Law Enforcement Memorial plates: LEO brownie points?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Come on Nick, getting arrested would be a blast....

So getting throw in jail for a day wouldn't be the end of the word, but losing my license and having a felony on my record would.

[dazzleman]

So getting throw in jail for a day wouldn't be the end of the word, but losing my license and having a felony on my record would.

I doubt that would happen for going 25 mph or so over the speed limit.

Speaking of that, I hit 95 mph yesterday.  It was pretty cool.  Later on, there was a cop, and when I saw him, I was going between 85 and 90.  So were all the cars around me.  There was no way to really slow down in time, so I just took it down to about 70, but I imagine he had clocked me all ready.  He was sitting there pointing his gun at all the cars, but he never came out and pulled anybody over, and we were all going pretty fast.  It was pretty strange.  Since CT often has a tag team approach, I thought there might be another cop slightly down the road who would flag me over, but there was no other cop, and I was back up to about 80 mph within a mile or so.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I doubt that would happen for going 25 mph or so over the speed limit.

Speaking of that, I hit 95 mph yesterday.  It was pretty cool.  Later on, there was a cop, and when I saw him, I was going between 85 and 90.  So were all the cars around me.  There was no way to really slow down in time, so I just took it down to about 70, but I imagine he had clocked me all ready.  He was sitting there pointing his gun at all the cars, but he never came out and pulled anybody over, and we were all going pretty fast.  It was pretty strange.  Since CT often has a tag team approach, I thought there might be another cop slightly down the road who would flag me over, but there was no other cop, and I was back up to about 80 mph within a mile or so.

[rohan]

So getting throw in jail for a day wouldn't be the end of the word, but losing my license and having a felony on my record would.

I honestly don't know of anyplace that speeding more than 25 miles per hour is a felony- could be but I've never heard of it.  At worst it's gonna be a reckless driving which is a misdemeanor.   Here the worst it would be is a 25 over speeding ticket- maybe if you were doing something else like passing cars illegally it would be careless driving.  I stopped a car just before getting promoted on a state road we call "M" roads here for doing 110 in a 55 - I wrote him the 110/55.  All he got was 4 points for that and about $300 fine.  OH and the dumbass actually fought it in court.    The magistrate just looked at him like he was out of his mind because he said "I know I wasn't going 110 because my speedometer only goes to 85 and it was stopped there by the post."  The  magistrate basically looked at hiim like this 

[dazzleman]

I honestly don't know of anyplace that speeding more than 25 miles per hour is a felony- could be but I've never heard of it.  At worst it's gonna be a reckless driving which is a misdemeanor.   Here the worst it would be is a 25 over speeding ticket- maybe if you were doing something else like passing cars illegally it would be careless driving.  I stopped a car just before getting promoted on a state road we call "M" roads here for doing 110 in a 55 - I wrote him the 110/55.  All he got was 4 points for that and about $300 fine.  OH and the dumbass actually fought it in court.    The magistrate just looked at him like he was out of his mind because he said "I know I wasn't going 110 because my speedometer only goes to 85 and it was stopped there by the post."  The  magistrate basically looked at hiim like this 

If all I was going to get for doing 110 mph was a $300 fine and four points, I'd have quietly paid it and moved on.  Fighting such a light penalty in court is just asking for trouble, IMO.  Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

I think I want to come speed in your state.  I promise I'll be nice and friendly if you pull me over, even if you write me up...

[dazzleman]

The funny thing is how nonchalant I was about the whole thing.  I didn't even get that nervous when I saw the trooper with his speed gun pointed.   I thought there was a pretty good chance he'd bust me, but I just resigned myself to it calmly.  I expected to get flagged over by the other member of the tag team a short distance down the road, and I was a little surprised when it never happened.

[rohan]

If all I was going to get for doing 110 mph was a $300 fine and four points, I'd have quietly paid it and moved on.  Fighting such a light penalty in court is just asking for trouble, IMO.  Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

I think I want to come speed in your state.  I promise I'll be nice and friendly if you pull me over, even if you write me up...

I rarely work traffic or patrol anymore but once in a while I still go out and play a little.  right now on this shift we've got 6 cars working traffic on OT on a grant- 4 on click it or ticket and 2 on drunk driving detail-  that's not including the normal 2 traffic enforcement only cars we have on.  Been like that up to about 3-4 am all weekend long. 

