WHISPERS: Toyota Planning New 250-hp Scion tC

[BMWDave]

WHISPERS: Toyota Planning New 250-hp Scion tC
Date Posted 08-11-2005

TOKYO ? The grapevine in Japan is whispering about a hot, new 250-horsepower pure sport coupe from Toyota, coming next year, which would also double as a new Celica in Japan.

Japan's moles say they've uncovered secret plans for a new pure sport coupe from Toyota, apparently based around the Scion tC. The unnamed model, due in 2006, has 2.4-liter power, like the tC, yet is good for a reputed 250 horsepower.

Toyota is aiming at Honda's stellar Integra Type R (the more exotic, faster version of America's Acura RSX). And the idea would also be to inject some extra speed and enthusiast muscle into the tC.

America will soon bid farewell to the Celica, so this new 250-hp sport coupe would be a welcome replacement. Across in Japan, the talk is Toyota would rebadge it as the eighth-generation Celica.

While the Celica as we know it is 1.8-liter, the story goes that this new model would jump up to a special high-performance 2.0-liter motor, which may be called 2AZ-GE.

What this means to you: Biggest problem with Scion? No power. Thus, this super tC sounds super-cool; let's hope it makes it into the showrooms here.

[Raghavan]

will they bring back the 4wd celica?

[giant_mtb]

250 HP tC?  My brother will go nuts.      

[ifcar]

They probably should make the 250-hp engine an option on the tC so they can keep an affordable base price.  

[Raza]

The biggest problem with Scion is not having enough power?

And with FWD only, this thing will torque- and under- steer like crazy.

[Raza]

They probably should make the 250-hp engine an option on the tC so they can keep an affordable base price.

I imagine it will me.  A tC GTS model, or something.

[Fire It Up]

The biggest problem with Scion is not having enough power?

And with FWD only, this thing will torque- and under- steer like crazy.

Dont forget itll have about no traction while launching.

[Raghavan]

The biggest problem with Scion is not having enough power?

And with FWD only, this thing will torque- and under- steer like crazy.

A limited slip diff should help a bit...

[Fire It Up]

The biggest problem with Scion is not having enough power?

And with FWD only, this thing will torque- and under- steer like crazy.

A limited slip diff should help a bit...

Screw that, just give it  AWD!

[Raghavan]

The biggest problem with Scion is not having enough power?

And with FWD only, this thing will torque- and under- steer like crazy.

A limited slip diff should help a bit...

Screw that, just give it  AWD!

hell no! RWD is the obvious choice!  

[Run Away]

They're going to get 250hp naturally aspired from a 2.4?

I don't see that happening without this car being pretty expensive. The fact that they're wanting to build the equivelent of a ITR will make it expensive...Honda lost money on every single one sold. Plus they only had to make 195hp out of 1.8L, easier than 250 out of 2.4L.

If they do make one of these with a NA 2.4 250hp, I don't see it being sold in north america. If it does, I'll be very suprised, and it would also mean that Honda would be much more likely to import their current Integra Type-R (220hp 2.0L RSX with lots of suspension stuff)

[Run Away]

You guys bitching about torque steer: if it makes 250hp N/A, it won't have any torque to produce torque steer.

[Fire It Up]

They're going to get 250hp naturally aspired from a 2.4?

I don't see that happening without this car being pretty expensive. The fact that they're wanting to build the equivelent of a ITR will make it expensive...Honda lost money on every single one sold. Plus they only had to make 195hp out of 1.8L, easier than 250 out of 2.4L.

If they do make one of these with a NA 2.4 250hp, I don't see it being sold in north america. If it does, I'll be very suprised, and it would also mean that Honda would be much more likely to import their current Integra Type-R (220hp 2.0L RSX with lots of suspension stuff)

Uh, where did they say it would be N/A?

[Run Away]

They're going to get 250hp naturally aspired from a 2.4?

I don't see that happening without this car being pretty expensive. The fact that they're wanting to build the equivelent of a ITR will make it expensive...Honda lost money on every single one sold. Plus they only had to make 195hp out of 1.8L, easier than 250 out of 2.4L.

