Transit Connect sales starting out well

[omicron]

Exactly.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say I'm almost certain they don't have a small diesel that meets North American emissions standards. Right now our standards are roughly speaking equivalent to 'Euro VI', which I don't think even comes into force for another 2-5 years.

The PSA/Ford 2.0/2.2 diesel used in the Focus and Mondeo is certainly Euro IV-compliant, so perhaps that should be looked at.

[Galaxy]

The PSA/Ford 2.0/2.2 diesel used in the Focus and Mondeo is certainly Euro IV-compliant, so perhaps that should be looked at.

In fact Ford has several Euro V diesels but no Euro VI

[93JC]

Euro IV is not good enough. Euro V is not good enough.

[omicron]

Euro IV is not good enough. Euro V is not good enough.

Wait. I think I read the alphanumerals all wrong.

It's late, damnit!

[93JC]

IV = 4
V = 5
VI = 6

[omicron]

IV = 4
V = 5
VI = 6

It's all the same after a bit (lot) of wine and lack of sleep.

[S204STi]

Exactly.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say I'm almost certain they don't have a small diesel that meets North American emissions standards. Right now our standards are roughly speaking equivalent to 'Euro VI', which I don't think even comes into force for another 2-5 years.

I see.  So maybe once Euro VI comes into force we might start seeing more diesels in development which would pass our standards, but then you have to face a market which is still somewhat hostile towards diesel engines.  I wish it weren't the case, but unless you're one of the few people who have driven a Jetta TDI and realize what a great car it is, your impression of them would not be good.  We still have too many trucks on the road, modified or otherwise, which spew smoke at every stop light, they are expensive to option out, and they seem to demand costly repairs over time (at least in the light truck market).

[93JC]

It's fun trying to decipher when a film was made in the 20th century. MCMLXXXVIII, and such.

[93JC]

I see.  So maybe once Euro VI comes into force we might start seeing more diesels in development which would pass our standards, but then you have to face a market which is still somewhat hostile towards diesel engines.  I wish it weren't the case, but unless you're one of the few people who have driven a Jetta TDI and realize what a great car it is, your impression of them would not be good.  We still have too many trucks on the road, modified or otherwise, which spew smoke at every stop light, they are expensive to option out, and they seem to demand costly repairs over time (at least in the light truck market).

By the time Euro VI is in place I bet US standards will be even more stringent, making it moot.

Besides, diesel faces other hurdles in the US, notably the fact that the fuel itself is more expensive than gasoline which is the complete opposite of pretty much everywhere else in the world.

[omicron]

By the time Euro VI is in place I bet US standards will be even more stringent, making it moot.

Besides, diesel faces other hurdles in the US, notably the fact that the fuel itself is more expensive than gasoline which is the complete opposite of pretty much everywhere else in the world.

It's around ten cents a litre more expensive here than regular unleaded, and on par with premium.

[S204STi]

By the time Euro VI is in place I bet US standards will be even more stringent, making it moot.

Besides, diesel faces other hurdles in the US, notably the fact that the fuel itself is more expensive than gasoline which is the complete opposite of pretty much everywhere else in the world.

Yeah, good point about the fuel.  There was a chance back in like 07 when fuel prices were going inexorably upward that we might start to see a sufficient diesel-gap to make it work, but since then our fuel prices have dropped to tolerable levels... around $2 for 85 octane here.  Diesel is up around $2.50 or $2.60 while 91 octane is around $2.25 or so.  Simply not worth the extra cost for most people.

[93JC]

It's around ten cents a litre more expensive here than regular unleaded, and on par with premium.

In Europe it's much less. Here it's about seven cents less per litre than regular gasoline.

[the Teuton]

Kyoto Treaty what?

[93JC]

Pretty much. Euro emissions standards tend to focus on carbon monoxide (and by extension carbon dioxide) levels, with much less emphasis on unburned hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides and soot.

Say what you will about North American fuel consumption as a whole: the byproducts have been much cleaner (relatively) for the past 30+ years.

[S204STi]

Pretty much. Euro emissions standards tend to focus on carbon monoxide (and by extension carbon dioxide) levels, with much less emphasis on unburned hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides and soot.

