Quick take: Two Volvos

[the Teuton]

Working at a high-volume rental car place, it's not often I find anything more than mundane at best and mediocre at worst.  In a sea of Cobalts, Impalas, and Grand Caravans, cars start to feel less like a passion and more like appliances.  You start empathizing with Camry owners.  You start thinking the Lexus ES might just be the be-all of pragmatic luxury.

But every once in a while, there are days when a little variety sneaks up on you. At the Volvo-Jaguar dealer, I was expecting to pick up a Corolla or some small SUV we usually lend them to use as loaners. But today as I was checking out the new XF R, the desk attendant informed me that wouldn't be the case.

Instead, I found two Swedish meatballs, as we had them in for service to get warranty work done.

The first up was a 2009 Volvo S60 2.5T. Still based on the older P2 platform that dates back to 1997, the S60 looked sleek, sexy, curvaceous.  As I got in it, it felt like the car wrapped around me, with thin pillars blocking very little visibility.  Welcome back to the '90s, indeed.

On driving it, the suspension felt still but compliant. Volvo engineers apparently felt that feeling every rut in the road gave it an impression of sportiness. Well dampened it might have been, but the springs were far too stiff for what it was. It felt heavy in each bump. In the same vein of substance equaling sport, the steering felt very substantial. At parking lot speeds, its heft was more than I had ever felt in a car outside of our old non-power steering 1991 Civic. On the road, it felt much more natural, more so than the E90 3er, in my opinion.

As for the interior, none of the plastics felt particularly cheap, and the seats were perhaps the best I've ever sat in in a car.  For a small lux car, perfect wouldn't be too strong of a description.

That is, until I got to drive the V70.  Based on the newer Y20 platform from the S80, it's sort of a middle ground between the old S60 and new S80, both in size and substance.

Immediately, every problem I had with the old S60 seem to be solved.  The steering was lighter, the seats had the same bolstering, but they seemed wider, more comfortable.  Where there were just fine grain plastics in the S60, the V70 had wood, softer plastics, and leather on a dash that seemed better-suited for an IKEA store than a car. The waterfall design makes for a user-friendly, stylish layout. The only ergonomic problem I had with it was the wider pillars that made front visibility a little awkward onto the main roads.

The interior seems bigger in every dimension, especially in the back seat.  And better.

As for the performance, the 3.2 liter I6 in the V70 puts out 235 hp -- 27 more than the old turbo 2.5 in the S60.  While it seemed much more relaxed than the 2.5, the 3.2 also seemed much more refined.  The 2.5 had some pretty bad lag under 2,500 RPM, but the naturally aspirated 3.2 just works better.  New to the V70 versus the more basic S60 is a manumatic, which surprisingly will hold a gear until redline.  Try that in a BMW!

But alas, neither are BMWs.  They are slower, FWD, a bit better-appointed, cheaper, and nowhere close to being as sporty, try as they might.  And truth be told, they shouldn't be trying. They are excellent entry lux cars with a badge that doesn't say "me, too."  They're ES350s for people who want some personality, some passion, and some utility in their luxury sedans and not just a badge on a leather-lined Camry.

[the Teuton]

Sorry if it's rough.  I just did it off-the-cuff.

[ifcar]

Somehow, I think if you asked the average Volvo buyer why they picked their car over a Lexus you'd hear "safety" more than "passion."

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think you need to drive a C30.

[the Teuton]

Somehow, I think if you asked the average Volvo buyer why they picked their car over a Lexus you'd hear "safety" more than "passion."

I don't think about where all 16 airbags are every time I get into the car.  It's just not my thing.  The quirks made the car, well, Swedish, and it didn't feel generic.

[ifcar]

I don't think about where all 16 airbags are every time I get into the car.  It's just not my thing.  The quirks made the car, well, Swedish, and it didn't feel generic.

That's nice, but doesn't answer what I said. I think you're misinterpreting the motivations of people who buy actually Volvos.

[the Teuton]

That's nice, but doesn't answer what I said. I think you're misinterpreting the motivations of people who buy actually Volvos.

People buy Volvos because of passivity, as most people who buy milder lux cars do.  Not having to worry is a luxury in and of itself.

[ifcar]

People buy Volvos because of passivity, as most people who buy milder lux cars do.  Not having to worry is a luxury in and of itself.

Isn't that the same reason people buy Lexuses?

