Edmunds tests SHO, compares it to Pontiac G8 GT.

[Colonel Cadillac]

I read somewhere that GM is considering badging the G8 as an Impala (a replacement is due) and/or making a line of Police intercepters. I'm liking both ideas.

[Submariner]

I read somewhere that GM is considering badging the G8 as an Impala (a replacement is due) and/or making a line of Police intercepters. I'm liking both ideas.

Why not?  It's the G8 is eons ahead of the current snooze box, and they could always offer softer sprung versions to please the older folks (similar to the older Caprice Classic and the Impalla SS)

[ChrisV]

I read somewhere that GM is considering badging the G8 as an Impala (a replacement is due) and/or making a line of Police intercepters. I'm liking both ideas.

That's old news. It was recently announced that no such thing will be happening.


..............................

"DETROIT ? Fans of the Pontiac G8 were dealt yet another blow on Tuesday with the official word from GM that the performance car will not live on as a rebadged car for Chevrolet or any other GM brand.

"I am not a fan of rebadging," said GM CEO Fritz Henderson when asked if the Pontiac G8 has any kind of future within General Motors as a rebadged model and what kinds of changes would be need to be made to the car for it to be sold under another brand.

Henderson also addressed why Pontiac could not be sold in the same manner as Hummer, Saab and Saturn.

"We have had success in discussions with buyers re[garding] Hummer, Saab and Saturn," he wrote. "But in the end we did not see the same potential, to be honest, for Pontiac."

Henderson seemed more positive about the automaker's ability to "continue to differentiate" the GMC brand versus Chevrolet. "Take a look at the new Chevrolet Equinox and the GMC Terrain, for example," Henderson wrote.

In other product news generated by the Web chat, Henderson said that GM's fuel cell vehicles are "still some considerable time away from commercially feasible vehicles." He added: "Re R&D, while we need to be more efficient in this area, we are confident that we can maintain the capabilities necessary to win in the market going forward."

Inside Line says: It appears that all hope is gone for the Pontiac G8, even though it has a hard-core loyal following. ? Anita Lienert, Correspondent "

[Submariner]

That's old news. It was recently announced that no such thing will be happening.


..............................

"DETROIT ? Fans of the Pontiac G8 were dealt yet another blow on Tuesday with the official word from GM that the performance car will not live on as a rebadged car for Chevrolet or any other GM brand.

"I am not a fan of rebadging," said GM CEO Fritz Henderson when asked if the Pontiac G8 has any kind of future within General Motors as a rebadged model and what kinds of changes would be need to be made to the car for it to be sold under another brand.

Henderson also addressed why Pontiac could not be sold in the same manner as Hummer, Saab and Saturn.

"We have had success in discussions with buyers re[garding] Hummer, Saab and Saturn," he wrote. "But in the end we did not see the same potential, to be honest, for Pontiac."

Henderson seemed more positive about the automaker's ability to "continue to differentiate" the GMC brand versus Chevrolet. "Take a look at the new Chevrolet Equinox and the GMC Terrain, for example," Henderson wrote.

In other product news generated by the Web chat, Henderson said that GM's fuel cell vehicles are "still some considerable time away from commercially feasible vehicles." He added: "Re R&D, while we need to be more efficient in this area, we are confident that we can maintain the capabilities necessary to win in the market going forward."

Inside Line says: It appears that all hope is gone for the Pontiac G8, even though it has a hard-core loyal following. ? Anita Lienert, Correspondent "

Haha...so after decades of rebadging turd, they decide not to continue the tradition when a decent car comes along.

Absolutely astonishing

[CALL_911]

Haha...so after decades of rebadging turd, they decide not to continue the tradition when a decent car comes along.

Absolutely astonishing

My sentiments exactly.

[the Teuton]

[TBR]

Haha...so after decades of rebadging turd, they decide not to continue the tradition when a decent car comes along.

Absolutely astonishing

Not really. The G8 isn't moving, that almost certainly wouldn't change with a badge change.

[ifcar]

^Successful car. Utter garbage, at the bottom of its segment, but decent sales, even decent retail sales.



^Flop. Well-reviewed car that the reviewers didn't buy and no one else wanted.

GM is displaying good judgment by listening to the market instead of the pundits.

[2o6]

Haha...so after decades of rebadging turd, they decide not to continue the tradition when a decent car comes along.

Absolutely astonishing

It'll fail.

[MX793]

^Successful car. Utter garbage, at the bottom of its segment, but decent sales, even decent retail sales.



^Flop. Well-reviewed car that the reviewers didn't buy and no one else wanted.

GM is displaying good judgment by listening to the market instead of the pundits.

And I'd wager price had a lot to do with that.  The base G8 started near where a mid to top level GP was.  Facter in that GM could afford to heavily discount the GP due to it being built on a very old and long since paid for platform, and folks were picking up GPs for a lot less than they could ever hope to get a G8.

[Catman]

^Successful car. Utter garbage, at the bottom of its segment, but decent sales, even decent retail sales.



^Flop. Well-reviewed car that the reviewers didn't buy and no one else wanted.

GM is displaying good judgment by listening to the market instead of the pundits.

An accurate and disappointing take on the reality of the American consumer.  Strange.  I think RWD scares a lot of people in northern states but I doubt this was the reason the G8 failed.

[ifcar]

And I'd wager price had a lot to do with that.  The base G8 started near where a mid to top level GP was.  Facter in that GM could afford to heavily discount the GP due to it being built on a very old and long since paid for platform, and folks were picking up GPs for a lot less than they could ever hope to get a G8.

I'm sure that's a lot of it. It's what killed Ford Five Hundred sales compared to the old Taurus -- people are not going to pay more for a better product as long as the old one meets their needs.

