SENTENCED: Accident question (Total loss)

[AutobahnSHO]

Here, you are presented with the perfect opportunity to rid yourself of the minivan curse,

You might "get it" if you had kids one day. 

Honestly
-more space than any SUV out there
-better gas mileage than most SUVs
-easier to transport washer/dryer etc... -can you fit a washer into the side door of an Audi? I moved my entire 5-person house (except for a queen bed) Inside my van.
-not as huge as a regular van (although I'd take a Dodge Sprinter if I could afford one (and afford to customize it some))
-each kid gets a seat far enough away from each other to not have to hear "(s)he's on my side!"

[Eye of the Tiger]

You might "get it" if you had kids one day. 

Honestly
-more space than any SUV out there
-better gas mileage than most SUVs
-easier to transport washer/dryer etc... -can you fit a washer into the side door of an Audi? I moved my entire 5-person house (except for a queen bed) Inside my van.
-not as huge as a regular van (although I'd take a Dodge Sprinter if I could afford one (and afford to customize it some))
-each kid gets a seat far enough away from each other to not have to hear "(s)he's on my side!"

Get a trailer for the Audi. The kids are better off learning how to sit next to each other. Not everyone gets to have their own first class seat in the real world.

[AutobahnSHO]

The Dodge Caravan is probably your best bet if you can't afford one of the Japanese vans.  Seems like reasonable miles, if it was maintained well.

See, that's what kills me!
Sure you can buy a van w/ our mileage and year for $2k (acc. to some company the Insurance co. pays.)
But will it be as reliable as our current ride? It was probably good for another 50k with just minor work. The only real issues were a few rust spots, 10yr old suspension, and we never did buy the keyfob for the keyless entry.

It was bought March 2005, $4500 cash, with 118k miles. So 4 years, 40k miles, a/c and brake repairs= $3600, other maintenance= $400, new tires last month  =  $400
We'll get $2500 from it, that equals out to an average of $125/month.
Not too bad, sure beats a huge car payment.   

(we have friends who insist on buying a new SUV every 3yrs. They don't want to risk breaking down, but they are so upside down on their loan it's not even funny. We didn't have a single breakdown in 4yrs. Just some obnoxious diy maintenance.)

[The Pirate]

You might "get it" if you had kids one day. 

Honestly
-more space than any SUV out there
-better gas mileage than most SUVs
-easier to transport washer/dryer etc... -can you fit a washer into the side door of an Audi? I moved my entire 5-person house (except for a queen bed) Inside my van.
-not as huge as a regular van (although I'd take a Dodge Sprinter if I could afford one (and afford to customize it some))
-each kid gets a seat far enough away from each other to not have to hear "(s)he's on my side!"

I don't have kids, and I sort of want a minivan.  Take out the seats, and have totally secure storage for my bikes, loads of room for camping gear, etc.  Not to mention total stealth on the highway.

[MX793]

I don't have kids, and I sort of want a minivan.  Take out the seats, and have totally secure storage for my bikes, loads of room for camping gear, etc.  Not to mention total stealth on the highway.

To tell you the truth, I'd almost be tempted to pick up a cheap used one as a stuff carrier/hauler and winter beater.

[CJ]

I almost had a 2001 Town & Country Limited for my first car.  I wanted it badly, but then I found the 940 and got it instead. 

[rohan]

You might "get it" if you had kids one day. 

Honestly
-more space than any SUV out there
-better gas mileage than most SUVs
-easier to transport washer/dryer etc... -can you fit a washer into the side door of an Audi? I moved my entire 5-person house (except for a queen bed) Inside my van.
-not as huge as a regular van (although I'd take a Dodge Sprinter if I could afford one (and afford to customize it some))
-each kid gets a seat far enough away from each other to not have to hear "(s)he's on my side!"

I'ld bet it's not much bigger than a Durango- bigger but not a lot bigger and I'ld bet it's zero bigger than an Excusion ro Suburban.    Definately taller inside than a suv though. 

I don't have kids, and I sort of want a minivan.  Take out the seats, and have totally secure storage for my bikes, loads of room for camping gear, etc.  Not to mention total stealth on the highway.

I'll prove that one completely wrong with 10 seconds-  a sparkplug-  and a pair of gloves.  And we don't care what the vehicle is if it's speeding we stop it.  By the way you don't think we don't look hard at minivans with them using them for drug mules?  Keep thinking that! 

[Cookie Monster]

I'ld bet it's not much bigger than a Durango- bigger but not a lot bigger and I'ld bet it's zero bigger than an Excusion ro Suburban.    Definately taller inside than a suv though. 


I'll prove that one completely wrong with 10 seconds-  a sparkplug-  and a pair of gloves.  And we don't care what the vehicle is if it's speeding we stop it.  By the way you don't think we don't look hard at minivans with them using them for drug mules?  Keep thinking that! 

