Chrysler puts a bullet in the PT Cruiser

[the Teuton]

Nah, I drive it every day, while you drove a couple around a parking lot.  Whom do you think really knows more?

I'm just saying...

And no, I put probably a few hundred miles on them in total.  I drove more 3s and 5s than anything else.

Like I said, I could.  I made an awful mistake with the CosmicSaab thread.

[Byteme]

It is the only car marketed AS a chick car, and it was done way before the feminist movement, so even though it was condescending, it wasn't actually rude for it's era. And I had the Custom Royal version of that car.Even if I owned one, it would not be rude to call it a chick car (but it's a valuable collector car now).

Don't forget the mid 70's ladybird variant of the Firebird.

[dazzleman]

I'm just saying...

And no, I put probably a few hundred miles on them in total.  I drove more 3s and 5s than anything else.

Like I said, I could.  I made an awful mistake with the CosmicSaab thread.

Yes, you rained on his parade when he was all excited about his new car.  You know the old saying -- familiarity breeds contempt.  When you're on the inside of something, you see the underside of things that outsiders don't see.  But that doesn't mean that that underside is really unique.  It's sort of like the person who works in a restaurant (as I did) and sees what really goes on in the kitchen.  Stuff like that goes on in all restaurants, and as a customer, you're best off to remain ignorant of it, or else you'd never eat in a restaurant again.  Your experience with BMW is similar.

[Byteme]

Let me give you an example: Les Vipers. Do you have any respect for him (do you even know of him from C&D?). Does anyone here have respect for him?

Yeah, I respect his right for him to have his opinion, whether I disagree with him or not.

[dazzleman]

Yeah, I respect his right for him to have his opinion, whether I disagree with him or not.

Les Vipers Rules is a hateful prick who doesn't respect the right of anybody besides him to have an opinion.  That's why I don't respect him.

[the Teuton]

Yes, you rained on his parade when he was all excited about his new car.  You know the old saying -- familiarity breeds contempt.  When you're on the inside of something, you see the underside of things that outsiders don't see.  But that doesn't mean that that underside is really unique.  It's sort of like the person who works in a restaurant (as I did) and sees what really goes on in the kitchen.  Stuff like that goes on in all restaurants, and as a customer, you're best off to remain ignorant of it, or else you'd never eat in a restaurant again.  Your experience with BMW is similar.

Indeed.  How I came out of that whole situation still liking everything but the X3 and the E90 3ers is beyond me.

[ChrisV]

It is neon based. That's why it's called the PT (Platform Tall) Cruiser. The neon is on the PL (platform Low) platform.

There is no Neon in the platform. There was for the show car, but not for the production car. None of the neon suspension or drivetrain was retained from the show car to the production car, and so none of the hard points that made up the Neon platform made it to production.

[Byteme]

Les Vipers Rules is a hateful prick who doesn't respect the right of anybody besides him to have an opinion.  That's why I don't respect him.

I honestly picture an embittered physical cripple who has nothing to do but play on the internet and stir the pot when I think of LVR.  He frequently makes an ass of himself, and I respect his right to do so.

[ChrisV]

Yeah, I respect his right for him to have his opinion, whether I disagree with him or not.

I forgot, Opinion has become the new knowledge. In fact, changing an opinion on the basis of learning new knowledge is undesirable.

We could save the country a lot of money by simply doing away with all sources of knowledge...

[dazzleman]

Indeed.  How I came out of that whole situation still liking everything but the X3 and the E90 3ers is beyond me.

Good think you didn't work at a Subaru dealer.

[Byteme]

I forgot, Opinion has become the new knowledge. In fact, changing an opinion on the basis of learning new knowledge is undesirable.

How in the heck did you arrive at that statement from what I posted?

[dazzleman]

I forgot, Opinion has become the new knowledge. In fact, changing an opinion on the basis of learning new knowledge is undesirable.

We could save the country a lot of money by simply doing away with all sources of knowledge...

Actually, you're on to a big problem here.  While we all have the right to our opinions, we don't have the right to our own facts.  Facts are facts.  That has somehow been lost in our much vaunted 'information age.'  It's ironic that at a time when large amounts of information are more available than ever, we have adopted the philosophy that there is no such thing are objective facts, and that nothing any crackpot could think could ever be declared to be wrong or incorrect.

[ChrisV]

My statement would only have been rude if I'd (a) known you had a PT Cruiser, and (b) insulted you directly about it.  Neither of those was the case.

So a rude, insulting statement is only such if you know the person it's aimed at?

So, say, racist statements aren't rude, insulting, or racist if they're said by a white person at an all white gathering?

Just checking context, here. So, it's ok to make insulting statements on a public forum if you can claim ignorance of the other people that might be reading those statements...

I see.

[dazzleman]

So a rude, insulting statement is only such if you know the person it's aimed at?

So, say, racist statements aren't rude, insulting, or racist if they're said by a white person at an all white gathering?

Just checking context, here. So, it's ok to make insulting statements on a public forum if you can claim ignorance of the other people that might be reading those statements...

I see.

