Design chief: Ford cancels RWD sedan program

[SVT666]

Design chief: Ford cancels RWD sedan program

Amid a tightening budget and uncertainty surrounding demand for large vehicles, Ford has been forced to shelve plans for new rear-wheel-drive sedans, according to design chief J Mays. The news comes six months after high gas prices prompted Ford to begin re-evaluating its RWD program.

Rumors about the new platform have been circulating for the past couple of years, and the longstanding story has been the architecture would be developed in Australia, where such vehicles are particularly popular.

?We?re going down a path right now that is all about fuel efficiency, and we?ve got a lot to do about that. So we?re not talking about rear-wheel drive,? Mays told Automotive News. RWD is ?out of the cycle plan,? he added.

Mays said he is disappointed the projects have been cancelled. ?I was very excited about it,? he said, noting that market conditions ?changed right before our eyes.?

Ford and Lincoln were expected to get at least one model each. The cars were expected to draw on the Ford Interceptor and Lincoln MKR concepts, both of which were rear-wheel-drive.

[AutobahnSHO]

And what will market conditions be like in 2-10 years??

They seriously can't be making long-term decisions based on one summer of high gas prices..

[ChrisV]

And, why does RWD HAVE to be significantly worse for fuel economy than FWD? Didn't we have a bunch of RWD economy cars back in the day? Why would a 3500-4000 lb family sedan care whether it was FWD or RWD for economy's sake?

Again, I can pull 30mpg highway out of a 10 year old, 4000+ lb, 300 hp, RWD luxury sedan. That's not much worse than the best Ford or Lincoln have to offer NOW.

[3.0L V6]

In light of the Pontiac G8's lack of success, Ford is reconsidering the idea of a rear-drive sedan. They have a large front-drive platform that is certified for North American consumption and is used across multiple brands. The cost of certifying and producing such a RWD sedan - with rather limited dynamic benefits to the average consumer - probably does not justify the cost.

Also note that neither Toyota, Honda or Nissan has rear-wheel drive sedans available. Lexus and Infiniti do, I admit, but they're upscale brands.

The only competitor that has had some success at the rear-drive sedan formula is Chrysler.

[Vinsanity]

How much R&D can it take to make the Falcon LHD and re-badge it as a Mercury so that it doesn't overlap with the Taurus?

[3.0L V6]

How much R&D can it take to make the Falcon LHD and re-badge it as a Mercury so that it doesn't overlap with the Taurus?

Can it be easily converted to RHD?
Can it pass strict North American crash standards?
Can it pass emissions?
Are you importing it? Will currency swings affect profitability of the car?
Are you building it in North America? Do you have a plant available? What happens if you can't sell enough to keep the plant going? Do you have the money to pay for the tooling?

Ford needs to be profitable at this stage. As much as I'd love to see a rear-drive Ford sedan here, I doubt it will happen given the state of the auto market. Ford needs the money to spend on the mainstream cars/trucks.

I can't say I'd buy one either - can't afford it - and many of the enthusiasts who swoon here about such a car proabably can't either.

[MX793]

How much R&D can it take to make the Falcon LHD and re-badge it as a Mercury so that it doesn't overlap with the Taurus?

The current Falcon platform, much like the R34 Skyline, will not accomodate an LHD conversion.  You're talking basically re-engineering the platform to get LHD.

[Vinsanity]

Ford needs the money to spend on the mainstream cars/trucks.

The Falcon IS a mainstream vehicle

I'd buy one if it's cheaper than the Pontiac G8

[Vinsanity]

The current Falcon platform, much like the R34 Skyline, will not accomodate an LHD conversion.  You're talking basically re-engineering the platform to get LHD.

did GM have to do that with the Monaro and the Commodore?

[3.0L V6]

The Falcon IS a mainstream vehicle

I'd buy one if it's cheaper than the Pontiac G8

Would it be a mainstream vehicle here? Considering the Pontiac G8's lack of success here, it would be a niche vehicle. I can't see three companies competing in the same market niche successfully.

[MX793]

did GM have to do that with the Monaro and the Commodore?

