about advanced powertrains. A 42-volt belt/alternator/starter, so-called "mild hybrid" system, is slated to be introduced next year in the 2006 Saturn VUE Green Line. Nitz describes the Green Line VUE as "a very high value hybrid, as close as a hybrid could be to a bolt-on system." The simplicity of the design should help Saturn keep the cost of the vehicle down to a reasonable level. A more complex hybrid system that just recently made its debut in GM's full size pickups was a $2500 option. Automotive Industries said "the object [of GM?s mild hybrid system] is to provide 80-90 percent of the hybrid benefit at 10-20 percent of the cost." The system operates the same as any other hybrid system. GM says the system will provide more than a 10 percent boost in fuel economy over typical 4-cylinder VUE models.