Calling a PT Cruiser a chick car isn't on the same level as throwing out racial insults, so let's not pretend it is.  Past history also plays a role -- if a person doesn't have a history of intentionally insulting you, you shouldn't be so quick to take offense when it wasn't intentional.

You need to get over it.  I have nothing more to say about this idiotic exchange.  And for the record, PT Cruisers have a lot more female than male buyers, so technically they are a 'chick car.'  Not that that really matters; anybody can drive whatever car they want.

[Tave]

Yes Chris, by and large, people take personal insults much more seriously than general insults, which I'm sure you know.

And as Dazzle pointed out, you need to consider the severity of the insult before you respond in kind.

For instance, "Miatas look feminine" doesn't deserve, "YOU'RE A FUCKING MORON, ROARRRR!!!!!"

By and large, the moderators on this board have worked very hard at running of the trolls, so these issues you're talking about with regards to other forums shouldn't be a problem.

[ChrisV]

How in the heck did you arrive at that statement from what I posted?

Because every Right comes with a Responsibility. Your Right to an opinion means a Responsibility to base that opinion on being well informed. if you're not well informed, then stating that opinion in a public place gives people the Right to call that opinion into question (the responsibility being that actual knowledge be preserved). It seems that lately, it's more important to uphold the right to state any damn fool opinion that pops into your head, than it is to uphold the right to call that opinion into question.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Good, these cars were stupid, i hate them.

They were poorly built unreliable POS's that only sold because they tricked old women into buying for the classic style and cute design.

EVERY one of them that i've ever seen is driven by women.

I have yet to see any enthusiast voluntarily get behind the wheel of one of these monstrosity.

[280Z Turbo]

The PT Cruiser is not a good enough car to fight over. Mediocre engine, mediocre handling, goofy styling.

[the Teuton]

The PT Turbo's engine was a pretty monstrous engine, however.

[CJ]

My friend Bailey just got a purple PT Cruiser.  It's perfect for her daily commute.

[dazzleman]

Because every Right comes with a Responsibility. Your Right to an opinion means a Responsibility to base that opinion on being well informed. if you're not well informed, then stating that opinion in a public place gives people the Right to call that opinion into question (the responsibility being that actual knowledge be preserved). It seems that lately, it's more important to uphold the right to state any damn fool opinion that pops into your head, than it is to uphold the right to call that opinion into question.

I agree with you 100%.

[dazzleman]

My friend Bailey just got a purple PT Cruiser.  It's perfect for her daily commute.

Way to pour gasoline on the fire....

[dazzleman]

Good, these cars were stupid, i hate them.

They were poorly built unreliable POS's that only sold because they tricked old women into buying for the classic style and cute design.

EVERY one of them that i've ever seen is driven by women.

I have yet to see any enthusiast voluntarily get behind the wheel of one of these monstrosity.

How do you like this one, ChrisV?

[ChrisV]

You need to get over it.  I have nothing more to say about this idiotic exchange. 

I get it, you want the right to say any stupid thing that comes into your head without being questioned.

Why do we even fucking bother coming to an automotive message board, if actual automotive knowledge isn't important to us, but saying any stupid thing we want about cars IS?

If I wanted to read moronic statements about cars, I'd just go to the C&D boards...

[Tave]

My friend Bailey just got a purple PT Cruiser.  It's perfect for her daily commute.

My friend Shannon loves her white PT Cruiser. She can't stop talking about it.

[dazzleman]

I get it, you want the right to say any stupid thing that comes into your head without being questioned.

Why do we even fucking bother coming to an automotive message board, if actual automotive knowledge isn't important to us, but saying any stupid thing we want about cars IS?

If I wanted to read moronic statements about cars, I'd just go to the C&D boards...

Now you're the one confusing facts with opinions.

[Tave]

I get it, you want the right to say any stupid thing that comes into your head without being questioned.

Why do we even fucking bother coming to an automotive message board, if actual automotive knowledge isn't important to us, but saying any stupid thing we want about cars IS?

If I wanted to read moronic statements about cars, I'd just go to the C&D boards...

No one is questioning your right to challenge someone's opinion. All that we ask is for you to use a little tact.

[2o6]

My friend Bailey just got a purple PT Cruiser.  It's perfect for her daily commute.

Was that the same one that Wrecked a Honda Fit?

[2o6]

I get it, you want the right to say any stupid thing that comes into your head without being questioned.

Why do we even fucking bother coming to an automotive message board, if actual automotive knowledge isn't important to us, but saying any stupid thing we want about cars IS?

If I wanted to read moronic statements about cars, I'd just go to the C&D boards...

Granted, I think you're being too extreme, I can see where you're coming from. Just saying "it sucks" or any derogatory comments without any reason is just stupid without anything to back it up.

[ChrisV]

How do you like this one, ChrisV?

Because, he's doing it specifically to push buttons, not just out of near total ignorance.

Fine. If you want to be a bunch of fucking 12 year olds, go right ahead.

It just makes for a few more people who are not worth listening to when it comes to cars. Wimmer's pictures from Europe are great, but there are fewer and fewer people that seem to actually know what they are talking about when it comes to cars on here.

No wonder we're going to get the government we deserve.