Some RHD cars can be converted (often they are designed to be converted so they can be sold in LHD markets), others cannot.  The current Falcon was never intended for sale in LHD markets, so the capability to convert it to LHD was never a design consideration. 

The previous generation of Commodore/Monaro that the GTO was based on was actually an evolution of the old V platform (Opel/Vauxhall Omega, Caddy Catera) and was designed for both LHD and RHD applications.  The latest generation was a truly new-from-the-ground-up design, but since GM intended for the platform to be used around the world, the ability to build both LHD and RHD variants was one of the design criteria.

[Vinsanity]

Would it be a mainstream vehicle here? Considering the Pontiac G8's lack of success here, it would be a niche vehicle. I can't see three companies competing in the same market niche successfully.

meh. the biggest reason the G8 hasn't been successful is because it didn't have the "OMFG! HEMI FTW!" marketing campaign

[hotrodalex]

And, why does RWD HAVE to be significantly worse for fuel economy than FWD? Didn't we have a bunch of RWD economy cars back in the day? Why would a 3500-4000 lb family sedan care whether it was FWD or RWD for economy's sake?

Again, I can pull 30mpg highway out of a 10 year old, 4000+ lb, 300 hp, RWD luxury sedan. That's not much worse than the best Ford or Lincoln have to offer NOW.

I can 30 mpg out of my Bimmer pretty easily. And that's just regular highway driving, no gas-saving techniques involved.

[Catman]

And, why does RWD HAVE to be significantly worse for fuel economy than FWD? Didn't we have a bunch of RWD economy cars back in the day? Why would a 3500-4000 lb family sedan care whether it was FWD or RWD for economy's sake?

Again, I can pull 30mpg highway out of a 10 year old, 4000+ lb, 300 hp, RWD luxury sedan. That's not much worse than the best Ford or Lincoln have to offer NOW.

I have no idea.  I realize the drive shaft can take away a bit of efficiency but I don't get it.  From a manufacturing and packaging standpoint I can see it being easier to build but why would it use more fuel?

[AutobahnSHO]

meh I don't care whether they have any new RWD or not.

I just can't see why they don't have any sort of long-term vision. They're basing years and years of the future off of one summer of past..

[hotrodalex]

I have no idea.  I realize the drive shaft can take away a bit of efficiency but I don't get it.  From a manufacturing and packaging standpoint I can see it being easier to build but why would it use more fuel?

I think a main problem is not how efficient RWD can be, but it's image. People nowadays think RWD = performance. So if it doesn't perform like they think it should, they won't buy it. No matter how fuel efficient it is.

I bet if you made a RWD Civic (same MPG as FWD version, same performance) people wouldn't buy it. They would think it's less efficient, even though it's not, and doesn't provide extra performance.

[3.0L V6]

meh I don't care whether they have any new RWD or not.

I just can't see why they don't have any sort of long-term vision. They're basing years and years of the future off of one summer of past..

They're doing the American version of Toyota. Which they need. Where's the long-term profitability in rear-drive sedans in a mainstream brand?

Honda, Toyota and Nissan don't think there's any money in it. GM found out there isn't money in it. Chrysler is the only successful one...and even the LX cars have high fleet percentages. Sure, Chrysler may have the police market all to themselves in a few years, but can that sustain a model line?

Fuel may get expensive again. OPEC is shutting down their supply to get prices up. It would be foolish to assume fuel will be forever cheap, as the Big 3 automakers did in the 1990s.

[hotrodalex]

Sure, Chrysler may have the police market all to themselves in a few years, but can that sustain a model line?

Nope, just look at the Crown Vic.

[3.0L V6]

Nope, just look at the Crown Vic.

That may die off at some point. I don't know how much longer they can keep it up to regulations without a costly redesign.

Edit: Did you mean that police sales can not sustain a model line, or that the Crown Vic will be giving competition to the LX cars in the future?

[Catman]

Unfortunately, Ford is in no rush to redesign the CVPI and I suppose we're fortunate that it even still exists.  Most officers still prefer the CVPI because of the interior layout.  With no RWD in site for Ford it doesn't look good and I am not sure Ford wants a police verion of the new Taurus.  Even if they did I doubt many depts want FWD.