I thought he was talking about being able to strap down his bikes so they don't move.

[The Pirate]

I'ld bet it's not much bigger than a Durango- bigger but not a lot bigger and I'ld bet it's zero bigger than an Excusion ro Suburban.    Definately taller inside than a suv though. 


I'll prove that one completely wrong with 10 seconds-  a sparkplug-  and a pair of gloves.  And we don't care what the vehicle is if it's speeding we stop it.  By the way you don't think we don't look hard at minivans with them using them for drug mules?  Keep thinking that! 

Yes, poor wording on my part.  But, my point was that the bike would be safer inside a van than in the bed of a pick up truck or on the roof of a car (where it is transported now).

As for your second statement, I've never done a ride along nor have I seen a departments statistics of traffic enforcement, so you would know better than I.  But my experience has shown that minivans are pulled over less.  Anecdotal, but I've never been pulled over in any of mom's minivans.  I have been pulled over for traveling at lesser speeds than in said mininvan in my car (there has to be a better way to word this sentence, but I'm tired, so it'll do). 

Like I said (should have mentioned in the original post, I guess), in my experience. 

[The Pirate]

I thought he was talking about being able to strap down his bikes so they don't move.

No, rohan was correct.  I was talking about being able to store the bike inside (out of sight with tinted windows and all that), which is more secure from theft than on the roof of the vehicle.  But, yeah, locks only keep the honest man honest.

[Cookie Monster]

No, rohan was correct.  I was talking about being able to store the bike inside (out of sight with tinted windows and all that), which is more secure from theft than on the roof of the vehicle.  But, yeah, locks only keep the honest man honest.

Oh, I see.

I lock my bike to the rack when going anywhere but I don't trust it enough to leave it alone for long periods of time.

[ifcar]

I'ld bet it's not much bigger than a Durango- bigger but not a lot bigger and I'ld bet it's zero bigger than an Excusion ro Suburban.    Definately taller inside than a suv though. 

Cargo volume, cubic feet:

Durango: 102.4
Suburban: 137.4
Excursion: 146.4
Toyota Sienna: 148.9

The only one that comes close is more than two feet longer and eight inches higher, and it still isn't as spacious.

[AutobahnSHO]

The New Caravan has 144.4 ft of cargo room available. PLUS the step-in / lift-in height makes a HUGE difference. Sure you have to remove the seats for max room, but you get WAY BETTER gas mileage than an SUV. 16/23 mpg for the minivan.
The BEST gas mileage (2wd) Ford Explorer gets 14/20 mpg, the Excursion 8/12.

Minivan are undisputably better handlers on-road.
Anyone that thinks SUVs are better than a minivan for anything but going offroad is bonkers.
For those that have fragile egos, "crossovers" are still not as spacious as a minivan, can't perform like an SUV, but at least they won't risk getting made fun of.

(I love the Ford Flex though, I'd buy one tomorrow if I could manage the payment$.)

http://www.allpar.com/model/m/2008-minivans.html
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/05/ford-explorer-gas-mileage/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Excursion

[ifcar]

Anyone that thinks SUVs are better than a minivan for anything but going offroad is bonkers.

Don't forget towing.

[AutobahnSHO]

Don't forget towing.

Ok, minivans can't tow as much. Because ALL those SUVs and trucks I see have giant boats attached to them.

[ifcar]

Ok, minivans can't tow as much. Because ALL those SUVs and trucks I see have giant boats attached to them.

Rohan tows a boat, as I recall.

Besides, someone who tows doesn't necessarily have a big trailer behind him all the time. Even once a month would be considered very frequent use.

[2o6]

We've got a 99' Grand Voyager (3.8L) with a coolant leak.........

[AutobahnSHO]

We've got a 99' Grand Voyager (3.8L) with a coolant leak.........

Congrats.    I care why?   

[AutobahnSHO]

Besides, someone who tows doesn't necessarily have a big trailer behind him all the time. Even once a month would be considered very frequent use.

I agree. But again, the majority of SUV/ truck drivers (at least in areas where it doesn't dump snow,) have no need for them.
A large number of them really need the space a minivan delivers but are sheeple who follow the "minivans are for soccer moms" bell...

[ifcar]

I agree. But again, the majority of SUV/ truck drivers (at least in areas where it doesn't dump snow,) have no need for them.
A large number of them really need the space a minivan delivers but are sheeple who follow the "minivans are for soccer moms" bell...

You're preaching to the choir on this one.

[2o6]

Congrats.    I care why?   

You could buy it. 

[AutobahnSHO]

You're preaching to the choir on this one.

doh. Silly me.

[rohan]

The New Caravan has 144.4 ft of cargo room available. PLUS the step-in / lift-in height makes a HUGE difference. Sure you have to remove the seats for max room, but you get WAY BETTER gas mileage than an SUV. 16/23 mpg for the minivan.
The BEST gas mileage (2wd) Ford Explorer gets 14/20 mpg, the Excursion 8/12.

