The Crown Victoria

[2o6]

I know we have some LEO's on this board, but what is the fascination with large cars such as the Expedition and Crown Victoria? I know the Expedition is used for prisoner transport, but the Crown Victoria is neither roomy nor does is it efficient. It really doesn't handle well, is grotesquely heavy, and has the chassis rigidity of a piece of white bread.


Why the apprehension to relatively good cars such as the Taurus and Charger? Surely those are more efficient and handle better.

[Vinsanity]

you can flog a Crown Vic all day, take it off road, and use it to pit maneuver every car in sight, and it will still ask for more. Not so much with the Taurus.

you should buy a Crown Vic.

[2o6]

you can flog a Crown Vic all day, take it off road, and use it to pit maneuver every car in sight, and it will still ask for more. Not so much with the Taurus.

you should buy a Crown Vic.

It doesn't handle well at all.

[Eye of the Tiger]

It's like a rock.

[Eye of the Tiger]

It doesn't handle well at all.

I doubt you've ever driven one.

[2o6]

I doubt you've ever driven one.

Compared to what the rest of the world uses?

[GoCougs]

It's popular with LE because it is mega cheap.

It should have gone out of production a decade ago.

[the Teuton]

And besides, with modern technology, police cars really don't have to be that quick.

[S204STi]

Nothing's faster than a radio...

Seems like this topic has already been beat senseless.

1. Large, roomy vehicle accommodates two LEOs and all their equipment.
2. RWD dynamics preferred over the current W-chassis Impala.
3. Rugged.
4. Dirt Cheap.
5. Fairly reliable.

[bing_oh]

LE vehicles have to fit a rather strict set of criteria. They have to be:

1. Large enough to hold a LEO in full duty rig for at least 8 hours, all of the associated equipment (computers, radios, emergency lighting, weapons, and a trunk full of specialized equipment big and small), and haul prisoners.
2. Rugged and durable enough to deal with constant driving at street speeds or lower, but be able to accelerate quickly and also maintain relatively high speeds. Also has to be able to possess the durability to do some extreme maneuvers, from turns in unpaved medians and shoulders to things like the PIT.
3. Relatively low maintenance.
4. High reliability.
5. Cheap enough to be purchased in large numbers by the government at lowest bid.

All in all, it's not an easy set of criteria to meet. And, not many car manufacturers are willing to put the time and money into developing a vehicle that meets thos criteria. The Crown Vic is still around because it's long established and is still being manufactured (for now). Chevy dropped out after the Caprice (though they're bringing it back) and Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles and still has to prove its reputation with the Charger.

[bing_oh]

And besides, with modern technology, police cars really don't have to be that quick.

Really? Why not?

[2o6]

Nothing's faster than a radio...

Seems like this topic has already been beat senseless.

1. Large, roomy vehicle accommodates two LEOs and all their equipment.

It's not roomy. Look at that utterly terrible space management.

versus




2. RWD dynamics preferred over the current W-chassis Impala.

Charger.

3. Rugged.
4. Dirt Cheap.
5. Fairly reliable.

LE vehicles have to fit a rather strict set of criteria. They have to be:

1. Large enough to hold a LEO in full duty rig for at least 8 hours, all of the associated equipment (computers, radios, emergency lighting, weapons, and a trunk full of specialized equipment big and small), and haul prisoners.
2. Rugged and durable enough to deal with constant driving at street speeds or lower, but be able to accelerate quickly and also maintain relatively high speeds. Also has to be able to possess the durability to do some extreme maneuvers, from turns in unpaved medians and shoulders to things like the PIT.
3. Relatively low maintenance.
4. High reliability.
5. Cheap enough to be purchased in large numbers by the government at lowest bid.

All in all, it's not an easy set of criteria to meet. And, not many car manufacturers are willing to put the time and money into developing a vehicle that meets thos criteria. The Crown Vic is still around because it's long established and is still being manufactured (for now). Chevy dropped out after the Caprice (though they're bringing it back) and Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles and still has to prove its reputation with the Charger.

Ah, OK.

[cawimmer430]

Crown Victoria's look great in movies. Enough said. 

[Raza]

Really? Why not?

I'm sure you've heard of radios, helicopters, and roadblocks.

[ifcar]

Yes, look at that terrible space management that means the car can be struck or used as a battering ram without losing its wheels.

[bing_oh]

I'm sure you've heard of radios, helicopters, and roadblocks.

Radios are obviously very useful, assuming that you can figure out where the suspect is going and that there's an officer in front of him. Otherwise, you'd need a fast police car to get in front of him. And, once of the police car is in front of him, what do they do then?

