General Motors to eliminate Saturn brand, phase-out Pontiac

[SVT666]

General Motors to eliminate Saturn brand, phase-out Pontiac

General Motors announced at press conference Tuesday evening the closure of the Saturn brand, and a de-emphasis on Pontiac. Saturndealerships will be closed by 2011, and no new models will be introduced under the nameplate. Meanwhile, Pontiac will be phased out as a distinct division. Certain ?niche? models will still cary the Pontiac name, but they will be sold at Chevrolet dealerships.

The announcement is part of GM?s viability plan being submitted to the U.S. Congress and President Obama today. The brand pullback comes in addition to the planned sale of Hummer, and the potential spin-off of Saab. GM notes Hummer might be shut down after March 31st if a buyer for the brand is not found.

In its 20-year history, the Saturn brand has never been profitable for GM. Most auto journalists would agree Saturn?s new models are vastly improved, but for reasons possibly related to a poor brand perception, sales have not improved proportionally.

Since most of Saturn?s new cars are rebadged Opels, it?s conceivable that GM could attempt to sell certain imported Opel models under the Chevrolet name, though that is purely speculation at this point.

[2o6]

Aw man!

Well, GM does need to cut the fat. I just hope some other company (The Chinese, The French, The Italians) can buy up those excess dealers.

[Rupert]

Just when they were getting good... But it's a good move, I think.

[Catman]

As soon as GM gave up making unique vehicles for Saturn I knew it would happen.

[Catman]

Hmm

DETROIT -- Saturn dealers are planning to spin off from General Motors Corp. into a new company that will seek to sell third-party vehicles under the Saturn brand, according to Dan Januska, the owner of Saturn of Scottsdale.

The Saturn dealers have been anxious about their future after GM said it needed to restructure the brand as part of plans submitted to the federal government in December. GM released a new viability plan to the Treasury department Tuesday as it seeks more federal loans to ensure its survival.

Saturn dealers will continue to buy vehicles from GM for as long as they are produced, according to Mr. Januska, who said the brand will likely be phased out in a few years. He declined to be more specific.

"It's a good distribution network. If someone comes up with an offer, we're very open to that." GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner told a press conference. GM intends to produce new Saturns only for the current product line up which expires in 2011, according to the company's latest plan as submitted to Treasury.

Under the new plan, Mr. Januska said, Saturn dealers would be open to selling vehicles made by Indian or Chinese manufacturers that would be sold as Saturns. "There are not a whole lot of alternatives," said Mr. Januska, who is on the Saturn Dealer Council. "Someone is going to see the value of us and I don't know who it will be."

He added that the dealers would work with GM on how to structure the new entity for the next 60 days.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I remember the buzz around saturn in the early 90's. The unique(for GM) fuel efficient vehicles and the buying experience that made none car people into car people, it was a very attractive experience to the casual car buyer. I recall many stories of happy buyers and their experience with the dealers, the employees and the cars.

Then in the mid 90's GM stepped in and tried to "integrate" their "different kind of car company" into the herd. A short 10 years later saturn is on the block just moments away from having it's head fall into the basket.

Over the years i've realized that GM's biggest enemy is itself.

[Catman]

Saab can't be far behind Saturn.  I think GM should really evaluate Cadillac and Buick also.  Cadillac should be the only luxury brand.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Saab can't be far behind Saturn.  I think GM should really evaluate Cadillac and Buick also.  Cadillac should be the only luxury brand.

For some reason i see saab "retreating" back to a standalone company. I dont' know why but it seems to me they don't have to fall with GM.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I Agree that no matter what happens to GM(bankruptcy or not) there really is only room for chevrolet and cadillac. Anything else will just result in lackluster funding and brand overlap.

[S204STi]

Ugh, this is bad news for my dealership.

[Catman]

I Agree that no matter what happens to GM(bankruptcy or not) there really is only room for chevrolet and cadillac. Anything else will just result in lackluster funding and brand overlap.

