The 2009 TL... I'm starting to like...

[TBR]

http://www.hondatransmissionsettlement.com
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/results.cfm

[YO]

on funny side note... Acura service departments are panicking because they have very little warranty work... they can't survive on maintenance alone...

[TBR]

I don't think you're getting it.


Just because the transmission is a common trouble spot for the Accord, doesn't mean that it will have more transmission problems per vehicle than an Audi (or more problems in general, which we know it won't).


Let's pretend that Honda has 104 problems reported per 100 vehicles, and Audi has 170 per 100.

Now, it might be a good idea to watch the transmission on your Accord if it's identified as a trouble area, but it doesn't make it less reliable than an A4.

I am getting it.

The difference is the A4 might have trim panel or electronic related problems, but the TL has a transmission problem, which requires REPLACEMENT of the transmission, a multi-thousand dollar fix.

[TBR]

That would be less that .001% of units sold.

Except that is just a web site where owner's can report their problems so all 900,000 or so of 2001-2003 Accords aren't represented.

[Tave]

the report was on raw numbers not percentages

Exactly my point. Any large batch of vehicles is going to have problems here and there, and more than likely, those which do will share some in common. But you can't use that as evidence for the statement, "Car X is less reliable than car Y because of Z." You have to look at percentages and probability to make that claim.

[Tave]

The difference is the A4 might have trim panel or electronic related problems, but the TL has a transmission problem, which requires REPLACEMENT of the transmission, a multi-thousand dollar fix.

Now you're just making shit up.

Google "A4 transmission problems"

[TBR]

Exactly my point. Any large batch of vehicles is going to have problems here and there, and more than likely, those which do will share some in common. But you can't use that as evidence for the statement, "Car X is less reliable than car Y because of Z." You have to look at percentages and probability to make that claim.

I am sure the class action lawsuit and the NHTSA recall don't mean a thing.

I fucking give up. I have posted as much data as I can find yet you fan boys keep insisting it is "anecdotal", I don't know what you expect me to find, a list from Honda specifying how many transmission went in what cars? Because that isn't going to happen and you all know it. Evidently cars just don't have problems unless you all say so (though one of you did say so making this even more baffling).

[Tave]

The issue isn't whether or not certain Accords had transmission problems: we all know they did. But you can't extrapolate that observation to "prove" that the Accord's transmissions are less reliable than Audi's.

[Tave]

I have posted as much data as I can find yet you fan boys keep insisting it is "anecdotal",

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

The expression anecdotal evidence has two quite distinct meanings.

(1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity: the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy or untrue.

(2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example "my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99" does not disprove the proposition that "smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age". In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion.

In both cases the conclusion is unreliable; it might happen not to be untrue, but it doesn't follow from the "evidence".

I don't know what you expect me to find, a list from Honda specifying how many transmission went in what cars?

Exactly. To support the claim, "Honda transmissions are less reliable than Audi transmissions," you will need to provide statistical evidence.

Because that isn't going to happen and you all know it.

So you're just lazy? I'm sure the stats are out there if you look for them, but I'm sceptical that they will prove your assertion.

[CALL_911]

Yup, anecdotal. Oh, how Honda wishes you were right.

http://world.honda.com/news/2004/c040630.html

[Tave]

Yup, anecdotal. Oh, how Honda wishes you were right.

http://world.honda.com/news/2004/c040630.html

You really need to calm down and think about this for a second.

Once again, WE ALL KNOW THAT CERTAIN ACCORDS HAD TRANSMISSION PROBLEMS. That is a proven fact.

But even proven facts can be used as anecdotal evidence.

[CALL_911]

You really need to calm down and think about this for a second.

Once again, WE ALL KNOW THAT CERTAIN ACCORDS HAD TRANSMISSION PROBLEMS. That is a proven fact.

But even proven facts can be used as anecdotal evidence.

I'm not sure how, but if you say so.

