BMW considers lighter, simpler, cheaper 1-Series replacement

[SVT666]

BMW considers lighter, simpler, cheaper 1-Series replacement

Last year, BMW launched its 1-Series in North America to great fanfare. The automaker?s marketing attempted to link the coupe and convertible to its highly-vaunted 2002 of the late-1960s through mid-1970s, but potential buyers expecting simple, cost-effective sportiness were less than impressed by the 1-Series? MSRP and equipment levels. Apparently, the automaker is considering ?going back to basics? for the next-generation 1.

According to Car, the next-generation 1, due around 2011 or 2012, could include an entry-level 115i powered by a 1.3-liter engine designed to meet tax breaks - much like the 1502, a 1.5-liter variant of the -02 body sold alongside the more powerful 2002 back in the 1970s. The 115i, confusingly powered by a 1.3-liter, will crank out about 105-horsepower. Don?t expect it to make the journey to North America unless fuel pricesreally spike or a displacement tax is enacted. We might, however, get the 120i, a 2.0-liter turbo-four putting out 218-horsepower, as our entry-level 1.

With any luck, these changes will drop prices by a couple thousand dollars, though of course BMW is mum on future product plans.

A Supersport variant of the 1-Series, offering M-level performance, will be available at the opposite end of the spectrum. It?ll get round headlamps - like the ?02s - and a twin-turbo four-cylinder gas engine, probably pumping out about 300-horsepower.

Do expect that model to cross the Atlantic, but don?t expect an M1 badge. BMW considers that one sacred.

[Submariner]

If BMW really shaved the weight, it would be very, very tempting. 

[the Teuton]

The cheapest 1er I've ever seen was $32k.  In 2002, you could get yourself a pretty nice 325i for that kind of money. 

As someone who loves the 1er and finds such a small car to be perfect for a future new car, something cheaper with cloth seats (please, German plaid!), no sunroof, a manual transmission, and a sub-$25k price tag would be perfect for me.

[S204STi]

This is a good idea, as it is there is no financial reason to buy a 1 series over a 3 series (or at least not much of one).

[Laconian]

What's the source on this? Is this all Car's speculation? I doubt BMW will ever go back to its roots -- their formula is working well for them right now and a "cheap" BMW would turn off their present badge-conscious clientele.

[cawimmer430]

I really don't know what BMW wants to simplify in the 1-Series, which already is the most simplistic and bare car in the entire BMW lineup. I know, I am currently driving one!

[Raza]

The cheapest 1er I've ever seen was $32k.  In 2002, you could get yourself a pretty nice 325i for that kind of money. 

As someone who loves the 1er and finds such a small car to be perfect for a future new car, something cheaper with cloth seats (please, German plaid!), no sunroof, a manual transmission, and a sub-$25k price tag would be perfect for me.

In the 1970s, Jags were like 3 grand!  You can't even buy a certified Kia for that much!

[Speed_Racer]

What a novel idea: making a cheap, light, fun sports car. Whoulda thunk.

[hotrodalex]

Dear BMW,

Do it.

Regards,
hotrodalex

[sportyaccordy]

Base it on the freaking Z4 chassis and yes, throw in the 2.0 turbo 4 banger. Genesis what?

[NomisR]

What a novel idea: making a cheap, light, fun sports car. Whoulda thunk.

Not the Germans.  They like to make things as complicated as possible.

[NomisR]

I really don't know what BMW wants to simplify in the 1-Series, which already is the most simplistic and bare car in the entire BMW lineup. I know, I am currently driving one!

I think only in Deutschland, we don't get barebones BMW here, or any European car for that matter, almost everything is loaded to the hilt. 

Only car in Americaland you can find that's barebones are rentals, and even then, the standard equipment is probably better than your BMW.

[280Z Turbo]

Dear BMW,

Do it.

Regards,
hotrodalex

I think they would be better off making an SUV version of the Z4. They could call it a Urban Sports Activity Roadster.

[NomisR]

I think they would be better off making an SUV version of the Z4. They could call it a Urban Sports Activity Roadster.

BMW X4 and X1

[MX793]

I really don't know what BMW wants to simplify in the 1-Series, which already is the most simplistic and bare car in the entire BMW lineup. I know, I am currently driving one!

US models aren't nearly as bare bones as European ones.

[sandertheshark]

I really don't know what BMW wants to simplify in the 1-Series, which already is the most simplistic and bare car in the entire BMW lineup. I know, I am currently driving one!

They should just sell the stripped-out 118i here.  It wouldn't "connect" to the ol' 2002 but maybe with the E36 318ti.

Unfortunately BMW of North America can't comprehend how the Ultimate Driving Machine could possibly exist without about five thousand dollars of standard features, and the sales guys will still try and convince you need iDrive.

[the Teuton]

With the high value of the Euro, it doesn't make sense to sell the stripped versions here.  It'd be a loss leader like the first generation MINI.