If they do make one of these with a NA 2.4 250hp, I don't see it being sold in north america. If it does, I'll be very suprised, and it would also mean that Honda would be much more likely to import their current Integra Type-R (220hp 2.0L RSX with lots of suspension stuff)

Uh, where did they say it would be N/A?

Where did they say there would be forced induction?

No mention of forced induction, so I assumed that it would be naturally aspired, plus the fact that they are aiming towards the DC5.

[Raghavan]

They're going to get 250hp naturally aspired from a 2.4?

I don't see that happening without this car being pretty expensive. The fact that they're wanting to build the equivelent of a ITR will make it expensive...Honda lost money on every single one sold. Plus they only had to make 195hp out of 1.8L, easier than 250 out of 2.4L.

If they do make one of these with a NA 2.4 250hp, I don't see it being sold in north america. If it does, I'll be very suprised, and it would also mean that Honda would be much more likely to import their current Integra Type-R (220hp 2.0L RSX with lots of suspension stuff)

195 hp out of 1.8 l is 108 hp/l, and 250hp out of a 2.4 is only 104hp/l. i think the firs tone is harder to make.

[Run Away]

But the 1.8L is 600ccs smaller. Small pistons are the key to being able to rev high and make lots of power in relation to engine size.
The smaller engine, the easier it is to make impressive hp/l figures.

Why do you think crotch-rockets make over 100hp out of a 0.6L carburated engine?

The biggest engine that has an impressive hp/l figure is the F430. It has 114hp/L, but it's a relatively small V8 at only 4.3L.

The 360 Modena was the same way; most 3.6L engines are V6s.

And I doubt a TC will have Ferrari grade engine parts without Ferrari grade prices.

[Raghavan]

But the 1.8L is 600ccs smaller. Small pistons are the key to being able to rev high and make lots of power in relation to engine size.
The smaller engine, the easier it is to make impressive hp/l figures.

Why do you think crotch-rockets make over 100hp out of a 0.6L carburated engine?

The biggest engine that has an impressive hp/l figure is the F430. It has 114hp/L, but it's a relatively small V8 at only 4.3L.

The 360 Modena was the same way; most 3.6L engines are V6s.

And I doubt a TC will have Ferrari grade engine parts without Ferrari grade prices.

Oh. I see now.

[sportyaccordy]

Well I dunno about the big engine theory...granted yes, the little Kawasaki L4's are extraordinary in their relative output, stemming from their super short strokes and small cylinders in general...alright, so smaller engines are indeed more efficient.

In any case, the F430 is really just 2 insane 2.15L L4's that happen to share a crankshaft. Granted the bore and stroke are much larger than those of say, a 1000cc L4, but  not too far at all from a 1000cc V-twin, which still make decent relative power.

That said, if BMW could get 230HP from their 2.5L 4 in the E30 M3 EVO, there's no reason now with VVT and VVL that Toyota can't eek out 20 more HP from 100cc less engine, with cleaner emissions and smoother operations. I really hope they don't go w/forced induction, because I feel like that's a copout...plus the low compression nature of forced induction motors make for worse fuel economy for the same power/displacement...

***DIGRESSION***

I never understood why Acura had to do so much to get that extra 25 hp over the GS-R motor for the Type-R motor. A simple bump in compression, better balanced rods and pistons, SLIGHTLY more aggresive cams and freer flowing peripherals would yield more than 25 hp from that motor. If they could sell the GS-R for profit there was no reason they had to sell the ITR at a loss. I never understood that...

The new ITR (RSX body) has a 2.0L engine that makes 220HP...but it has nowhere near the same amount of human intensive work done to it...they just upped the displacement, upped the compression, improved the head design and gave it VVT on the intake cam gear...I think the only differences between the 200HP RSX motor and the 220HP JDM ITR are the compression and the cams...

Sorry for the long post.

[Car Zeus]

Yay for Toyota!