Consumer Reports - Perception Surveys (How moronic...)

[GoCougs]

Still. These cars exist in the Toyota lineup and should be used in the equation.

I suppose all that Prius hype is helping too. 

Yes, they should, but in the US alone in 2008 Toyota sold at least 1,100,000 Corolla, Camry, Yaris, Rav4 and Prius

Tundra and Sequoia? About 200,000. So the answer is really vehicles in the market, not models in the lineup.

As to Toyota being a joke regarding safety? Nah - in relative terms they're probably doing a better job than M-B in that they provide relatively safe vehicles at a much lower price point than M-B (at least in the US).

[cawimmer430]

As to Toyota being a joke regarding safety? Nah - in relative terms they're probably doing a better job than M-B in that they provide relatively safe vehicles at a much lower price point than M-B (at least in the US).

But how does this make them safer?


And can someone explain to me how GMC made the "green list"? 


Got to go eat now...

[MaxPower]

This is a survey about perception.  From where does perception come?  Ideas, messages, experiences.  From where do most ideas, messages, and experiences come?  Marketing!

The Prius is the single iconic car of the green motoring revolution, regardless of its actual impact on the environment.  From advertisements, celebrity endorsements, and the lack of other similar vehicles in the early stages of hybrid vehicles, Toyota easily created the perception that it, because of the Prius, was the most "green" company.  And how are GM and Ford chipping away at that distinction?  By introducing "greener" versions of their gas guzzlers with huge fanfare and marketing gimmicks.  The more ads on TV we see for hybrid Tahoes, the more we think GM is a green company, even though the hybrid Tahoe still gets relatively crappy gas mileage.

Toyota's perception of sportiness is also similarly constructed--through NASCAR, and through body kits on the Corolla-S and Camry SE.  If someone sees a Corolla that looks sporty then chances are they'll perceive it as being sporty, even if it has that anemic four-banger under the hood.

It's a perception survey, not a reality survey.  Perception and reality are not always the same thing.

[MrH]

I actually agree with a lot of this list.  This thread is just sad.  I didn't anyone could be such a blatant fan boy.

Do I get worked up everytime somebody says something bad about MB? No I don't. 

I only get annoyed when somebody makes a claim about Mercedes which is totally not true and which I can back up with facts. I am after all an MB fan and read a lot about them. I know the history and a lot of their achievements. When clueless people ignore this and go ahead and make a stupid claim, that's when I get pissed.

Like this whole BS issue about Toyotas being safer than Mercedes'. Sorry, but that pisses me off. Toyota might get their four or five stars in a crash test but they're designed to pass here. Mercedes-Benz has a whole division dedicated to safety, a safety engineering team that strives to build the safest cars on the planet. Toyota is a complete joke in this regard.

And Toyota doesn't have a safety department?  And they don't strive to make safer cars too?  How are they a joke??

I think even more frustrating than someone bad mouthing Mercedes is someone trying to speak knowledgeably about engineering when they don't have a clue of what goes on in the safety department of Toyota. 

[MaxPower]

But how does this make them safer?


And can someone explain to me how GMC made the "green list"?  .

Good and plentiful advertisements.

[Submariner]

The poll results to me are bizarre.  How on god's green earth does Mercedes, the absolute innovator of safety technology place behind Ford and Honda, two companies who have done relatively little, then place ahead of Lexus in quality.  Perhaps right now Mercedes are built better and maybe even suffer from even fewer electrical failures, but Mercedes just got off of an 8 year trip down the road of electrical fail.  Since when is the consumer that quick to forgive?

This poll IMO is worthless anyways.  If you own A Mercedes, or any high end vehicle similar to it, or are in the position to do so, chances are you're going to rank them higher than Ford or Toyota.  I would venture to say we have a case of the consumer ranking what they own above the rest, and I am willing to bet many, many more Camry owners participated than say, S550 owners.

Oh, and Lexus stylish?  Give me a break.

