Say goodbye to Mustang's sequential turn signals

[SVT666]

NHTSA considering amber turn signal mandate
07/02/2009, 2:51 PMBY ANDREW GANZ

 


While many cars sold in North America feature red turn signal indicators built into their rear light clusters, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says that the amber signals installed in some cars can be more than 5 percent more effective at preventing wrecks than their red counterparts, which the agency says blend too much with brake lights.

The agency says it is considering mandating orange turn signals, rather than allow automakers to choose the color, for the near future.

European countries have long required orange turn signals for the rear, while the United States Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108. has not regulated the color.

Analysts say that the change would not be costly for automakers since it would merely require a change in lens color.

[ifcar]

Even if this did come to fruition, it's years away. It would be contrary to history for the Mustang to have sequential turn signals for too long.

[giant_mtb]

Blend too much?!  Not cost too much?  Do they not realize that virtually every car would then have to have separate brake and turn signals since a large majority of cars (that I know of, anyways) USE THE SAME LENS for both brake and turn signals?

Five percent?  Jesus, that's probably just the old people that can't see well enough to be fucking driving to begin with.  How does one not see the difference between 8 watts and 30 watts flashing?

[MX793]

They could still do sequentials, they'd just be amber instead of red (and they'd need to implement a second set of red bulbs/LEDs for the brakelights).

I've felt that amber turn signals were better for quite some time.  IIRC, my uncle was in an accident years ago because he thought a car was turning right and when he passed on the left the vehicle suddenly turned left.  Turned out that the car's left brake light and turn signal were burned out and the driver was pumping the brakes on their approach to the turn, making it look like they had their right blinker on.  This confusion wouldn't have happened if turn signals had to be amber.

[r0tor]

i always liked amber turn signals to be honest

[ifcar]

Blend too much?!  Not cost too much?  Do they not realize that virtually every car would then have to have separate brake and turn signals since a large majority of cars (that I know of, anyways) USE THE SAME LENS for both brake and turn signals?

Many cars already use amber lights. An increasing number use LED. What's so bad about separate bulbs anyway?

[giant_mtb]

They could still do sequentials, they'd just be amber instead of red (and they'd need to implement a second set of red bulbs/LEDs for the brakelights).

I've felt that amber turn signals were better for quite some time.  IIRC, my uncle was in an accident years ago because he thought a car was turning right and when he passed on the left the vehicle suddenly turned left.  Turned out that the car's left brake light and turn signal were burned out and the driver was pumping the brakes on their approach to the turn, making it look like they had their right blinker on.  This confusion wouldn't have happened if turn signals had to be amber.

So, two filaments in the bulb burnt out.  An amber bulb and the red bulb could burn out, too...two filaments.

[MX793]

Blend too much?!  Not cost too much?  Do they not realize that virtually every car would then have to have separate brake and turn signals since a large majority of cars (that I know of, anyways) USE THE SAME LENS for both brake and turn signals?

Five percent?  Jesus, that's probably just the old people that can't see well enough to be fucking driving to begin with.  How does one not see the difference between 8 watts and 30 watts flashing?

I think the bigger issue is the blinker blending in with the brake light when the brakes are applied (as they often are when turning, plus there's a lot of people who don't abide by the "signal, brake, turn" order of operations and signal while they're braking).  IIRC, there are some cars that have red turn signals that use a separate bulb for the signal and the brakes, meaning that both can be on at the same time and the blinker can blend in.  You also get confusion when people only have one functional brake lamp and they pump the brakes, making it appear as though they're signaling.

Presuming separate bulbs are used for the turn signals and the brake lamps, this could be fixed by simply changing the lens to have an amber section.

[giant_mtb]

How does a 30W bulb flashing at you blend in?  I just don't understand.  If half of your computer screen was constant and the other half was flashing, you wouldn't notice it?  If people have only one functional brake light, they should be pulled over and ticketed.  That's what the third brake light is for.  If that's flashing along with the one brake bulb that isn't out, doesn't it make sense that, gee, they must be hitting the brakes?  I just think it's more of a pure lack of people using common sense practices. 

[MX793]

So, two filaments in the bulb burnt out.  An amber bulb and the red bulb could burn out, too...two filaments.