Another big part is the anonymous styling. Clean doesn't cut it when you're trying to be noticed.

The rest is that the car's primary advantage is that it handles well for a large sedan, while the average large sedan buyer has different priorities and the people that want the best handling aren't flocking to large sedans.

[the Teuton]

This is why the Impala outsells the Malibu, too.

[MX793]

This is why the Impala outsells the Malibu, too.

Does the Impala outsell it once you've removed fleet sales from the equation?

[ifcar]

Does the Impala outsell it once you've removed fleet sales from the equation?

Possibly, because it's not as if the Malibu is no-fleet either.

[MX793]

Possibly, because it's not as if the Malibu is no-fleet either.

Yeah, but last I heard, over 50% of Impalas go to fleets.

[ifcar]

Yeah, but last I heard, over 50% of Impalas go to fleets.

Last I heard, over 50 percent of Malibus go to fleets -- 53% as of October, the most recent number I found.

[Submariner]

Not really. The G8 isn't moving, that almost certainly wouldn't change with a badge change.

They also NEVER marketed it.  The Impala has the upper hand here, as it's a recognizable name.

[ifcar]

They also NEVER marketed it.  The Impala has the upper hand here, as it's a recognizable name.

The Impala isn't moving because of its name. It's because it's big, cheap, and quiet. GM has no reason to abandon its current customers to keep trying to sell a car that no one is buying.

[Submariner]

The Impala isn't moving because of its name. It's because it's big, cheap, and quiet. GM has no reason to abandon its current customers to keep trying to sell a car that no one is buying.

If they ramped up production of the G8 here, its possible they could get costs down, and I'd imagine they could soften it up enough for the typical Impala customer.

Point is, they have a good large car, and they're pissing it away.  Not willing to pony up the cash for the necessary improvements is what has sent GM to the bottom of the pack.

[ifcar]

If they ramped up production of the G8 here, its possible they could get costs down, and I'd imagine they could soften it up enough for the typical Impala customer.

Point is, they have a good large car, and they're pissing it away.  Not willing to pony up the cash for the necessary improvements is what has sent GM to the bottom of the pack.

People don't want a sporty expensive large GM sedan. They want comfortable and inexpensive. Investing more into the product that no one wants -- driving up the price further -- is not going to turn that around. People who buy large sedans simply aren't interested in vehicles like the G8.

[ChrisV]

And in general, people who want sporty large sedans won't even LOOK at a GM product, even if it was perfect. So they're kinda stuck. Build the car enthusiasts want, but won't buy anyhow, or build the car that the only people that would look at their cars anyway would buy.

[MX793]

And in general, people who want sporty large sedans won't even LOOK at a GM product, even if it was perfect. So they're kinda stuck. Build the car enthusiasts want, but won't buy anyhow, or build the car that the only people that would look at their cars anyway would buy.

GM is largely to blame for this phenomena, though.  For a large or midsize performance sedan, GM used to be THE place to go.  They squandered that long ago.

[the Teuton]

It takes investment to make a new product work.  Just look at how much time, energy, and money Ford has put into the Fusion and Taurus.  Look at how the Freestyle/Taurus X fell by the wayside. 

If you're going to make a new product, you have to market it properly.  Then you have to make sure it's not a piece of crap so people will want to buy a newer version of it again in a few years.

[ifcar]

GM is largely to blame for this phenomena, though.  For a large or midsize performance sedan, GM used to be THE place to go.  They squandered that long ago.

There just isn't a huge market for large or even midsize performance sedans. A few do have lots of power, but their primary focus is style and luxury, a la Maxima and 300.

[MX793]

There just isn't a huge market for large or even midsize performance sedans. A few do have lots of power, but their primary focus is style and luxury, a la Maxima and 300.

Performance sedans will never be bread-and-butter models in sales volume, but the fact remains that the vast majority of buyers in that market niche won't even consider a GM product today.  You don't think that might have been because GM peddled sub-par cars for 2 decades?

[ifcar]

Performance sedans will never be bread-and-butter models in sales volume, but the fact remains that the vast majority of buyers in that market niche won't even consider a GM product today.  You don't think that might have been because GM peddled sub-par cars for 2 decades?

I do believe GM sells more large mainstream sedans than almost everyone else put together. That would be difficult if the vast majority of buyers avoided them.

[MX793]

I do believe GM sells more large mainstream sedans than almost everyone else put together. That would be difficult if the vast majority of buyers avoided them.

I'm not talking about mainstream sedans, I'm talking about performance sedans.  In the performance sedan market niche, most buyers won't even consider a GM product. 

I'd attribute this to half-assed performance sedan efforts like the last Malibu SS or the 240 hp Impala/Monte Carlo SSs of the early '00s.  Basically the same kind of tepid effort that the last Taurus SHO devolved into.

[ifcar]

I'm not talking about mainstream sedans, I'm talking about performance sedans.  In the performance sedan market niche, most buyers won't even consider a GM product. 

I'd attribute this to half-assed performance sedan efforts like the last Malibu SS or the 240 hp Impala/Monte Carlo SSs of the early '00s.  Basically the same kind of tepid effort that the last Taurus SHO devolved into.

That may be.

But the suggestion I'm seeing in this thread is that they replace a strong-selling mainstream product with a niche sporty car that has already proven to be unpopular despite positive press. GM doesn't need to chase the tiny sporty niche; it has more important problems to deal with.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Performance sedans will never be bread-and-butter models in sales volume, but the fact remains that the vast majority of buyers in that market niche won't even consider a GM product today.  You don't think that might have been because GM peddled sub-par cars for 2 decades?