[3.0L V6]

Unfortunately, Ford is in no rush to redesign the CVPI and I suppose we're fortunate that it even still exists.  Most officers still prefer the CVPI because of the interior layout.  With no RWD in site for Ford it doesn't look good and I am not sure Ford wants a police verion of the new Taurus.  Even if they did I doubt many depts want FWD.

How big is body-on-frame construction consideration play in your department's selection of police cruiser? Most new rear-drive cars are unibody. I've heard that BOF cars take hard driving (ie. hitting cubs, PIT) better due to easy repairability. Is that still an important consideration these days?

[Byteme]

I have no idea.  I realize the drive shaft can take away a bit of efficiency but I don't get it.  From a manufacturing and packaging standpoint I can see it being easier to build but why would it use more fuel?

Vehicle packaging.  Generally You can get the same amount of useful interior and luggage space in a smaller and lighter front wheel drive vehicle than in a rear wheel drive.  One might argue that with special alloys, lots of design time etc, one could make a comparable rwd vehicle just as space and weight efficient but that involves extra cost.

[Byteme]

meh I don't care whether they have any new RWD or not.

I just can't see why they don't have any sort of long-term vision. They're basing years and years of the future off of one summer of past..

Rest assured that the probability of gasoline going up in price far exceeds the probability of it staying where it is or going lower.

[Catman]

How big is body-on-frame construction consideration play in your department's selection of police cruiser? Most new rear-drive cars are unibody. I've heard that BOF cars take hard driving (ie. hitting cubs, PIT) better due to easy repairability. Is that still an important consideration these days?

Not really.  We really only have two choices, the CVPI and the Charger.  We have one Charger and most prefer the CVPI because of the interior and outward visibility even though the Charger drives better.  When the car is your office for 8 hours there's more to consider than just performance.

[the Teuton]

A cop I knew said the Caprice 9C1 was a better car.  Was he right?

[Catman]

A cop I knew said the Caprice 9C1 was a better car.  Was he right?

In it's day they were pretty fast and very roomy.  Not real sure about quality though.

[Colin]

Surely there are 2 things being mixed up here?

High gas prices caused everyone to stop and think about the type of cars they were going to make (and hopefully sell)........ ever larger Suddenly Unloved Vehicles appeared not to be the answer.

And now, after the financial challenges of the past 4 months, it's a straight affordability question, when survival is more important than anything else. 

So, given limited funds to develop new vehicles, I assume Ford has to think very carefully about where the priorities are, and have decided that a large RWD sedan to replace the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis is not the priority. I suspect that this is a senseible decision. 

[ifcar]

Not really.  We really only have two choices, the CVPI and the Charger.  We have one Charger and most prefer the CVPI because of the interior and outward visibility even though the Charger drives better.  When the car is your office for 8 hours there's more to consider than just performance.

My local PD used primarily Luminas, now lots of Impalas. That's not an option?

I'd expect a lot of departments will also move to truck-based SUVs if RWD sedans become unavailable.

[ChrisV]

My point is, they have to develop a few all new platforms anyhow for various markets and categories. To say that one is being kiled of for fuel efficiency's sake seems a stretch, as it can't be THAT hard to develop an all new platform for either RWD or FWD that's fuel efficient.

I mean they are already filling up the interior with center tunnels that can accomodate RWD in their mainstream and small cars, (the fact that you dont' have to modify the floor pan or center tunnel to put a 5 liter V8 longitudinally driving the rear wheels on a Focus kinda proves that), so it can't be because of interior space issues. How hard would it have been to develop a platform for a car the size of the Taurus that was RWD AND fuel efficient? Weight is as much of an enemy to fuel efficiency as the slight additional driveline loss (and again, RWD cars have gotten outstanding fuel economy as well, at least as fuel efficient as modern midsizers and up).

No, fuel efficeincy as the reason for killing them seems to be fallacious.

[Atomic]

And what will market conditions be like in 2-10 years??

They seriously can't be making long-term decisions based on one summer of high gas prices..

you are absolutely correct! i am and always have been against an "all or nothing" approach. buyers need choice, in my strong opinion. it amazes me how these over priced ceo's and board members keep having these knee jerk reactions -- always seemingly fueled (or initiated) by the media!