[dazzleman]

I rarely work traffic or patrol anymore but once in a while I still go out and play a little.  right now on this shift we've got 6 cars working traffic on OT on a grant- 4 on click it or ticket and 2 on drunk driving detail-  that's not including the normal 2 traffic enforcement only cars we have on.  Been like that up to about 3-4 am all weekend long. 

Click It or Ticket is such bullshit.  I normally wear my seat belt, but when I see the Click It or Ticket commercials, I sometimes make it a point not to wear it.  What a waste of resources to have 4 cares on Click It or Ticket and only 2 on drunk driving detail.  Which offense is more serious?

Typical that it's paid for by a grant, too.  Let me guess -- federal government?  What a waste of taxpayer money.

[MX793]

It's not a matter of "professional courtesy" that an officer in a marked cruiser doesn't get citations when driving contrary to traffic laws. In most states, public safety vehicles are exempt from traffic laws. It's not realistic for me to drive the speed limit on the way to every call, nor is it realistic for me to run lights and sirens to every call. There are urgent calls that require a quicker response but aren't of such a priority to necessitate a hot run. For those, you might very well see me driving above the speed limit without my overhead lights and sirens activated. I'm not doing this for the thrill of speeding or just because I like disregarding the law, I'm doing this because my duty to the public necessitates a quick response to a call for service.

As for off duty, as I've said, that's a hot topic in LE. One arguement is that, as enforcers of the law, we should be held to a higher standard. The other is that we give plenty of professional courtesy to others (ie doctors, nurses, firefighters, soldiers, etc) and alot of warnings to the average joe, so why don't we deserve a break? Quite frankly, I can see both sides of the coin. In the end, I'm not sure why it would be a pet peeve of yours..you have no idea if the guy getting a warning is a LEO when you drive past a traffic stop, nor do you know if he's getting the warning because he "badged" the officer or because he was just another citizen who got a warning instead of a ticket.

This topic really grew fast.

Fair enough, I'll give you that in some (perhaps many) of the cases where I see an officer driving at ticketable speeds without lights or siren he/she is responding to a call that warrants getting there quickly but doesn't necessitate the lights and sound show.  But please explain the following specific incidents I've witnessed over the past several months:

-A highway patrol vehicle blasts past me going 20+ over the limit without lights or siren and then maybe a 1/4 up the road pulls into the police barracks.  What call might they have been responding to at the barracks?  The end of his/her shift?

-A police vehicle with some local town/city markings goes sailing past me at 15-20 over limit on the interstate (on these roads, 10 over usually gets overlooked but I've seen vehicles pass me going 15 over pulled over at some point down the road).  The officer was not in their area of jurisdiction, nor were they anywhere near their home jurisdiction.  In fact, I don't think they were even heading in a direction that would take them to their home jurisdiction.

-I regularly see state and county corrections transport vehicles driving at speeds that would land other motorists a ticket.  I don't think these are even technically emergency vehicles (no lights), though they have police markings on the sides.  Is it that urgent that an inmate get to the jail on time (presuming there was even an inmate in the vehicle)?

[Raza]

My car doesn't move unless everyone's buckled, and it has nothing to do with the law. 

Drunk driving enforcement, however, I do support.  Driving drunk is unacceptable.  There was this pitcher, just a kid, out celebrating his first major league start.  He was killed in a hit and run by a drunk driver.  I never, never drive if I've had over two drinks, or two drinks in less than an hour.

[dazzleman]

This topic really grew fast.

Fair enough, I'll give you that in some (perhaps many) of the cases where I see an officer driving at ticketable speeds without lights or siren he/she is responding to a call that warrants getting there quickly but doesn't necessitate the lights and sound show.  But please explain the following specific incidents I've witnessed over the past several months:

-A highway patrol vehicle blasts past me going 20+ over the limit without lights or siren and then maybe a 1/4 up the road pulls into the police barracks.  What call might they have been responding to at the barracks?  The end of his/her shift?

-A police vehicle with some local town/city markings goes sailing past me at 15-20 over limit on the interstate (on these roads, 10 over usually gets overlooked but I've seen vehicles pass me going 15 over pulled over at some point down the road).  The officer was not in their area of jurisdiction, nor were they anywhere near their home jurisdiction.  In fact, I don't think they were even heading in a direction that would take them to their home jurisdiction.

-I regularly see state and county corrections transport vehicles driving at speeds that would land other motorists a ticket.  I don't think these are even technically emergency vehicles (no lights), though they have police markings on the sides.  Is it that urgent that an inmate get to the jail on time (presuming there was even an inmate in the vehicle)?