Helicopters are actually a rarity in law enforcement. The majority of LEO's in the US...more than 80% at last count...work for what is definted as "small departments," totalling less that 50 officers. Such departments rarely have helicopters themselves or access to helicopters from neighboring agencies. Helicopters are extremely expensive to purchase and maintain and require highly specialized officers to operate, meaning very expensive training.

Roadblocks have been ruled by the courts as deadly force, meaning that we can't use a roadblock without an exit option unless the offender presents an immediate threat of serious injury or death...the same standards as would limit us in the use of a firearm against the suspect. We do have access to Stop Sticks and other versions of road spikes, but offenders have been known drive on flats/rims after being spiked, so they're not 100% effective. And, again, you need to have a fast vehicle to be able to get in front of the suspect to deploy those spikes.

[TurboDan]

I know we have some LEO's on this board, but what is the fascination with large cars such as the Expedition and Crown Victoria? I know the Expedition is used for prisoner transport, but the Crown Victoria is neither roomy nor does is it efficient. It really doesn't handle well, is grotesquely heavy, and has the chassis rigidity of a piece of white bread.


Why the apprehension to relatively good cars such as the Taurus and Charger? Surely those are more efficient and handle better.

Judging by my own area, I don't think there's any apprehension to the Charger. Plenty of agencies are using it, from local PDs to the staties. Also, nobody around here ever really used Expeditions. Agencies that use SUVs have always used Durangos pretty much exclusively, from our local cops, to county sheriff to NJSP.

We even have one department around here (a beach town) that has a fleet of Jeep Wrangler police vehicles.

[Raza]

Radios are obviously very useful, assuming that you can figure out where the suspect is going and that there's an officer in front of him. Otherwise, you'd need a fast police car to get in front of him. And, once of the police car is in front of him, what do they do then?

Helicopters are actually a rarity in law enforcement. The majority of LEO's in the US...more than 80% at last count...work for what is definted as "small departments," totalling less that 50 officers. Such departments rarely have helicopters themselves or access to helicopters from neighboring agencies. Helicopters are extremely expensive to purchase and maintain and require highly specialized officers to operate, meaning very expensive training.

Roadblocks have been ruled by the courts as deadly force, meaning that we can't use a roadblock without an exit option unless the offender presents an immediate threat of serious injury or death...the same standards as would limit us in the use of a firearm against the suspect. We do have access to Stop Sticks and other versions of road spikes, but offenders have been known drive on flats/rims after being spiked, so they're not 100% effective. And, again, you need to have a fast vehicle to be able to get in front of the suspect to deploy those spikes.

I was thinking about highways, where you can probably get people ahead and lay down a spike strip or something like that. 

[bing_oh]

Judging by my own area, I don't think there's any apprehension to the Charger. Plenty of agencies are using it, from local PDs to the staties. Also, nobody around here ever really used Expeditions. Agencies that use SUVs have always used Durangos pretty much exclusively, from our local cops, to county sheriff to NJSP.

We even have one department around here (a beach town) that has a fleet of Jeep Wrangler police vehicles.

The Chargers seem to have caught on rather well, given Dodge's (poor) history with LE vehicles and how long they've been out of the competition.

I'm kinda surprised to hear that most of the departments in your area are using things like the Durango and Wrangler. So far as I know, neither are made in a pursuit-capable version. That's why the Expedition is popular for LE SUV's...they make a pursuit-capable model. Most SUV's are too top-heavy to be pursuit-rated.

[bing_oh]

I was thinking about highways, where you can probably get people ahead and lay down a spike strip or something like that.

Spike strips would actually be much easier for a bad guy to avoid on a limited access multi-lane highway. And, obviously, not all pursuits happen on the highway.

[Raza]

The Chargers seem to have caught on rather well, given Dodge's (poor) history with LE vehicles and how long they've been out of the competition.

I'm kinda surprised to hear that most of the departments in your area are using things like the Durango and Wrangler. So far as I know, neither are made in a pursuit-capable version. That's why the Expedition is popular for LE SUV's...they make a pursuit-capable model. Most SUV's are too top-heavy to be pursuit-rated.

My local PD has mostly Tahoes and Yukons (although I'm beginning to see more CVs).  A neighboring town has a Cherokee that they pull out when there's snow on the ground.  Locally, there are also two Impalas, one marked and one unmarked, both used to hand out tickets (the one marked car sits at one of two spots only, so it's easy to avoid), and there used to be one unmarked Grand Marquis, but I haven't seen it in years.  Go further from the town centers and you will see a handful of Chargers.

I see plenty of Durangos in New Jersey livery, though; usually Ewing. 

[giant_mtb]

It doesn't handle well at all.