P.S. Wait, wait a fucking second.  How the fuck does LEXUS rank higher than JAGUAR in style?  Are we that diluted, that somehow the tacky interiors and generic Japanese exteriors exude elegance and style not matched by JAGUAR?  Category 14 WTF.

[Tave]

You guys need to calm down before you give yourselves an aneurism.

[sportyaccordy]

I remember a Toyota commercial that was going on and on about how Toyota was "working hard to magnify the positive, and reduce the negative". It's that kind of vague but relentless marketing that keeps Toyota at the top. They have people convinced a V6 Camry is sporty, when a V6 Accord makes more power, handles better etc.

[cawimmer430]

This is a survey about perception.  From where does perception come?  Ideas, messages, experiences.  From where do most ideas, messages, and experiences come?  Marketing!

The Prius is the single iconic car of the green motoring revolution, regardless of its actual impact on the environment.  From advertisements, celebrity endorsements, and the lack of other similar vehicles in the early stages of hybrid vehicles, Toyota easily created the perception that it, because of the Prius, was the most "green" company.  And how are GM and Ford chipping away at that distinction?  By introducing "greener" versions of their gas guzzlers with huge fanfare and marketing gimmicks.  The more ads on TV we see for hybrid Tahoes, the more we think GM is a green company, even though the hybrid Tahoe still gets relatively crappy gas mileage.

Toyota's perception of sportiness is also similarly constructed--through NASCAR, and through body kits on the Corolla-S and Camry SE.  If someone sees a Corolla that looks sporty then chances are they'll perceive it as being sporty, even if it has that anemic four-banger under the hood.

It's a perception survey, not a reality survey.  Perception and reality are not always the same thing.

Great post.

[AltinD]

And can someone explain to me how GMC made the "green list"? 

What do you think the "G" in GMC stands for 

[cawimmer430]

And Toyota doesn't have a safety department?  And they don't strive to make safer cars too?  How are they a joke??

Obviously Toyota has a safety department. My point is that MB has done more for safety than other brands. Toyota was more known for building reliable and durable cars, but in terms of safety they've never enjoyed that reputation that Mercedes-Benz has. They've also not been known to strive to make the safest cars.

Furthermore Toyotas in Europe tend to get rated poorly in terms of stopping power (brakes). This also affects many Lexus products. Isn't good braking part of the safety equation?

I'm also so sick of the Lexus ads here that talk about how safe Lexus are (with systems blatantly copied from Mercedes like PRE-SAFE or active seat belts). Toyota and Lexus are marketing companies. Bullshitting people at its finest.

I think even more frustrating than someone bad mouthing Mercedes is someone trying to speak knowledgeably about engineering when they don't have a clue of what goes on in the safety department of Toyota. 

[cawimmer430]

What do you think the "G" in GMC stands for 

Guzzler? 

[SVT666]

The poll results to me are bizarre.  How on god's green earth does Mercedes, the absolute innovator of safety technology place behind Ford and Honda, two companies who have done relatively little, then place ahead of Lexus in quality.  Perhaps right now Mercedes are built better and maybe even suffer from even fewer electrical failures, but Mercedes just got off of an 8 year trip down the road of electrical fail.  Since when is the consumer that quick to forgive?

Excuse me?  Ford is one of the safety innovators.  Where do you think seatbelts, airbags, and safety glass came from?

Mercedes-Benz may have been the first in Germany to install airbags (1980), but Ford had them in cars as early as 1971, and GM in 1973.

[Byteme]

Excuse me?  Ford is one of the safety innovators.  Where do you think seatbelts, airbags, and safety glass came from?

Padded Dashes in 1957.

[Byteme]

Speaking of Mercedes and surveys here's an interesting article from CR from last October.  Note that is was from the data owners of the cars themselves provided CR.

2008 Annual Car Reliability Survey: Gas-saving models in the lead
Fuel-efficient vehicles are a very reliable segment overall, European cars are improving, and, on average, Ford continues to build the most reliable American cars. These are the key findings from Consumer Reports latest Annual Car Reliability Survey. This year we had responses on more than 1.4 million vehicles (model years 1999 to 2008) owned or leased by our subscribers.