Thought I really do want a BMW with plaid cloth sport seats.

[cawimmer430]

I was actually talking about the technology and weight of the 1-Series. It's basically a very simple car (in this day and age). Weight-wise it isn't too heavy either.

The only extras our 118i has is the automatic transmission and nicer wheels. You can basically live with a stripper 1-Series (not sure about Americans). I also have a ? 300 portable navigation system from Garmin for the 118i. The salesman at BMW recommended it - not the more expensive (? 2,500) BMW navigation system.

[MX793]

I was actually talking about the technology and weight of the 1-Series. It's basically a very simple car (in this day and age). Weight-wise it isn't too heavy either.

The base US 1 series is the 128i.  It's got power everything (seats may be manual), heated mirrors, a sunroof, cruise control, dual zone auto climate control and a 10 speaker stereo.  It's anything but a simple and basic car.  It also weighs 3250 lbs.  For a car the size of a Focus, that's heavy.  My car is taller, wider, and a good bit longer and weighs 500 lbs less.

[cawimmer430]

The base US 1 series is the 128i.  It's got power everything (seats may be manual), heated mirrors, a sunroof, cruise control, dual zone auto climate control and a 10 speaker stereo.  It's anything but a simple and basic car. 

I don't have power seats, heated mirrors, dual zone climate control and a 10-speaker stereo. And it doesn't bother me.

Cruise control is standard here. Aside from the automatic we also paid for the sunroof and heated seats (front only).

It also weighs 3250 lbs.  For a car the size of a Focus, that's heavy.  My car is taller, wider, and a good bit longer and weighs 500 lbs less.

3250 lbs is 1,474 kg (1.4 tons basically), which can be considered "light" for a car like the 1-Series in this day and age. A Mercedes A-Class A200 Turbo (closest thing to a 128i) weighs 1,305 kg. A B200 Turbo 1,370 (M/T) / 1,405 (A/T).

[sportyaccordy]

With the high value of the Euro, it doesn't make sense to sell the stripped versions here.  It'd be a loss leader like the first generation MINI.

Thought I really do want a BMW with plaid cloth sport seats.

Dynamically, I wonder whether a 200HP 1 series would be that much better than a well sorted Civic Si.

[MX793]

I don't have power seats, heated mirrors, dual zone climate control and a 10-speaker stereo. And it doesn't bother me.

Cruise control is standard here. Aside from the automatic we also paid for the sunroof and heated seats (front only).


3250 lbs is 1,474 kg (1.4 tons basically), which can be considered "light" for a car like the 1-Series in this day and age. A Mercedes A-Class A200 Turbo (closest thing to a 128i) weighs 1,305 kg. A B200 Turbo 1,370 (M/T) / 1,405 (A/T).

Point is, BMW doesn't offer a "simple and basic" car in America.  The 1 series is as simple and basic as BMW gets here, and it's doesn't really qualify for either adjective.

And the 1-series is heavy for its size.  Maybe it's not heavy compared to German competitors, but the argument can be made that many German cars are heavy for their size.  In fact, I think the only cars in that size class that are heavier are the AWD rally rockets like the STi and Evo.

[cawimmer430]

Point is, BMW doesn't offer a "simple and basic" car in America.  The 1 series is as simple and basic as BMW gets here, and it's doesn't really qualify for either adjective.

And the 1-series is heavy for its size.  Maybe it's not heavy compared to German competitors, but the argument can be made that many German cars are heavy for their size.  In fact, I think the only cars in that size class that are heavier are the AWD rally rockets like the STi and Evo.

Yeah, I understand that luxury cars need to come with this and that in the US. It's just that here in Europe people who shop for luxury cars tend to want only things in their car that they will use or what would help the resale value later on. 

[SVT666]

Yeah, I understand that luxury cars need to come with this and that in the US. It's just that here in Europe people who shop for luxury cars tend to want only things in their car that they will use or what would help the resale value later on. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but stripped BMW's aren't considered luxury cars in Europe...but if they are, then you guys need to revisit your definition of "luxury".

[NomisR]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but stripped BMW's aren't considered luxury cars in Europe...but if they are, then you guys need to revisit your definition of "luxury".

Well, aren't there E Classes being used as taxis?  So BMW and Mercedes maybe are viewed the same as we view Caddy, Lincolns and Chryslers? 

[cawimmer430]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but stripped BMW's aren't considered luxury cars in Europe...but if they are, then you guys need to revisit your definition of "luxury".

They are.

Luxury here is defined first of all by the badge. The history and traditions behind it are what make a luxury brand. BMW and Mercedes? No need for words. This is the reason why I can't understand why Americans consider Lexus so "prestigious" and this is the reason why Lexus sales have been unimpressive here.