Funny thing is, the unburned hydrocarbons, CO, NOx and soot are far more harmful in general than CO2, by a long shot.  I mean just take a look at the air quality improvements that most major metropolitan areas have experienced since emissions controls became increasingly stringent.  Now it's just a political game IMO. 

[93JC]

It's always been political. European countries favour consumption taxes based on engine size, engine power output, CO2 emissions: they've never really embraced cleaning up the tailpipe emissions. Look how long it took them to adopt catalytic converters.

It's ironic that the US is a market where diesel is particularly unpopular, because almost all advances in diesel emissions reductions have been driven by US legislation and the technology has been used in North America first. All this work goes into cleaning them up for us, and we're the ones who care the least.

[Madman]

They may not have a small diesel that is certified to pass our emissions standards.

Ford's 2.4 litre Duratorq diesel was US certified by London Taxis of North America.  If a tiny outfit like this can do it then certainly an industrial giant like Ford can do it, too.

Specifications for the LTI TXII:

http://www.london-fleet.com/specifications.htm


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[Cookie Monster]

Hey cool! I saw one of those a few days ago and didn't know WTF it was.

[Galaxy]

Ford's 2.4 litre Duratorq diesel was US certified by London Taxis of North America.  If a tiny outfit like this can do it then certainly an industrial giant like Ford can do it, too.

Specifications for the LTI TXII:

http://www.london-fleet.com/specifications.htm


Cheers,
Madman of the People

ANNOUNCEMENT (August 6th 2009)

As stated on this website on April 3rd 2009 the current economic environment has made it difficult to complete the work necessary to introduce a new version of the London Taxi into the U.S. market. Given these circumstances, our parent company, London Taxi International (LTI) has shut the operations of London Taxis North America, Inc as of August 1st 2009

I can guarantee you that "work necessary" includes getting the diesel to meet the current standards.

[Galaxy]

Pretty much. Euro emissions standards tend to focus on carbon monoxide (and by extension carbon dioxide) levels, with much less emphasis on unburned hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides and soot.

Say what you will about North American fuel consumption as a whole: the byproducts have been much cleaner (relatively) for the past 30+ years.

You are right in saying that Europe was disgracegully late in introducing the catalytic converter, which is the single most important device in cleaning car exhaust and the diesel soot filter could have been introduced a few years earlier. However hydrocarbons and other byproducts where also greatly reduced and Europe switched to ultra low sulpher diesel much earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

[ifcar]

How Ford is bringing the Transit Connect stateside:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125357990638429655.html

[2o6]

Why don't they offer the 5-passenger Wagovans too? I could see a number of uses for them.

[93JC]

They do, it's an option.

[ifcar]

Why don't they offer the 5-passenger Wagovans too? I could see a number of uses for them.

As the article said, they sell both. The van is more popular.

[S204STi]

Why don't they offer the 5-passenger Wagovans too? I could see a number of uses for them.

That would make for a great taxi.

[Madman]

That would make for a great taxi.

Been done.




Cheers,
Madman of the People

[ifcar]

Been done.




Cheers,
Madman of the People

It doesn't meet NYC's long-term gas mileage requirements. That's just a concept car.

[Eye of the Tiger]

2.0 Duratec does not have enuff powers for van. Needs 6.4 Power Stroke.

[Morris Minor]

To Outfox the Chicken Tax, Ford Strips Its Own Vans

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125357990638429655.html

By MATTHEW DOLAN

BALTIMORE -- Several times a month, Transit Connect vans from a Ford Motor Co. factory in Turkey roll off a ship here shiny and new, rear side windows gleaming, back seats firmly bolted to the floor.

Their first stop in America is a low-slung, brick warehouse where those same windows, never squeegeed at a gas station, and seats, never touched by human backsides, are promptly ripped out.



The Ford Transit Connect

The fabric is shredded, the steel parts are broken down, and everything is sent off along with the glass to be recycled.

Why all the fuss and feathers? Blame the "chicken tax."

The seats and windows are but dressing to help Ford navigate the wreckage of a 46-year-old trade spat. In the early 1960s, Europe put high tariffs on imported chicken, taking aim at rising U.S. sales to West Germany. President Johnson retaliated in 1963, in part by targeting German-made Volkswagens with a tax on imports of foreign-made trucks and commercial vans.