[the Teuton]

Isn't that the same reason people buy Lexuses?

Pretty much.

What's your point?

[ifcar]

Pretty much.

What's your point?

You said:

"They're ES350s for people who want some personality, some passion, and some utility in their luxury sedans and not just a badge on a leather-lined Camry."

And I'd disagree that's what draws someone to Volvo. They're brought in based on the misconception that Volvos do better in crashes than other new cars, not because they want more passion than a Lexus ES offers. I'd expect most would laugh out loud at the idea of any "passion" in their Volvos, too.

[the Teuton]

You said:

"They're ES350s for people who want some personality, some passion, and some utility in their luxury sedans and not just a badge on a leather-lined Camry."

And I'd disagree that's what draws someone to Volvo. They're brought in based on the misconception that Volvos do better in crashes than other new cars, not because they want more passion than a Lexus ES offers. I'd expect most would laugh out loud at the idea of any "passion" in their Volvos, too.

This is becoming a semantics debate.  I didn't say anyone really would.  I'm not the target market for this car.  I was just giving my outsider's perspective on what I saw and drove.

[ifcar]

This is becoming a semantics debate.  I didn't say anyone really would.  I'm not the target market for this car.  I was just giving my outsider's perspective on what I saw and drove.

Okay. Perhaps I misunderstood.

[Vinsanity]

In the same vein of substance equaling sport, the steering felt very substantial. At parking lot speeds, its heft was more than I had ever felt in a car outside of our old non-power steering 1991 Civic. On the road, it felt much more natural, more so than the E90 3er, in my opinion.

As for the interior, none of the plastics felt particularly cheap, and the seats were perhaps the best I've ever sat in in a car.  For a small lux car, perfect wouldn't be too strong of a description.

Regarding the steering and the seats, that is the Volvo way

Although with that in mind, the steering in the 1st-gen S80 is much lighter than what I would have expected. Probably to more closely mimic its competitors or something.

[Hachee]

And in my experience with an S60 (a 2.5, non-turbo), I thought the steering was way too light and the whole drive had a generic feel.  I didn't feel the heft I expected.  However, a friend has one and I'm a passenger frequently, and it's comfortable and feels pretty solid. 

[omicron]

Modern Volvos are lovely places in which to sit - the seats are comfortable, the vision is outstanding, the controls are logically-arranged and within easy reach, and so on. Volvos are one of the few cars these days in which you can look out over the dashboard and bonnet instead of being dwarfed by acres of dash plastic and having to simply guess at where the front of the car is, and I do love that.

From what I've read, the C30 and S40s, particularly the T5 variants, are quite good drivers' cars. I do hope so.

[Madman]

I'd expect most would laugh out loud at the idea of any "passion" in their Volvos, too.

NEWSFLASH: There are plenty of Volvo owners who are "passionate" about their cars!  And it isn't just all about safety, either.  Volvos are individual cars that make no attempts to imitate anything else.  They are what they are and they make no apologies for it.  You either "get it" or you don't.

Most Volvo owners (myself included) wouldn't be caught dead in a Lexus!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[CALL_911]

NEWSFLASH: There are plenty of Volvo owners who are "passionate" about their cars!  And it isn't just all about safety, either.  Volvos are individual cars that make no attempts to imitate anything else.  They are what they are and they make no apologies for it.  You either "get it" or you don't.

Most Volvo owners (myself included) wouldn't be caught dead in a Lexus!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

The S80 (lets use that as an example) has no identity! It's every bit as bland as a Lexus, but it looks better. It doesn't make apologies for its identity because it doesn't have one!

It's a fine car, but somehow, I see the S80 appealing to the same people who buy ES350s.

[Vinsanity]

From what I've read, the C30 and S40s, particularly the T5 variants, are quite good drivers' cars. I do hope so.

They definitely are. The NA straight-5 S40 is more Jetta than BMW, but the T5 steps it up pretty nicely. It aims harder to please than say, a TSX.

[Vinsanity]

It's a fine car, but somehow, I see the S80 appealing to the same people who buy ES350s.

+1

My parents had cross-shopped those two cars, and my boss who had her old S80 for like 8 years since they first came out just bought (leased?) a Genesis sedan last year. Heck, even I looked at both the S80 and Lexus ES used, of course.

[CALL_911]

The Volvo I have the most experience with is the XC90.