A total of nine hybrid models for which we have sufficient data rated above average in predicted reliability, most from Japanese automakers. From the Family Cars category, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Camry Hybrid, and the Nissan Altima Hybrid, as well as the luxury Lexus GS 450h Hybrid sedan are all among the most reliable. The Lexus RX 400h and the Toyota Highlander Hybrid are among the most reliable in midsized SUVs, while the Ford Escape Hybrid and Mercury Mariner Hybrid small SUVs rated above average in predicted reliability. The Honda Civic Hybrid is also above average. In addition, conventional gas sippers such as the Honda Fit, Scion xD, Smart ForTwo, and Toyota Yaris had few problems. 

Ford?s three nameplates ? Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury ? lead the domestic automakers and continue to pull away from the rest of Detroit.  Except for some truck-based vehicles, almost all Ford products are now average or better. Excluding those, Ford?s reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers. The Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan continued to rank among the most reliable family cars. The freshened Ford Focus sedan rated above average, a vast improvement from when the new model debuted in 2000 with below-average reliability.

European automakers, particularly Mercedes-Benz, showed signs of a comeback. Six Mercedes models, including the redesigned C-Class and E-Class (V6) sedans and the ML350 SUV have improved to average reliability and are now recommended. Last year, no Mercedes models had average or better reliability and so could not be recommended.

Still, Japanese cars are the most reliable overall, leading 15 of 16 categories in Consumer Reports? predicted reliability ratings. The Scion xD has the best predicted reliability score for all new cars with about 80% fewer problems than the average model.

[cawimmer430]

Oh well, I would like to see what the Consumer Reports Perception survey will say for 2010.

Here is a potential teaser below...


Most Environmentally Friendly
1) Bugatti 73%
2) Ferrari 44%
3) Lamborghini 43%
4) Bentley 33%
5) Porsche 12%

Sporty
1) Lexus 90%
2) Toyota 89%
3) Kia 73%
4) Hyundai 72%
5) GMC!!!!

[93JC]

Toyota was more known for building reliable and durable cars, but in terms of safety they've never enjoyed that reputation that Mercedes-Benz has.

Obviously they enjoy a better reputation than Mercedes-Benz.

[Vinsanity]

Mercedes in 5th place? Mercedes blows Ford, Honda and Toyota away and is definitely even ahead of Volvo in terms of safety. Sure, Volvo is living off that perception but what the fuck are Ford, Honda and Toyota doing there? 

I can personally vouch for the Acura TL being an extremely safe car. Ford has been getting a lot of 5-star safety ratings as well, and I'm glad people seem to be noticing.

[AltinD]

I'm also so sick of the Lexus ads here that talk about how safe Lexus are (with systems blatantly copied from Mercedes like PRE-SAFE or active seat belts). Toyota and Lexus are marketing companies. Bullshitting people at its finest.

I remember a NA print ad for RX300 back in the "glory" days of C&D, bragging about how advanced the vehicle was for having rain-sensing wipers.

Even the Golf was offering that as an option back then.

[AltinD]

Oh and it was so funny the conclusion of some Brit chaps while reviewing Lexus's self-parking option: "If someone has great eye-hand coordination to be able to properly use the sytem, wouldn't need it in the first place ..."

[2o6]

What do you think the "G" in GMC stands for 

For an all truck company, their MPG's are actually quite good. That is, relative to other trucks, not cars.

[Submariner]

Excuse me?  Ford is one of the safety innovators.  Where do you think seatbelts, airbags, and safety glass came from?

Mercedes-Benz may have been the first in Germany to install airbags (1980), but Ford had them in cars as early as 1971, and GM in 1973.

ESP?
Crumple Zone?
ABS?
Brake Assist?
Collapsable steering column?
Seatbelt pre-tensioners?

And weren't seat belts developed by Volvo?

[Madman]

And weren't seat belts developed by Volvo?