The odds of losing two bulbs simultaneously are less than losing one.  That's one of the reasons that prompted the 3rd, center brake lamp.  Also, back in the day (and maybe still today), some vehicles used the same filament for both brake and turning, since both are the same wattage.  Lose the high wattage filament and you've lost both the brake signal and the turn signal on that side.

[MX793]

How does a 30W bulb flashing at you blend in?  I just don't understand.  If half of your computer screen was constant and the other half was flashing, you wouldn't notice it?  If people have only one functional brake light, they should be pulled over and ticketed.  That's what the third brake light is for.  If that's flashing along with the one brake bulb that isn't out, doesn't it make sense that, gee, they must be hitting the brakes?  I just think it's more of a pure lack of people using common sense practices. 

Um, because the brake lamp when the brake is on isn't only 8 watts?  The tail lamp is 8W, the brake signal is around 30, same as the blinker.

[giant_mtb]

Um, because the brake lamp when the brake is on isn't only 8 watts?  The tail lamp is 8W, the brake signal is around 30, same as the blinker.

...I'm aware of that...what's that got to do with it?  When a vehicle with a dual-filament rear brake/blinker bulb is braking and the turn signal is on, the bulb on the side that the vehicle is turning to oscilates between just the 8W filament and the 30W filament, while the other brake light and 3rd brake light remain constant.

How does someone not see that?  How does that "blend in"?  That's my question.

[MX793]

...I'm aware of that...what's that got to do with it?  When a vehicle with a dual-filament rear brake/blinker bulb is braking and the turn signal is on, the bulb on the side that the vehicle is turning to oscilates between just the 8W filament and the 30W filament, while the other brake light and 3rd brake light remain constant.

How does someone not see that?  How does that "blend in"?  That's my question.

Not always.  There are some vehicles that will have the steady bright brake light lit along with a red colored blinker.  Current Passats come to mind (brake lamp in center surrounded by a ring-shaped red blinker).

[93JC]

Trust me dude, it blends. I almost crashed into a guy yesterday while driving home because the glare from the sun made his red turn signal almost completely indistinguishable from his brake lights.

(can't remember what kind of car it was though...)

[giant_mtb]

Gah.  Nevermind then.  I've never had an issue with it.  Apparently others have.  Who cares.

[MX793]

Trust me dude, it blends. I almost crashed into a guy yesterday while driving home because the glare from the sun made his red turn signal almost completely indistinguishable from his brake lights.

(can't remember what kind of car it was though...)

I was behind a guy (or gal) in a pickup while driving west in the late afternoon who I thought had no functioning brakes or signals except the center lamp.  Then I realized the jackass had simply covered the tail lamp assemblies with those dark tinted lenses to make them look blacked out, as when I got closer I could see there was the faintest bit of light getting through.  Front lamps were also covered.  Why aren't those stupid things illegal?

[ChrisV]

No difference in a turn signal being out and one simply not used.

if someone ahead of you is hitting their brakes, you should be slowing down. If they are using their turn signal, you should be slowing down. it doesn't matter if you confuse a brake light and a turn signal, you should be slowing down. If you hit a car because YOU confused a brake light and a turn signal, when millions of drivers have no problem with it, it's YOUR fault, not the signal's fault.

The signal isn't the problem, it's lack of personal responsibility.

Life does NOT guarantee your safety. If you want to be guaranteed safe when driving, DON'T.

So how long until we are required to be wrapped up in bubble wrap so we don't run the risk of getting a boo boo from someone else?

[ifcar]

Not always.  There are some vehicles that will have the steady bright brake light lit along with a red colored blinker.  Current Passats come to mind (brake lamp in center surrounded by a ring-shaped red blinker).

The 2000-era Taurus is another I'm thinking of.

[giant_mtb]

No difference in a turn signal being out and one simply not used.

if someone ahead of you is hitting their brakes, you should be slowing down. If they are using their turn signal, you should be slowing down. it doesn't matter if you confuse a brake light and a turn signal, you should be slowing down. If you hit a car because YOU confused a brake light and a turn signal, when millions of drivers have no problem with it, it's YOUR fault, not the signal's fault.