It's comfortable, doesn't look terrible for an SUV, and is nice inside. However, it's devoid of any "passion." As far as I can see, it's an appliance. There's nothing even remotely exciting about it. It's a good car, and it does what it's meant for well, but passion? Yeah.....

I've been in most new Volvos except the C70 and XC60, and I fail to see how they're any better than middle-of-the-road.

[Vinsanity]

The S60 is overdue for a redesign. But I guess that's also the Volvo way. At least it's aged better than any of its competitors from 2001, IMO.

The S80 has a very nice interior, and would be the best non-sporty luxury sedan under $50k if the Genesis sedan had never come out.

[CALL_911]

The S60 is overdue for a redesign. But I guess that's also the Volvo way. At least it's aged better than any of its competitors from 2001, IMO.

The S80 has a very nice interior, and would be the best non-sporty luxury sedan under $50k if the Genesis sedan had never come out.

I'm with you on the second point.

However, as for the first:



That particular one is from 2002+, but it's the same basic thing. In fact, I like the look of the '99-'01 more. I long for a 2001 330i sport.

[Madman]

The S80 (lets use that as an example) has no identity! It's every bit as bland as a Lexus, but it looks better. It doesn't make apologies for its identity because it doesn't have one!

Oh, really?  Look at an S80 from 100 feet away and you'll know instantly it's a Volvo.  Look at an ES350 from 100 feet away and it could be any one of a dozen mediocre Japboxes.  That's called Identity!  The protruding vertical grille, V-shaped hood (bonnet), tall glasshouse, broad shoulders, sculpted flanks and unique tail lights all announce to the world "I am a Volvo"  And the Toyo... urm, I mean Lexus?  Errr, ......... Let me get back to you on that one!

Cheers,
Madman of the People

[Cookie Monster]

Oh, really?  Look at an S80 from 100 feet away and you'll know instantly it's a Volvo.  Look at an ES350 from 100 feet away and it could be any one of a dozen mediocre Japboxes.  That's called Identity!  The protruding vertical grille, V-shaped hood (bonnet), tall glasshouse, broad shoulders, sculpted flanks and unique tail lights all announce to the world "I am a Volvo"  And the Toyo... urm, I mean Lexus?  Errr, ......... Let me get back to you on that one!

Cheers,
Madman of the People

That's just your bias talking.

[Vinsanity]

The E46 and E90 sedans always seemed a bit generic to me. The sport packages help alot, but the same treatment on an S60 would be more visually attractive to me.

[CALL_911]

Oh, really?  Look at an S80 from 100 feet away and you'll know instantly it's a Volvo.  Look at an ES350 from 100 feet away and it could be any one of a dozen mediocre Japboxes.  That's called Identity!  The protruding vertical grille, V-shaped hood (bonnet), tall glasshouse, broad shoulders, sculpted flanks and unique tail lights all announce to the world "I am a Volvo"  And the Toyo... urm, I mean Lexus?  Errr, ......... Let me get back to you on that one!

Cheers,
Madman of the People

The S80 isn't recognizable at all, it's a very generic sedan. Every bit as generic as the ES, I just think it looks better.

They're gonna start using them in insurance commercials soon.

[the Teuton]

Passion doesn't always mean driving personality.  In the case of the Volvo, it means a certain kind of crispness, attention to detail, and just Swedish quirk that they still care to make their cars unique.

And Volvo really does succeed at those on all accounts.

[CALL_911]

Passion doesn't always mean driving personality.  In the case of the Volvo, it means a certain kind of crispness, attention to detail, and just Swedish quirk that they still care to make their cars unique.

And Volvo really does succeed at those on all accounts.

Thing is, the attention to detail and whatnot is evident in a Lexus. I've noticed the Swedish quirks in Saabs, but not so much modern Volvos.

As far as I'm concerned, Volvo is essentially a European Lexus, minus the C30.

[ifcar]

NEWSFLASH: There are plenty of Volvo owners who are "passionate" about their cars!  And it isn't just all about safety, either.  Volvos are individual cars that make no attempts to imitate anything else.  They are what they are and they make no apologies for it.  You either "get it" or you don't.

Most Volvo owners (myself included) wouldn't be caught dead in a Lexus!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

NEWSFLASH: There are lots of Camry owners who are passionate about their cars. Does that mean the results are typical?

[the Teuton]

I get the allure of a Volvo.

That being said, I still could see myself in a C30 someday.