Do you believe in man-made global warming?

[giant_mtb]

So, with all the global warming topics that have been coming up on General, I felt like making a poll, just to see what the standards are.

[the Teuton]

I think it's natural, but obviously carbon does accelerate it a little.

I don't think Al Gore is an expert on it, though, and I don't think we're going to feel Mother Nature's wrath anytime soon.

[SVT666]

I think it's natural, but obviously carbon does accelerate it a little.

That's even being disputed by many reputable scientists and climatologists.  There is plenty of evidence that indicates the CO2 levels rise after the warming has occurred.  Besides, carbon dioxide makes up only 0.3% of the earth's atmosphere.  Any increase in that is so minute it can't possibly make a difference.

I don't think Al Gore is an expert on it, though, and I don't think we're going to feel Mother Nature's wrath anytime soon.

Al Gore is a fucking hack and opportunist.

[93JC]

I think we contribute to it, I think burning fossils fuels at the rate we do is inherently unhealthy for us (US, not 'Mother Nature'), and I don't think pollution of any sort is 'good'.

That said I don't think there's much we can do. Legislating away CO2 and killing our economy in the process won't stop it and will make us all miserable in the process: I don't know why so many people are so gung-ho about this way of 'fixing' it.

[SVT666]

Besides the earth has been cooling now for at least 4 years and according to a climatologist I heard on the radio 18 months ago, then greenies will be screaming about Global Cooling in the next 10 years.

[SVT666]

I think we contribute to it, I think burning fossils fuels at the rate we do is inherently unhealthy for us (US, not 'Mother Nature'), and I don't think pollution of any sort is 'good'.

That said I don't think there's much we can do. Legislating away CO2 and killing our economy in the process won't stop it and will make us all miserable in the process: I don't know why so many people are so gung-ho about this way of 'fixing' it.

Pollution is a problem.  Global Warming is not.

[NomisR]

I think any climate change, is natural.  We should cut down on the pollution and that's it.  But like someone said in the other thread, it's funny how Europeans considers US a big polluter, yet they need to modify their cars to meet US emissions requirements. 

[the Teuton]

It should be mentioned that our planet is always changing.  When the first "humans" showed up, our atmosphere had a lot more methane in it compared to now.

[FoMoJo]

I think it's natural, but obviously carbon does accelerate it a little.

I don't think Al Gore is an expert on it, though, and I don't think we're going to feel Mother Nature's wrath anytime soon.

That, pretty much, sums it up for me as well.

The Al Gores and S. Fred Singers only serve to perpetuate the argument and take the focus off the science; where the real answers are.

The only real question is...How much, if any, does the effect of man releasing, into the atmosphere, the pollutants arising from the burning of fossil fuels since the industrial revolution, and releasing other man-made contaminants which are new to the atmosphere, have on climate change?  The answers can be very little, not much, we can live with it, a lot or too much.  We know the danger of many man-made contaminants and waste being dumped into the air, seas and soil and, in many cases, have taken measures to lessen the danger and impact. 

As for releasing these additional man-made greenhouse gases and other new gases, apart from the natural processes, into the atmosphere and whether it has a potential to overload the natural cycle, I believe it's a valid concern which must be carefully examined and monitored and I tend to err on the cautious side until the findings are indisputable.  To simply say "no I don't believe it so I'm not going to do anything about it" seems rather foolish in light of the great number of research results which indicate otherwise.  Politics cannot determine the answer, only science can and I'm glad they're looking into it.

[Soup DeVille]

You need an "I don't know" answer.

[giant_mtb]

I find that I do many things that lots of people would say "help prevent global warming", but really I'm just conserving resources and lessening pollution.  Turning off power strips at night, using LED lights in my room, turning off the speakers when I'm done, always turning off the lights...they're all things that global warming nuts will assume I'm doing because I'm trying to prevent my oh em gee carbon emissions, when really I'm just conservative and don't like waste.

[Soup DeVille]

I find that I do many things that lots of people would say "help prevent global warming", but really I'm just conserving resources and lessening pollution.  Turning off power strips at night, using LED lights in my room, turning off the speakers when I'm done, always turning off the lights...they're all things that global warming nuts will assume I'm doing because I'm trying to prevent my oh em gee carbon emissions, when really I'm just conservative and don't like waste.

I think that minimizing waste is a sensible step for any number of reasons, whether or not GW is real or imaginary.

[93JC]

Stuff like turning off the lights isn't just supposedly good for the planet: it's lighter on the pocketbook!

People need short-term incentive to 'prevent global warming', and saving money is a great one. Taxing the crap out of us is a bad one, but for some reason a lot of people think it will work better.

[giant_mtb]

I think that minimizing waste is a sensible step for any number of reasons, whether or not GW is real or imaginary.