I think the idea of keeping the Pontiac name alive for niche offerings is a good decision.  I don't really see that working for Buick.  I agree with you though.

[Catman]

Ugh, this is bad news for my dealership.

Saturn or Pontiac?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I think the idea of keeping the Pontiac name alive for niche offerings is a good decision.  I don't really seeing that working for Buick.  I agree with you though.

In theory yes, but in reality pontiac would just be another brand filled with compromised models. They wouldn't offer nothing that chevy or cadillac couldn't offer.

[Catman]

In theory yes, but in reality pontiac would just be another brand filled with compromised models. They wouldn't offer nothing that chevy or cadillac couldn't offer.

Right, I agree it should be eliminated.  But I think it would be good to say, import a Commodore, call it a Pontiac G8 and sell it at a Chevrolet dealer. 

[FlatBlackCaddy]

So you mean pontiac as a trim line? But really badged under chevrolet?

Sounds complicated and given pontiacs image over the last decade it would be pointless. Pontiac(to anyone under 40) evokes images of cladded up 4 cylinder cars with little to no performance image.

[S204STi]

Saturn or Pontiac?

We have a Saturn branch next door, and I work on Pontiacs which we sell in the same building, along with GMC and Buick.  So basically one bunch of techs is going to lose their jobs, and we're going to lose 1/3 of our potential future customers and service work.

[Catman]

So you mean pontiac as a trim line? But really badged under chevrolet?

Sounds complicated and given pontiacs image over the last decade it would be pointless. Pontiac(to anyone under 40) evokes images of cladded up 4 cylinder cars with little to no performance image.

Not really a trim line.  Like they said, "Niche" vehicles. 

[2o6]

I Agree that no matter what happens to GM(bankruptcy or not) there really is only room for chevrolet and cadillac. Anything else will just result in lackluster funding and brand overlap.

And Buick. China is a HUGE and ever expanding market.

[Catman]

We have a Saturn branch next door, and I work on Pontiacs which we sell in the same building, along with GMC and Buick.  So basically one bunch of techs is going to lose their jobs, and we're going to lose 1/3 of our potential future customers and service work.

Doesn't seem avoidable at this point.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

And Buick. China is a HUGE and ever expanding market.

Simple solution, Chinese buicks = cadillac USA.

Sell chevrolet/buick in china and chevrolet/cadillac in other markets. Face it, china has higher standards for buick then americans(cady buyers in particular) have for cadillac. The result would be a simple grille change and allow joint development that would result in better cadillacs for america.

[2o6]

Simple solution, Chinese buicks = cadillac USA.

Sell chevrolet/buick in china and chevrolet/cadillac in other markets. Face it, china has higher standards for buick then americans(cady buyers in particular) have for cadillac. The result would be a simple grille change and allow joint development that would result in better cadillacs for america.

Not quite. Buicks are floaty, comfortable rides. Cadillacs are Sportier.

[Catman]

Simple solution, Chinese buicks = cadillac USA.

Sell chevrolet/buick in china and chevrolet/cadillac in other markets. Face it, china has higher standards for buick then americans(cady buyers in particular) have for cadillac. The result would be a simple grille change and allow joint development that would result in better cadillacs for america.

I think the new Lacrosse would fill a void for Cadillac like the ES does for Lexus.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Not quite. Buicks are floaty, comfortable rides. Cadillacs are Sportier.

doesn't matter. My point is simple. There should only be 2 tiers to ANY market. A mainstream line and a Luxury line. If china wants "floaty" cadillacs as buicks then fine. Retune the suspension and give them a "float" ride.

[2o6]

I don't think the different marques were bad, but having every permutation of each model in each lineup is. VAG can get away with Seven (offhand) marques, but they're not huge.

Pontiac: Sporty cars, right? Then why does the G3, Torrent, G5 (non GXP) and Vibe exist?

Saturn = Opel, then why is the Aura so different? Wouldn't be cheaper to import the Insignia (Then, Vectra) and rebadge rather than creating a new model? Why is there an Outlook AND a GMC?