The signal isn't the problem, it's lack of personal responsibility.

Life does NOT guarantee your safety. If you want to be guaranteed safe when driving, DON'T.

So how long until we are required to be wrapped up in bubble wrap so we don't run the risk of getting a boo boo from someone else?

+18043890743.  What I was getting at, but much better put.

[ifcar]

No difference in a turn signal being out and one simply not used.

if someone ahead of you is hitting their brakes, you should be slowing down. If they are using their turn signal, you should be slowing down. it doesn't matter if you confuse a brake light and a turn signal, you should be slowing down. If you hit a car because YOU confused a brake light and a turn signal, when millions of drivers have no problem with it, it's YOUR fault, not the signal's fault.

The signal isn't the problem, it's lack of personal responsibility.

Life does NOT guarantee your safety. If you want to be guaranteed safe when driving, DON'T.

So how long until we are required to be wrapped up in bubble wrap so we don't run the risk of getting a boo boo from someone else?

Are you opposed to the idea of an amber turn signal or just objecting on the principle that anything done for safety reasons is pointless because people survived just fine without it?

[Cookie Monster]

5 percent? Oh noes!

Jeez, this is getting retarded.

It's not a big deal for me but the need to regulate everything is pissing me off.

[hotrodalex]

What about the white turn signals that you can get on Mini's?

[93JC]

No difference in a turn signal being out and one simply not used.

if someone ahead of you is hitting their brakes, you should be slowing down. If they are using their turn signal, you should be slowing down. it doesn't matter if you confuse a brake light and a turn signal, you should be slowing down. If you hit a car because YOU confused a brake light and a turn signal, when millions of drivers have no problem with it, it's YOUR fault, not the signal's fault.

The signal isn't the problem, it's lack of personal responsibility.

Life does NOT guarantee your safety. If you want to be guaranteed safe when driving, DON'T.

So how long until we are required to be wrapped up in bubble wrap so we don't run the risk of getting a boo boo from someone else?

Changing the law to require an amber light instead of red is being "wrapped in a bubble"?

By that line of reasoning, why have coloured traffic signals? Why not have the law written "top/left light means stop, bottom/right light means go"?

[ChrisV]

Are you opposed to the idea of an amber turn signal or just objecting on the principle that anything done for safety reasons is pointless because people survived just fine without it?

I'm opposed to people using lowest common denominator regulations to make up for their own failure to pay attention.

They want to regulate this, but how are the people who are having the problem going to deal with the fact that cars will still be on the road that predate the regulation? Are they going to freak out and crash because they suddenly get behind a 2009 Malibu that doesn't have amber turn signals?

[Cookie Monster]

What about the white turn signals that you can get on Mini's?

They have yellow bulbs so it doesn't matter.

[hotrodalex]

Changing the law to require an amber light instead of red is being "wrapped in a bubble"?

By that line of reasoning, why have coloured traffic signals? Why not have the law written "top/left light means stop, bottom/right light means go"?

That's all I look at. The only time I really pay attention to color is when I'm very far away from the light and can't tell.

[Cookie Monster]

That's all I look at. The only time I really pay attention to color is when I'm very far away from the light and can't tell.

I don't pay attention to the placement of lights.

All I know is Red = stop, Green = go, and Yellow = go faster.

[hotrodalex]

They have yellow bulbs so it doesn't matter.

Oh okay. I've built a couple Mini's on their site and always thought the option was for completely white turn signals, not just lenses.

[ChrisV]

5 percent? Oh noes!

Jeez, this is getting retarded.

It's not a big deal for me but the need to regulate everything is pissing me off.

Exactly.

We're looking at the wrong area, as usual. hundreds of millions of people get by without crashing into cars with red turn signals. So we have to change everything because 5% of the public can't pay attention? FIX THAT 5%!

[ifcar]

I'm opposed to people using lowest common denominator regulations to make up for their own failure to pay attention.

They want to regulate this, but how are the people who are having the problem going to deal with the fact that cars will still be on the road that predate the regulation? Are they going to freak out and crash because they suddenly get behind a 2009 Malibu that doesn't have amber turn signals?

So because an imperfect situation couldn't be immediately corrected, it should be ignored altogether?

Good idea.