Precisely...I just don't ever want to be classified as a global warming nut because of what I do to conserve.

[NomisR]

Stuff like turning off the lights isn't just supposedly good for the planet: it's lighter on the pocketbook!

People need short-term incentive to 'prevent global warming', and saving money is a great one. Taxing the crap out of us is a bad one, but for some reason a lot of people think it will work better.

No way, taxiing people and government intervention is the only way to get anything done, I thought we know this by now..

[Rupert]

That's even being disputed by many reputable scientists and climatologists.  There is plenty of evidence that indicates the CO2 levels rise after the warming has occurred.  Besides, carbon dioxide makes up only 0.3% of the earth's atmosphere.  Any increase in that is so minute it can't possibly make a difference.
Al Gore is a fucking hack and opportunist.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that CO₂ is the only greenhouse gas. That would mean that a slight increase in the % CO₂ in the atmosphere, say to 0.35 %, is very large compared to the normal 0.30 %, and would have a significant effect. It's sensitive because it's low.

Notice, no further conclusions are drawn, so quell the flames, guys.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Blah. CO2 is nothing compared to the methane trapped in the arctic permafrost. We all ded.

[280Z Turbo]

Soup and I already concluded that I can't waste electricity because I have electric heat, so I guess I don't do anything to help.

[Soup DeVille]

Soup and I already concluded that I can't waste electricity because I have electric heat, so I guess I don't do anything to help.

That's not exactly how I remember it, but , oh well, OK.

[280Z Turbo]

That's not exactly how I remember it, but , oh well, OK.

Okay, well, hot water is wasted and so are the outdoor lights, but the TV, lamps, computer, etc. are all free.

[SVT666]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that CO₂ is the only greenhouse gas. That would mean that a slight increase in the % CO₂ in the atmosphere, say to 0.35 %, is very large compared to the normal 0.30 %, and would have a significant effect. It's sensitive because it's low.

Notice, no further conclusions are drawn, so quell the flames, guys.

It's not though.  Water vapour is the single largest greenhouse gas.  Water vapour.  Not CO2.  How do you explain the evidence that the rise in CO2 follows the increase in temp?  Caused by the oceans releasing it as they warm.  It's natural and it's cyclical.  We are now in a cooling trend, and we will be for the next 20 years, after that we will go into another warming trend.  This is what's been happening forever.  Our winters are now just like they were when I was a kid.  They may even return to the way they were when my parents were kids by the time the trend turns around again.  The planet has it's own way of balancing things out.

Even if we really were warming up the way you think we are, who is to say that the current climate is the right one...or the best one?

[Rupert]

Blah blah blah. Bah. Heard that, etc.

My point is that you can't say CO₂ can't effect or affect climate change based on CO₂'s low percentage in the atmosphere. Just pointing out a scientific fallacy, which I tried to make clear when I said "for the sake of argument" and "notice, no further conclusions are drawn." You're not going to bring me into the "discussion" that we've had before, and you're not going to bait me.

[giant_mtb]

Blah blah blah. Bah. Heard that, etc.

My point is that you can't say CO₂ can't effect or affect climate change based on CO₂'s low percentage in the atmosphere. Just pointing out a scientific fallacy, which I tried to make clear when I said "for the sake of argument" and "notice, no further conclusions are drawn." You're not going to bring me into the "discussion" that we've had before, and you're not going to bait me.

[TBR]

I voted no. While it seems like we're contributing, I suspect our contribution is so minimal that it's insignificant.

[r0tor]

its all horse poop

[S204STi]

Wow, this topic hasn't been beat to death already or nuthin has it?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Wow, this topic hasn't been beat to death already or nuthin has it?

There are at least twenty-seven threads about global warming, just on this forum. Consider, for a moment, these numerous threads and how much electricity they use - electricity that is largely produced by fossil fuels which is the obvious cause of global warming all the natural disasters on the planet.  The phenomenon perpetuates itself by causing recurring global threads on internet forums that use electricity produced by fossil fuels. It is possible to care so much, that you end up doing more damage.

[280Z Turbo]

There are at least twenty-seven threads about global warming, just on this forum. Consider, for a moment, these numerous threads and how much electricity they use - electricity that is largely produced by fossil fuels which is the obvious cause of global warming all the natural disasters on the planet.  The phenomenon perpetuates itself by causing recurring global threads on internet forums that use electricity produced by fossil fuels. It is possible to care so much, that you end up doing more damage.

I think it's caused by lawn gnomes.

[Soup DeVille]

I think it's caused by lawn gnomes.

I think its not a coincidence that the rise of global warming has coincided with the decline of the lawn jockey.

[Raza]

I think its not a coincidence that the rise of global warming has coincided with the decline of the lawn jockey.

And that Travelocity gnome flies in a private jet.