Buick: Why did it take you so long to specialize?

GMC: Suprisingly, I think this marque is the most Focused.

Chevrolet: It's ok here, but their small cars suck. And why is there a LAMBDA Quartet?

HUMMER = Turns a profit...........but not that big of one. Lose it, GM.

[Raza]

It's a shame about Saturn.  For never turning a profit, they seem to have fiercely loyal customers. 

Same with Saab, actually.  Though I'm sure they made a profit at least once.

And Pontiac?  That's a pretty iconic brand, man.  It'll suck to see them go.  I guess this means no Trans Am based on the new figment-of-the-imagination Camaro.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

It's a shame about Saturn.  For never turning a profit, they seem to have fiercely loyal customers. 

Same with Saab, actually.  Though I'm sure they made a profit at least once.

And Pontiac?  That's a pretty iconic brand, man.  It'll suck to see them go.  I guess this means no Trans Am based on the new figment-of-the-imagination Camaro.

It was a good start and a oppertunity for GM. If they could grasp the japanese mentality of continued incremental improvement saturn could have been one of chevrolets larges most profitable "2nd Tier" brand. Instead it tumbled into the fold and become another same but different rebadge outlet.

[Raza]

It was a good start and a oppertunity for GM. If they could grasp the japanese mentality of continued incremental improvement saturn could have been one of chevrolets larges most profitable "2nd Tier" brand. Instead it tumbled into the fold and become another same but different rebadge outlet.

It was handled fairly poorly, I agree.  What sucks the most about this is that most of the Americans (well, 2/3) were beginning to turn it around.  Then this crisis struck, and Saturn went from being viable in 5 years (although they did fuck up the Astra, stupid fucking idiots...) and everyone remembers when GM and Ford were shitty. 

[TBR]

Aw man!

Well, GM does need to cut the fat. I just hope some other company (The Chinese, The French, The Italians) can buy up those excess dealers.

Dealers are generally owned by franchisees so they will simply switch to another brand or take the opportunity to go out of business.

[the Teuton]

Saturn was an amazingly good idea done with amazingly little follow-up effort after the initial "hit" that was the SL range.

What they should have done vs. what they did:

-Not revise the SL but redesign it as a practical, world class car.  The Ion was a piss poor execution, and they knew it.

-Put more effort into making the LS better.  First, why did they just invert the letters for the midsize car?  Second, why didn't they try to make it class-leading rather than just mediocre and average?  I believe it was a case of in-house competition again.  GM couldn't let the lowly Saturn brand put out a car that was better than the almighty Intrigue.

The car didn't have the right engines, the right materials, the right price, or the right quality.

-Modernize the polymer processes.  Why were they still using the same kinds of expanding plastics on the Ion in 2003 that they used on the shitty-ass APV vans?  Technology does improve over time, you know?

-Merge Olds into Saturn rather than killing off both of their philosophies simultaneously.  Saturn seemed like the American Civic initially.  Olds, at least with the Intrigue, was becoming the American Honda.  So why did they turn Saturn all European when they decided to kill off Olds?  They answered the question no one asked.  People in the US don't buy 400,000 Passats a year.

-Marketing.  Who were they trying to attract?  In the beginning, it seemed like their target market was a hippie-dippy recent college graduate with sensible tastes.  Then, it turned into a grown up, more mature hippie-dippy with a family.  It was still marketing to younger, more pragmatic people who didn't want to buy Japanese, didn't want the cheap image of a Neon or Cavalier, and wanted something fun and frugal.  Then, they abandoned that market altogether with a "me too" GM attitude, trying to make the brand into an American VW, only sportier.  No one caught on.

The loyalty -- almost Harley-Davidson-like in its devotion -- died not with the Ion, but with the Relay.  Saturn didn't need a minivan, especially one with steel body panels.  They needed a plastic Astra with the price of a Scion xA.  Of course at GM this wasn't going to happen.

GM didn't handle the brand well at all.

[Rupert]

Harley-like? I don't think so. Maybe Toyota-like. Maybe.