So, shortly my car may not be California legal

[Galaxy]

Heating the car makes use of otherwise wasted heat, so you're making it more efficient.

Right, that was not 100% thought through.

However in my defence, many diesels have auxiliary heaters because the engines produce little waste heat.

[Eye of the Tiger]

They should quit beating around the bush and just ban A/C. And cars. Everyone gets a Segway.

[MX793]

Right, that was not 100% thought through.

However in my defence, many diesels have auxiliary heaters because the engines produce little waste heat.

Block heaters?  Those are to keep the engine (more importantly the fuel system) warm when parked so that the parafin in the diesel doesn't solidify and turn the fuel to gel.  Diesels produce plenty of heat.

[Galaxy]

Block heaters?  Those are to keep the engine (more importantly the fuel system) warm when parked so that the parafin in the diesel doesn't solidify and turn the fuel to gel.  Diesels produce plenty of heat.

Maybe the big diesels in commercial trucks produce enough heat. Most diesels for consumer cars use engine independent heaters because the things have gotten so efficient. VW uses electric furnaces from Webasto, unless one orders a preheat system then the heat is supplied by a diesel furnace.

Even the V10 TDI has one.

[NomisR]

Man, speaking of wasted heat.  Imagine if they can harness the wasted heat from the engines.. to.. I don't.. power something else?  Create Hydrogen even? 

Hmm.. Rotary Engine produces a lot of heat, Rotary engine can run on Hydrogen.
So you use the heat from the Rotary engine to create electricity to produce hydrogen.. so you can perpetually keep a car running by adding more water! 

[SVT666]

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it hotter then fuck in California for most of the year?  And don't people drive around with the A/C on no matter what colour the car is?  I know here in the Okanagan, most people use their A/C all summer no matter what they drive because it's so damn hot.

[giant_mtb]

If you didn't notice, I was trying to contrare the fact that Vinsanity said that he didn't think heat absorbed by the sheet metal would transfer to the interior.

[Galaxy]

Man, speaking of wasted heat.  Imagine if they can harness the wasted heat from the engines.. to.. I don't.. power something else?  Create Hydrogen even? 

Hmm.. Rotary Engine produces a lot of heat, Rotary engine can run on Hydrogen.
So you use the heat from the Rotary engine to create electricity to produce hydrogen.. so you can perpetually keep a car running by adding more water! 

BMW is working on that.

[NomisR]

BMW is working on that.

Yeah, but they're using a boinger engine.. I want a rotary!!

[Galaxy]

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it hotter then fuck in California for most of the year?  And don't people drive around with the A/C on no matter what colour the car is?  I know here in the Okanagan, most people use their A/C all summer no matter what they drive because it's so damn hot.

Their argument is that in a white car the AC will need to work less then in a black car. I doubt the difference is that big. Perhaps they should instead work on AC efficiency. A few years ago I read an artice on AC systems. I do not remember the details but there where great differences in fuel consumption.

[Galaxy]

Yeah, but they're using a boinger engine.. I want a rotary!!

Well that would work to. All the Turbosteamer does is use the exhaust heat to power a generator.

[565]

I think the secret mission is actually to conserve water, as black is such an impossible color to keep clean.

Honestly black looks awesome but I would go crazy trying to keep it clean and swirl free.

[MX793]

Man, speaking of wasted heat.  Imagine if they can harness the wasted heat from the engines.. to.. I don't.. power something else?  Create Hydrogen even? 

Hmm.. Rotary Engine produces a lot of heat, Rotary engine can run on Hydrogen.
So you use the heat from the Rotary engine to create electricity to produce hydrogen.. so you can perpetually keep a car running by adding more water! 

Perpetual motion machines defy the 2nd law.

[NomisR]

Perpetual motion machines defy the 2nd law.

Well, you have to add water (fuel) so it's not a true perpetual motion machine.  It's just a really cheap fuel.

[Tave]

It isn't a real perpetual motion machine if you must continually add fuel (water) to the system.


Edit: Snaked!

[MX793]

Well, you have to add water (fuel) so it's not a true perpetual motion machine.  It's just a really cheap fuel.

Problem is, it takes more electrical energy to split H2 from H2O than the energy that H2 releases when it oxidizes.

[Northlands]

There seems to be a great amount of hot air coming out of Sacramento.

Ban that.

[Galaxy]

Well, you have to add water (fuel) so it's not a true perpetual motion machine.  It's just a really cheap fuel.

The water does not release energy though without energy being expended to release it.