So you're implying that the Honda recall is about as anecdotal as my claim that our own A4s have been more reliable than our TLs?

[Tave]

I'm not sure how, but if you say so.

Read the link I provided

So you're implying that the Honda recall is about as anecdotal as my claim that our own A4s have been more reliable than our TLs?

It's anecdotal in the sense that you guys are using it to "prove" the claim, "Honda transmissions are less reliable than Audi transmissions."

You can't make that assertion based soley off the number of recalled Accords. You must provide statistical evidence showing the percentage of Accords with transmission problems relative to the percentage of A4s or A6s with transmission problems.


And for the record, that is EXACTLY what I'm implying:

"the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion"

[CALL_911]

Read the link I provided

It's anecdotal in the sense that you guys are using it to "prove" the claim, "Honda transmissions are less reliable than Audi transmissions."

You can't make that assertion based soley off the number of recalled Accords. You must provide statistical evidence showing the percentage of Accords with transmission problems relative to the percentage of A4s or A6s with transmission problems.

I figured that the pure idea that Honda had to recall that many Accords would kinda show that it wasn't exactly a confined problem.

[Tave]

I figured that the pure idea that Honda had to recall that many Accords would kinda show that it wasn't exactly a confined problem.

The issue isn't whether or not Honda transmissions have failed, but whether or not they fail more often than Audi transmissions.

[GoCougs]

CALL_911 ain't a bad guy, but he's just trolling now as a diversion. He got caught up and now he's obsessing about transmissions.

[MrH]

The closest thing we can easily find to statistically significant data on the reliability of the two (which, mind you, is the argument at hand here.  The original statement claimed a new Acura would be more reliable than a new Audi) would be something like a JD Power report.

Looking at the dependability ratings, Acura ties or beats Audi is every category.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

[2o6]

Audi vs Acura now?


I was just finding facts on Honda/Acura transmission failures.

[Submariner]

I wonder though which does suffer from more transmission failures.

[MrH]

For the last 10 years the TL hasn't moved from being a mid/upper 14-sec performer (a smidge better for the Type-S). The competition has made significant strides with the IS350, G37 and 335i utterly wasting on the TL in the present day.

It's probably the best quality and most reliable of the lot, and I own the TL's seed car (Accord), but its acceleration gains have been nil for a decade.

That's the statement that originally started this debate.

Try reading the whole thread, 2o6.

[MrH]

I wonder though which does suffer from more transmission failures.

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

The world may never know...

[2o6]

Aaah!



Cougs is right.......

[Submariner]

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

The world may never know...

Fuck that stupid owl!

[YO]

not true

The closest thing we can easily find to statistically significant data on the reliability of the two (which, mind you, is the argument at hand here.  The original statement claimed a new Acura would be more reliable than a new Audi) would be something like a JD Power report.

Looking at the dependability ratings, Acura ties or beats Audi is every category.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

[Raza]

I am physically repulsed every time I see one.  The car is repugnant. 

[MrH]

not true

What's not true, and why...?

[YO]

just messin

What's not true, and why...?

[Vinsanity]

I am physically repulsed every time I see one.  The car is repugnant. 

I thought about it for a bit, and have come to realize that the new TL compared to the previous one is like that one lady who had WAYY too much plastic surgery done. Except that it's especially shameful for the car because the 04-08 TL was my favorite looking car in its class.

[YO]

still feeling better about the TL everyday I see one... looks strong and as soon as people relate the grill to Acura, their signature "look" will be instilled...

Everyone complained about Acura for being to vanilla for so long... I think they did the right thing...

I thought about it for a bit, and have come to realize that the new TL compared to the previous one is like that one lady who had WAYY too much plastic surgery done. Except that it's especially shameful for the car because the 04-08 TL was my favorite looking car in its class.

[Vinsanity]

still feeling better about the TL everyday I see one... looks strong and as soon as people relate the grill to Acura, their signature "look" will be instilled...

doesn't always work...