Cars like the Toyota Avalon or Hyundai Genesis, if sold here, would fail because their badges don't stand for luxury. These cars might be premium and great value for money but their badges lack appeal and they most likely will not offer the European consumer economical engines. Honda sells their Legend (Acura RL) here and it doesn't sell at all. The only ones I've seen had "Honda Dealership _______" written on their side...advertising in motion, but nobody cares. I like the Honda Legend, it's a nice car, great value and lots of features but it just lacks appeal. A thirsty 3.5 V6 is the biggest appeal killer. Such cars will find buyers, but not many. Most people will go for something with a name.


Second, the term "stripped" doesn't really apply to European luxury cars anymore. All of them have basic standard features which the modern consumer needs. Electric windows, A/C and ESP for example. These are things which still had to be specified a few years ago, not anymore. I don't know about you, but I could live with a luxury car that had these simple but useful features. All I will do is a buy a navigation system from TomTom or Garmin (etc.) and I am all set.

What differentiates the European luxury customer from the American is this: the European customer wants in their luxury car what they will need / use, the American customer wants all sorts of shit in their luxury car that they will never ever use. 

[cawimmer430]

Well, aren't there E Classes being used as taxis?  So BMW and Mercedes maybe are viewed the same as we view Caddy, Lincolns and Chryslers? 

Audi, BMW and Mercedes offer so-called "taxi packages" which are specifically suited for taxi drivers and taxi companies. The E-Class is by far the most popular taxi because it is spacious and comfortable and in E200 CDI and E220 CDI is low-maintenance and reliable.

[NomisR]

They are.

Luxury here is defined first of all by the badge. The history and traditions behind it are what make a luxury brand. BMW and Mercedes? No need for words. This is the reason why I can't understand why Americans consider Lexus so "prestigious" and this is the reason why Lexus sales have been unimpressive here.

Cars like the Toyota Avalon or Hyundai Genesis, if sold here, would fail because their badges don't stand for luxury. These cars might be premium and great value for money but their badges lack appeal and they most likely will not offer the European consumer economical engines. Honda sells their Legend (Acura RL) here and it doesn't sell at all. The only ones I've seen had "Honda Dealership _______" written on their side...advertising in motion, but nobody cares. I like the Honda Legend, it's a nice car, great value and lots of features but it just lacks appeal. A thirsty 3.5 V6 is the biggest appeal killer. Such cars will find buyers, but not many. Most people will go for something with a name.


Second, the term "stripped" doesn't really apply to European luxury cars anymore. All of them have basic standard features which the modern consumer needs. Electric windows, A/C and ESP for example. These are things which still had to be specified a few years ago, not anymore. I don't know about you, but I could live with a luxury car that had these simple but useful features. All I will do is a buy a navigation system from TomTom or Garmin (etc.) and I am all set.

What differentiates the European luxury customer from the American is this: the European customer wants in their luxury car what they will need / use, the American customer wants all sorts of shit in their luxury car that they will never ever use. 

The thing is the way we view our cars.  Europeans already views having a car as a luxury.  And having a more expensive car is just a greater luxury. 

Americans on the other hand views a car as a necessity.  You can get from point A to point B in a POS beater or a S class.  What separates them in the end is the equipment as anyone can get a used luxury brand for cheap since depreciation is steep.  Having a newer one would mean more gizmos.  And I guess Americans, and the Japanese too, likes having little gizmos in their cars.. and their phones, and their home. 

[cawimmer430]

The thing is the way we view our cars.  Europeans already views having a car as a luxury.  And having a more expensive car is just a greater luxury. 

True. Owning a car here is a luxury, any car. We're burdened with taxes, expensive gas, upcoming pollution-free-zones in more cities (Stupid politicians and their bullshit... ) and much more. The cost of owning a car here is steadily rising and rising.

Some people driving old clunkers have had to sell their cars because these won't be allowed in pollution-free-zones in the city. It's so absurd seeing people sell a 1983 Mercedes 190D because even with a KAT it doesn't fulfill the Euro emission laws while a 1982 Mercedes 190 1.8 can still be driven in those zones, provided it has KAT. This was a real problem because these people depended on their car to get to work. Stupid ass politicians...

Americans on the other hand views a car as a necessity.  You can get from point A to point B in a POS beater or a S class.  What separates them in the end is the equipment as anyone can get a used luxury brand for cheap since depreciation is steep.  Having a newer one would mean more gizmos.  And I guess Americans, and the Japanese too, likes having little gizmos in their cars.. and their phones, and their home. 

Yep, good point. 

The market for onboard gizmos has increased here, but people still tend to be "realistic" about purchasing it. Do they need it or not? That's always the question that decides.

[the Teuton]

Europeans, from what I gather, feel the most luxury when they feel involved with the process and have the utmost control whereas we feel luxury is having something done for us or being pampered.

Case-in-point:  My old German teacher in high school hated Wal-Marts and other American supermarkets because he felt he was more than able to bag his own groceries.  At ALDI, that's fine.  But here we view ALDI as seriously downmarket and low-rent.  We like chauffeurs, bag people, and people to tend to our every needs.  We're the same with our techno-laden cars.