I actually love it when I see highway patrols blowing by me at high speed.   A few years ago, I was on the Merritt Parkway going about 80 mph, and I saw a state trooper come racing up behind me.  Naturally, I thought I was about to become roadkill figuratively, but I moved over to the right lane, and he just blew past me.  I decided, WTF, let me have some fun with this.  So I pulled in behind him, increased my speed to his, and followed him (at a discreet distance, of course.  Instead of bitching about this stuff, we have to learn to turn it to our advantage.

[rohan]

But please explain the following specific incidents I've witnessed over the past several months:

No one can explain it because we weren't there- that's like us asking you why someone at your workplace violated some rule when you were on vacation.

-A highway patrol vehicle blasts past me going 20+ over the limit without lights or siren and then maybe a 1/4 up the road pulls into the police barracks.  What call might they have been responding to at the barracks?  The end of his/her shift?

Maybe another officer had someone under arrest there that was causing problems or maybe someone came into the office that was under some kind of medical condition and needed help but didn't need emergency help?  Some departments won't OK OT after you've cleared a call or stop because of all the budget cuts- at that point you're on your own time.

-A police vehicle with some local town/city markings goes sailing past me at 15-20 over limit on the interstate (on these roads, 10 over usually gets overlooked but I've seen vehicles pass me going 15 over pulled over at some point down the road).  The officer was not in their area of jurisdiction, nor were they anywhere near their home jurisdiction.  In fact, I don't think they were even heading in a direction that would take them to their home jurisdiction.

On their way to meet another agency to pickup a prisoner- the Supreme Court has ruled on this requiring us to get there in a reasonable timeframe and not have the badguy waiting in handcuffs for extended periods of time.  Maybe he was headed to back up another officer that needed assistance but wasn't fighting with someone- if my guys dilly-dally going to assist someone from another department who asking for help regardless fo the activity at that moment- and I find out about it they're gonna hear from me.  Officer asks for help there's usually a pretty damn good reason even if he's not actively fighting with someone. 

-I regularly see state and county corrections transport vehicles driving at speeds that would land other motorists a ticket.  I don't think these are even technically emergency vehicles (no lights), though they have police markings on the sides.  Is it that urgent that an inmate get to the jail on time (presuming there was even an inmate in the vehicle)?

They are not police usually they are just some guy working as a turnkey.  Can't blame police for non-police speeding. 

[rohan]

Click It or Ticket is such bullshit.  I normally wear my seat belt, but when I see the Click It or Ticket commercials, I sometimes make it a point not to wear it.  What a waste of resources to have 4 cares on Click It or Ticket and only 2 on drunk driving detail.  Which offense is more serious?

Typical that it's paid for by a grant, too.  Let me guess -- federal government?  What a waste of taxpayer money.

I don't agree that it's bullshit they get a lot of drunks off  the road on those details- many drunks don't wear their belts for some reason.  I'ld say they get pretty close to the same amount of drunks as the drunk enforcement does- not sure but I'll check that in the morning when all the details are over.  To be honest sur our guys on the detail write a lot of belt violations but we use those grants to our advantage when we can by asking they use the belt vio.s for more than tickets.  Besides the grant says we only have to have 4 contacts per hour it says nothing about tickets- and our guys are fairly lenient on it.  Yeah it's paid for by the feds the drunk driver one is a state grant deal.  Again I'm not so sure it's a waste if they are finding other issues like suspendeds and drunks or people without insurance and so on that would normally not have gotten stopped because the cars weren't out.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I actually love it when I see highway patrols blowing by me at high speed.   A few years ago, I was on the Merritt Parkway going about 80 mph, and I saw a state trooper come racing up behind me.  Naturally, I thought I was about to become roadkill figuratively, but I moved over to the right lane, and he just blew past me.  I decided, WTF, let me have some fun with this.  So I pulled in behind him, increased my speed to his, and followed him (at a discreet distance, of course.  Instead of bitching about this stuff, we have to learn to turn it to our advantage.

Oh, it's ok when they have their lights and sirens blasting so you know they're coming. It's not cool at all when they take you by surprise and nearly run you off the road. There is no reason for that.