Minivan are undisputably better handlers on-road.
Anyone that thinks SUVs are better than a minivan for anything but going offroad is bonkers.
For those that have fragile egos, "crossovers" are still not as spacious as a minivan, can't perform like an SUV, but at least they won't risk getting made fun of.

(I love the Ford Flex though, I'd buy one tomorrow if I could manage the payment$.)

http://www.allpar.com/model/m/2008-minivans.html
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/05/ford-explorer-gas-mileage/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Excursion

I can get 22 to 23 with the Durango highway and even if the Expedition only gets 20 vs 23 3 isn't "WAY BETTER".  And if you spring for a hybrid then it's a toss up- and the diesels like the Cherokee kick the van's asses on mpg's.  They also can tow way way more (hounddog proved that) and do way way better in foul weather. 

[TBR]

I can get 22 to 23 with the Durango highway and even if the Expedition only gets 20 vs 23 3 isn't "WAY BETTER".  And if you spring for a hybrid then it's a toss up- and the diesels like the Cherokee kick the van's asses on mpg's.  They also can tow way way more (hounddog proved that) and do way way better in foul weather. 

The Tahoe Hybrid (which isn't even remotely as useful as a minivan for cargo and people hauling) gets 22mpg on the highway and the Honda Oddyssey gets 25 mpg. The Tahoe's base price is $15k higher than the most comparably equipped Odyssey model which actually has more equipment. Foul weather performance kind of depends on what kind of foul weather you're talking about. In rain my money is on the minivan, in the snow I suppose a 4wd SUV might have a slight edge over an AWD Sienna because it has more ground clearance.

Towing, yeah of course a SUV will do better, but most people don't tow.

[rohan]

AWD is never going to be as good on ice or snowy road as 4x4- never gonna happen not even close.   And the HTahoe gets 20 city when the other ones getting 16-18 where most people with minivans are driving.  Plus he said Chrysler van gets 23 so that's only one better than the Htahoe and 4 worse in the city.  

[MX793]

AWD is never going to be as good on ice or snowy road as 4x4- never gonna happen not even close.   And the HTahoe gets 20 city when the other ones getting 16-18 where most people with minivans are driving.  Plus he said Chrysler van gets 23 so that's only one better than the Htahoe and 4 worse in the city. 

AWD is actually better in spotty weather.  Locked 4x4 needs to be disengaged when on dry road (unless you're going in a straight line) or else it will bind up and scrub tires when turning.  AWD gives you power to 4 wheels while allowing you to turn on bare pavement in conditions where the roads are patchy with ice and snow.

[rohan]

AWD is actually better in spotty weather.  Locked 4x4 needs to be disengaged when on dry road (unless you're going in a straight line) or else it will bind up and scrub tires when turning.  AWD gives you power to 4 wheels while allowing you to turn on bare pavement in conditions where the roads are patchy with ice and snow.

Why would you have 4x4 on in dry roads? Besides it's not like turning off a modern 4x4 is hard or anything- turn a knob and it's off.   Most SUVs have AWD for light conditions anyway like mine.  There's also a mpg penalty for AWD so AWD vans are about the same as most SUVs on gas.  

[AutobahnSHO]

Who buys a diesel Cherokee in the US??

so the mileage thing isn't as drastic as I was thinking- comparing interior room again, it's still an SUV-lose situation for 70%+ of the drivers, since they DON'T tow and DON'T go off-roading..  (my guess on percentage.)

[rohan]

I saw one yesterday on the back where a Hemi plaque would normally go it said 3.0l Diesel.  I wonder what the mileage for it actually is? 

[TBR]

AWD is never going to be as good on ice or snowy road as 4x4- never gonna happen not even close.   And the HTahoe gets 20 city when the other ones getting 16-18 where most people with minivans are driving.  Plus he said Chrysler van gets 23 so that's only one better than the Htahoe and 4 worse in the city.  

The Tahoe costs some $15k more despite having a fraction of the functionality.

Combined averages:
Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid: 21
Dodge Grand Caravan: 20
Honda Odyssey: 20
Nissan Quest: 19
Toyota Sienna: 19
Kia Sedona: 18
Dodge Durango: 17
Chevrolet Suburban/Tahoe: 17
Ford Expedition: 15
Nissan Armada: 15
Toyota Sequioa: 15

All vehicles are with the most efficient powertrain (meaning 2WD and, oddly enough, the larger engine in every case).

So, throw out the rather irrelevant Tahoe Hybrid for value reasons and the minivans have a solid lead in fuel economy. They also have a solid lead in value, handling, ride, passenger comfort, passenger room, and cargo room. SUVs are more stylish, can tow better, can offroad better (though let's not pretend that fullsize suvs are worth much offroad), and handle better in snow.