The 1960s went the way of love beads and sitar records, but the chicken tax never died. Europe still has a tariff on imports of U.S. chicken, and the U.S. still hits delivery vans imported from overseas with a 25% tariff. American companies have to pay, too, which puts Ford in the weird position of circumventing U.S. trade rules that for years have protected U.S. auto makers' market for trucks.

The company's wiggle room comes from the process of defining a delivery van. Customs officials check a bunch of features to determine whether a vehicle's primary purpose might be to move people instead. Since cargo doesn't need seats with seat belts or to look out the window, those items are on the list. So Ford ships all its Transit Connects with both, calls them "wagons" instead of "commercial vans." Installing and removing unneeded seats and windows costs the company hundreds of dollars per van, but the import tax falls dramatically, to 2.5 percent, saving thousands.


Ford designed its squat Transit Connect, seen here in New York, to haul goods through tight urban streets and use less fuel than large vans.

Customs officials won't discuss individual company's strategies, but Stephen Biegun, Ford's vice president for international governmental affairs, says the practice complies with the letter of the law. "We are free-traders, full stop," he says.

Foreign auto makers have long crossed swords with the chicken tax. Toyota Motor Corp., Nissan Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. took the straightforward route and built plants in the U.S.

Subaru, owned by Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. of Japan, imported a small pickup in the 1980s called the Bi-drive Recreational All-terrain Transporter, or BRAT. But it wasn't a taxable truck, because it had two lawn-chair-like seats bolted to the open bed. (President Reagan owned a red one, according to Subaru.)

With the globalization of the auto industry, American companies have joined the game. Until recently, Chrysler Group LLC imported Dodge Sprinter vans made in D?sseldorf, Germany, by former owner Daimler AG. The engine, transmission, axles and wheels were removed, allowing the truck bodies to cross the border as auto components, which aren't subject to the tax. Daimler then reassembled the vehicles at a factory in Ladson, S.C.

Ford launched the Transit Connect in 2002. The compact commercial van with a distinctive raised roof was designed to haul goods through urban areas with tight streets. Since then, more than 600,000 of the vehicles have been sold.

When gas prices spiked, Ford saw a market among small-business owners in the U.S. Prices start at $20,780, much lower than would have been possible if Ford had to cover the chicken tax. Sales are off to a fast start. In August, Ford sold more than 2,200 in the U.S.

"It's great for city driving," said Duff Goldman, owner of Charm City Cakes in Baltimore and star of Ace of Cakes on the Food Network. "It's shorter, smaller and has really good fuel economy." He bought a black Transit Connect last month. Since he doesn't carry passengers, his van has no windows or seats in the back.

The vans leave Turkey on cargo ships owned by Wallenius Wilhelmsen Logistics. Once they arrive in Baltimore, they are driven into a warehouse, where 65 workers from the shipping company's WWL Vehicle Services Americas Inc. convert them into commercial vehicles amid the blare of rock music and the whirring of industrial fans.

On a recent afternoon, a handful of vans passed through the warehouse unmolested as passenger wagons. But the vast majority were lined up to have windows pulled out, and they all had their rear seats removed.

In one lane, supervisor Robert Dowdy watched as two workers removed the rear side windows. They cut out the rubber seal with a special knife and popped out the glass using suction cups. The space is plugged with a metal panel that cures for 15 minutes before being tested outside for waterproofing.

At the start of that same lane, Mayso Lawrence unhooked a rear seat belt as easily as he would pop the top off a soda bottle. Using a drill, he quickly unscrewed six bolts to free the seats. Workers at the other end dump the seats into cardboard boxes, which are hoisted onto an open tractor-trailer and shipped to Ohio. Ford says the shredded seat fabric and foam become landfill cover, while the steel is processed for other uses.

"I never thought about why we take out the seats, but if that's what the customer wants, that's what we'll give them," Mr. Lawrence said.

With the seat removed, Mr. Lawrence puts in a new floor panel to cover the holes, toots the horn to signal he's finished, then gets to work on another van. The whole process takes him less than five minutes.

Rob Stevens, chief engineer for Ford's commercial vehicles, says the auto maker decided against shipping the seats back to Turkey for use in the next wave of vans for the U.S.

"We thought going through the recycling process was best," he said. "The steel is valuable."

[TBR]

Yay protectionism!