[dazzleman]

I don't agree that it's bullshit they get a lot of drunks off  the road on those details- many drunks don't wear their belts for some reason.  I'ld say they get pretty close to the same amount of drunks as the drunk enforcement does- not sure but I'll check that in the morning when all the details are over.  To be honest sur our guys on the detail write a lot of belt violations but we use those grants to our advantage when we can by asking they use the belt vio.s for more than tickets.  Besides the grant says we only have to have 4 contacts per hour it says nothing about tickets- and our guys are fairly lenient on it.  Yeah it's paid for by the feds the drunk driver one is a state grant deal.  Again I'm not so sure it's a waste if they are finding other issues like suspendeds and drunks or people without insurance and so on that would normally not have gotten stopped because the cars weren't out.

If you're finding other stuff with it, then it probably is worth it.  I take back what I said, and bow to your superior information on the subject.  That reminds me of how, when New York started to crack down on people evading the fares on the subways, they found that most of the people evading fares had guns, arrest warrants out on them, etc.  I guess it's a similar concept.

[dazzleman]

Oh, it's ok when they have their lights and sirens blasting so you know they're coming. It's not cool at all when they take you by surprise and nearly run you off the road. There is no reason for that.

The guy who came up behind me didn't have lights and sirens.  But I wouldn't say he nearly ran me off the road.  I was going pretty fast myself, and I saw him coming from a good distance.  I thought I was busted, but as I said, he just blew by me after I went over to the right lane.  It was a lot of fun to actually increase my speed in response to seeing a statie, and use him to go even faster than I'd been going before.  He served a valuable purpose in clearing the left lane, something that I couldn't have done.

[rohan]

If you're finding other stuff with it, then it probably is worth it.  I take back what I said, and bow to your superior information on the subject.  That reminds me of how, when New York started to crack down on people evading the fares on the subways, they found that most of the people evading fares had guns, arrest warrants out on them, etc.  I guess it's a similar concept.

I don't know anything about the "superior" information thing but that's just what we use it for.   It gets us to be able to stop a lot more cars than we normally would be able to on a weekend like this.  Talking with one of the guys who is going home from his shift he says it's really pretty hard to find anyone without a seatbelt on and they're having to do more regular stuff like speed enforcement to hit the requirement of the grant.

[Rupert]

So you now agree that we're right, and were all along? 

Seriously though, I can see where that would be pretty annoying, no matter how misguided the point you were trying to make was...   We'll have to agree to disagree on whose politics is misguided.

All that aside, I have to say that your good-natured skewering of my lame, pseudo-badass persona was hilarious, and perfectly on the mark.  If you can bust my balls and get me to think it's hilarious, then we have to be buddies...

I'd also say I pegged you pretty well too.  I picture you out behind the gym in high school when you're supposed to be in class, smoking weed with your stoner buddies, and bitching about the 'fascist' school administrators who have actually been very easy on you and let you get away with a lot.

Yeah, that's about right. We didn't go behind the gym, though, because we had an open campus and there were other good places to go nearby. We also talked about bikes.

[Rupert]

I was thinking I'm more a pseudo-asshole or temporary asshole.

I can get on board with that. It's actually a useful (anti-) social tool to have in the box.  

[dazzleman]

I don't know anything about the "superior" information thing but that's just what we use it for.   It gets us to be able to stop a lot more cars than we normally would be able to on a weekend like this.  Talking with one of the guys who is going home from his shift he says it's really pretty hard to find anyone without a seatbelt on and they're having to do more regular stuff like speed enforcement to hit the requirement of the grant.

I just meant you know more about the subject than I do.

[dazzleman]

Yeah, that's about right. We didn't go behind the gym, though, because we had an open campus and there were other good places to go nearby. We also talked about bikes.

That makes sense.  I just picked the gym because it's usually set a bit apart from the rest of the building and has solid walls rather than rows of windows, so you're less likely to be seen there.

[Rupert]

Yeah, I think that's a pretty typical place. Also under the bleachers (which we did sometimes). We had some nearby parks and woods, so we usually went there, especially when skipping a class. If it was between classes, we would go less far (duh). I don't think I ever drank during school hours, actually...

[dazzleman]

Yeah, I think that's a pretty typical place. Also under the bleachers (which we did sometimes). We had some nearby parks and woods, so we usually went there, especially when skipping a class. If it was between classes, we would go less far (duh). I don't think I ever drank during school hours, actually...

I never drank at school, but we were allowed to leave campus senior year, and sometimes I went out to lunch and drank.  That usually led to some sort of trouble though, so I had to limit it.  One time I got so drink I had to skip both my afternoon classes, and I got in big trouble for that one.  I had to suck it up, because telling the truth would have been worth.  You were lucky you could get away with cutting class.  I never once cut a class without getting in trouble for it.