[NomisR]

Problem is, it takes more electrical energy to split H2 from H2O than the energy that H2 releases when it oxidizes.

The water does not release energy though without energy being expended to release it.

Yeah, but the engine cannot run purely on electricity.  So the heat is converted to electricity.  You have to use electricity for something that can be used by the engine.  What I can think of off the top of my head right now is H2 from H20.  So you yield H2 and consume it to produce heat and motion, and use the heat to generate electricity, which creates H2 from H20, rinse and repeat. 

And you can even harness the exhaust fuse from the H2 Rotary engine to reclaim the water. 

[NomisR]

But, since the engine is not 100% efficient, you'll still be using more H2 than created so you'll still have to add some H2 into the system, but it would be infinitely more efficient in theory than a pure H2 system.

[Galaxy]

But, since the engine is not 100% efficient, you'll still be using more H2 than created so you'll still have to add some H2 into the system, but it would be infinitely more efficient in theory than a pure H2 system.

Your just wasting energy to split the water.


What your saying is how the BMW steamster works except with steam not H2. The engine produces heat, the heat turns a liquid into steam, which drives a generator. You are still using energy, but the waste gets reduced.

Sorry that I was not more precise in the first post where I mentioned the Steamster.

[sandertheshark]

Simply due to it's color...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/carb-so-crazy/

Category NINE

[Nethead]

This is the hugest crock of BS I've ever heard.

Nope.  Black vehicles get hugely hot.  Decades ago, my late father had a black T-Bird with a black vinyl roof.  Hottest mutha on the planet!  Let it sit in the sun for thirty minutes on an August afternoon and the doors would whoosh outwards when you opened them.  In its defense, the car had A/C that had two positions:  "Off" and "Frostbitten Balls".  Coldest damned A/C on Earth. 

Whether or not this is a worthwhile regulation, it is nonetheless based upon factual observance.  And yes, the heat penetrates from the black finish on the exterior into the interior in short order, even with protective layers of insulation/sound deadener in between.  Tinted windows help, but they help regardless of the color of the exterior paint...

[hotrodalex]

Yes, heat penetrates to the interior, but not that much. Believe me, I have cars with dark exteriors and light exteriors. The difference is not huge. And if it's hot enough to have the A/C on, I'll have it on the whole time anyway. So I won't save any energy by changing the exterior color.

[ChrisV]

If the AC is working harder, it'll pull more power from the engine, reducing fuel mileage. Especially climate control systems, vs just rotary dial ACs.

As mythbusters found, a black car can be up to 10 degrees hotter inside during regular use.

[hotrodalex]

If the AC is working harder, it'll pull more power from the engine, reducing fuel mileage. Especially climate control systems, vs just rotary dial ACs.

As mythbusters found, a black car can be up to 10 degrees hotter inside during regular use.

But it doesn't work harder, it would just work longer (for me, at least). But that's irrelevant since if it's hot, I'll just turn the A/C on and leave it on.

[ChrisV]

But it doesn't work harder, it would just work longer (for me, at least). But that's irrelevant since if it's hot, I'll just turn the A/C on and leave it on.

Climate control automatically adjusts to maintain a temperature. It's not like systems that you simply turn on or off. So if it's hotter inside the car, then it works harder to maintain a set temp than if it's cooler in the car.

in my car, for example, you set the temp you want the car to be at, not just low/high/max.

[TBR]

If the AC is working harder, it'll pull more power from the engine, reducing fuel mileage. Especially climate control systems, vs just rotary dial ACs.

As mythbusters found, a black car can be up to 10 degrees hotter inside during regular use.

Yeah, if you have regular A/C chances are you'll leave it on and just adjust the temperature/fan speeds (I don't, but then I am a cheap-ass) which I believe wouldn't change the load on the engine.

But, with a climate controlled car, the A/C will cut on and off automatically. So, obviously both manual A/C and black cars need to be banned.

[GoCougs]

But it doesn't work harder, it would just work longer (for me, at least). But that's irrelevant since if it's hot, I'll just turn the A/C on and leave it on.

In theory, the greater the temperature difference (and higher the humidity, too) the harder the compressor works.

[JWC]

In theory, the greater the temperature difference (and higher the humidity, too) the harder the compressor works.

A local tv station did an experiment a couple of summers ago, testing "A/C on" vs. "A/C off" and windows down and compared fuel mileage.   A car got better gas mileage with A/C on and windows up...past 45-50 mph.  The car was more aerodynamic with the windows up.  At lower speeds, the mileage got better with a/c off and the windows down.