Yes!  Nils Bohlin, an engineer working for Volvo, invented the three-point safety belt.  It was standard equipment in the 1958 Volvo PV544 which was the first car ever to have three-point safety belts.

As a result, EVERY car on the road today has a little bit of Volvo engineering in it!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[Submariner]

Yes!  Nils Bohlin, an engineer working for Volvo, invented the three-point safety belt.  It was standard equipment in the 1958 Volvo PV544 which was the first car ever to have three-point safety belts.

As a result, EVERY car on the road today has a little bit of Volvo engineering in it!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

Thats what I thought. 

[JWC]

Not trying to defend Mercedes, but they did refine crumple zone technology.  Honda and Toyota copied the design.

At least that is what a Mercedes rep told me when I worked at an MB dealer.

[Submariner]

Not trying to defend Mercedes, but they did refine crumple zone technology.  Honda and Toyota copied the design.

At least that is what a Mercedes rep told me when I worked at an MB dealer.

They did invent it, yes.

[YO]

what about Mercedes vs  Honda safety?

Let's be realistic here.


Mercedes-Benz RAPES Toyota in safety. That is a FACT. No other brand has really done more for safety than MB. I am not claiming this because I like MB, it's a fact. I can back up my claims too.

Mercedes-Benz has generally more favorable designs than Lexus. Lexus = sleeping pill. There is nothing stylish about their mish-mash design accumulations from different brands. A Lexus ES stylish? An LX or GX stylish? Sorry, I have to LOL at that. 

Mercedes-Benz also has many cars that are "environmentally friendly" if you want to use that term, they're just not sold in the US, so I can understand that perception therefore. But how does Toyota place so high despite selling tons of gas-guzzling SUVs? What's the difference between Toyota and Mercedes in that regard? They both sell a lot of gas-guzzlers in the US. Oh wait, Toyota has that little piece of crap called the Prius! All is forgiven! They can sell a 12 mpg V8 Landcruiser but if they sell a Prius it's all cool, bro. 

Next, Toyota and Lexus are innovative? That has to be one of the most retarded perceptions ever. BMW, Mercedes, heck even Citroen or Renault have a lot of innovations. I guess these brands don't go around advertising this - unlike Toyota and Lexus, which do this all the time (even here in Europe). Let me tell you something. Nobody here in Europe really cares if Lexus talks about how "they invented hybrids and how clean and good for the environment they are". Most people here can think a little deeper and they'll figure out that this is nothing but marketing BS.

Toyota sporty? Behind BMW and Porsche? I don't need to say anything here.


Sucks that the people surveyed here have no fucking clue about cars. That PISSES ME off. That's why I am mad.

At least it was amusing. I mean GMC is environmentally friendly, right? My neighbor drives a Prius! What a moron! I am going to go to the next GMC dealership and purchase a big block V8 Yukon Denali and I won't feel guilty about it. Why? It's good for the environment. Consumer Reports says so! 

[YO]

Acura is the ONLY brand to have every sedan a 5 X 5 star line up. Every NHTSA crash is 5 stars in every category, every car. Also all suvs are 4 X 5 star with the rollover 4 star/border line 5

Also the ENTIRE line up is a BEST PICK by the IIHS... NO manufacture comes close especially as a percentage...100% X 2 crash tests in unbeatable...

sure so and so did this in the past... for now, ACURA IS KING OF SAFETY

[Submariner]

Acura is the ONLY brand to have every sedan a 5 X 5 star line up. Every NHTSA crash is 5 stars in every category, every car. Also all suvs are 4 X 5 star with the rollover 4 star/border line 5

Also the ENTIRE line up is a BEST PICK by the IIHS... NO manufacture comes close especially as a percentage...100% X 2 crash tests in unbeatable...

sure so and so did this in the past... for now, ACURA IS KING OF SAFETY

I'd rather die in something somewhat good looking than seal my fate in one of Acura's ass ugly cars.

[ifcar]

Also the ENTIRE line up is a BEST PICK by the IIHS... NO manufacture comes close especially as a percentage...100% X 2 crash tests in unbeatable...

Subaru.