[bing_oh]

I can get on board with that. It's actually a useful (anti-) social tool to have in the box.  

Being social's highly overrated anyway.

[TurboDan]

So, the firemen do not put stickers on their vehicles there? 

My wife goes to Morristown in a couple weeks, I will have her keep an eye out for those for me to see how prevelant they are.

Do the fireman stickers get them out of tickets? If so, that's just as bad.

Your wife will definitely see the courtesy badges. They're all over the place in N.J. Like I said before, I personally don't hold any resentment or anger about it, but it seems pretty unfair that anyone who's remotely related to a police officer in this state can get one of these things and get out of tickets. It's as if there are two classes of people, and I will admit it's annoying - luckily, I don't spend much time thinking of it, so it never really bothers me to any extent.

Some people take it more seriously, however, and such a public display like the courtesy badge is openly announcing that you're exempt from some aspects of the law.

[TurboDan]

This is where I have a problem.  You seem to accept that just because a law is on the books it is just, and therefore should be obeyed.  We've had unjust laws in this country before, and while this is nowhere near the level of severity of unjust laws like slavery, segregation, that TARP bonus tax, and other laws, it still shouldn't be accepted just because it exists. 

Speed limits are arbitrary restraints and a restriction on our personal freedom (I will not address the revenue issue, though, at this time.  For now, let's leave that out of it).  While I agree that driver training should be better in this country, I think that the fact that many people tend to drive 15-20mph over the limit safely everyday should lead you to the conclusion that speed limits are artificially low.  I'm not completely opposed to speed limits; I'd just want logical ones based on empirical data and not political appeasement.

The issue is who, at which, the anger over this "injustice" is directed. The cop who pulled you over? He's doing his job - what do you expect? The anger should be directed at the politicians. The thing is, we're in the minority. Most politicians I've spoken to have said they get tons of complaints about "those damn speeders" and want to lower speed limits. It's NOT all about revenue - speeding is a big-time complaint local politicians get, and they pride themselves on responding by lowering speed limits.

[James Young]

The issue is who, at which, the anger over this "injustice" is directed. The cop who pulled you over? He's doing his job - what do you expect? The anger should be directed at the politicians. The thing is, we're in the minority. Most politicians I've spoken to have said they get tons of complaints about "those damn speeders" and want to lower speed limits. It's NOT all about revenue - speeding is a big-time complaint local politicians get, and they pride themselves on responding by lowering speed limits.

I believe that officers individually and the institution of law enforcement collectively have a moral obligation to speak up as professionals against laws that fail to fulfill the promise under which they were implemented.  If speed limits fail to affect key measures of traffic safety ? using official enforcement data, BTW ? they must be rescinded and LEOs have an obligation to ask for that rescission.  Politicians are even worse because they have whored themselves to the special interests (read, insurance industry) and give us the constant drivel that they get complaints about all the speeders, blah, blah.  Yet, when voters have been offered an actual vote on traffic law enforcement ? usually red light cameras and/or photo-radar ? they have voted down extra enforcement in every single case. 

[TurboDan]

I believe that officers individually and the institution of law enforcement collectively have a moral obligation to speak up as professionals against laws that fail to fulfill the promise under which they were implemented.  If speed limits fail to affect key measures of traffic safety ? using official enforcement data, BTW ? they must be rescinded and LEOs have an obligation to ask for that rescission.  Politicians are even worse because they have whored themselves to the special interests (read, insurance industry) and give us the constant drivel that they get complaints about all the speeders, blah, blah.  Yet, when voters have been offered an actual vote on traffic law enforcement ? usually red light cameras and/or photo-radar ? they have voted down extra enforcement in every single case. 

I'm sure you're right on the cams, but I've covered local and county meetings for the newspaper and have heard people screaming about speeders to the governing bodies. While I don't doubt the politicians are in bed with the insurance industry, that's really only a part of why they want low speed limits.

[James Young]

You are correct; it is only part of their position.  They are pandering to an audience, albeit a small but noisy audience.  They want to appear to be doing something (anything!) about an issue perceived as a problem even though real evidence shows that it is not a problem.  I have lobbied many state legislators in OK, TX, UT and CA and realize that they are not scientists, do not think scientifically and they are horribly ignorant about so much it is frightening.  Their sine qua non is reelection and avoiding negative votes is a critical part of that process.  Only when they start to get repercussions from pandering votes will they change their tune.

[Rupert]

Being social's highly overrated anyway.

Hence, this forum.