Have you ever driven one?  Ah, didn't think so.  Besides the fact that it weighs a bunch, has some flex, and gets jittery over mid-turn bumps, it corners pretty flat, feels solid, and requires little effort on the steering wheel.  Point and shoot.  It's an easy car to handle, which I think is fine for an LEO since he has better things to worry about like, y'know, catching the guy or...making sure he's not going to hit someone...or...etc.  It's an easy car to drive.  It doesn't have to handle like a Corvette.  If it couldn't catch criminals, they wouldn't still be using it.

[TurboDan]

I see plenty of Durangos in New Jersey livery, though; usually Ewing. 

Funny, I'm in Ewing a lot and have only seen CVs there. Ewing cops have a tough job, trying to essentially protect a large municipality from invasion by the train wreck of Trenton, which it borders. They actually get a lot of help from Trenton PD, which is replacing their CVs with Chargers, and the Mercer County Sheriff, which also is a big Durango agency. I've noticed most of the Sheriff departments prefer the SUVs to the CVs, since they do very little patrol and mainly take care of crime scene investigations, fugitive tracking, search and rescue, and only do patrol to back up a municipal department when needed or if there is a big event around.

Bing - Interesting you mention the pursuit ratings. Even NJSP troopers use Durangos, and they pretty much do all the highway patrol. The only Expedition I've ever seen being used by the staties in NJ was the marine division to pull the boats out of the water when they need to. For the most part, none of our local PDs patrol highways, so maybe that's why they didn't mind going with a vehicle non-pursuit. Since my county is basically a bunch of beach towns, the Durangos are used primarily to patrol the beaches and parks. The NJ State Park Police actually have a fleet of Grand Cherokees.

Also, FWIW, one super-rich town actually has a Lexus SUV police vehicle. I'm assuming (hoping, for the sake of the taxpayers) it was confiscated. 

[bing_oh]

Bing - Interesting you mention the pursuit ratings. Even NJSP troopers use Durangos, and they pretty much do all the highway patrol. The only Expedition I've ever seen being used by the staties in NJ was the marine division to pull the boats out of the water when they need to. For the most part, none of our local PDs patrol highways, so maybe that's why they didn't mind going with a vehicle non-pursuit. Since my county is basically a bunch of beach towns, the Durangos are used primarily to patrol the beaches and parks. The NJ State Park Police actually have a fleet of Grand Cherokees.

I'd actually take a non pursuit-rated on the highway before I would on city streets. While you have the chance of much higher speeds on the highway, you also have much fewer sharp turns where an SUV's high center of gravity makes it a liability.

I just don't see using a non pursuit-rated SUV for patrol. Even if you have a department with a very strict pursuit policy, having a vehicle that's manuverable at high speeds is still a must for responding to hot calls. Not to mention that, if you want an SUV for patrol, they do make pursuit-rated ones (I believe both the Expedition and the Tahoe come in pursuit-rated RWD models).

[J86]

I'd actually take a non pursuit-rated on the highway before I would on city streets. While you have the chance of much higher speeds on the highway, you also have much fewer sharp turns where an SUV's high center of gravity makes it a liability.

I just don't see using a non pursuit-rated SUV for patrol. Even if you have a department with a very strict pursuit policy, having a vehicle that's manuverable at high speeds is still a must for responding to hot calls. Not to mention that, if you want an SUV for patrol, they do make pursuit-rated ones (I believe both the Expedition and the Tahoe come in pursuit-rated RWD models).

So you're saying the Explorers my island town (no freeway) has probably aren't too useful...

[Colonel Cadillac]

Aspen Colorado has PD XC90's.

I would say there is an equal number of CVs and Expedition/Explorer's where I'm from. PD Expeditions are pretty badass.

[CALL_911]

Aspen Colorado has PD XC90's.

I would say there is an equal number of CVs and Expedition/Explorer's where I'm from. PD Expeditions are pretty badass.

PD Expeditions are comfortable. I can personally vouch for that one.

[bing_oh]

So you're saying the Explorers my island town (no freeway) has probably aren't too useful...

They're useful for special purpose vehicles. For patrol work, I personally don't think so. But I'm just a road dog, not an adminstrator.

[The Phantom]

We went up to the snow last night (didn't drive very far) and saw a Durango.

I've seen a CHP Volvo sedan going over the Grapevine on I-5 in LA County before.

[TBR]

Evidently all hell broke lose between Birmingham and Tuscaloosa at about 4:00PM today as I saw the following vehicles with lights on coming East bound out of Tuscaloosa:

1 marked Tahoe
1 unmarked (civilian) Tahoe
1 unmarked (civilian I think) F-150
1 marked Mercedes GL (remember, the plant that manufactures the GL, ML, GLK, and R class is just outside of Tuscaloosa so that actually makes sense)
1 marked Durango
1 marked Crown Victoria

Also, evidently homeland security uses Tahoes as there are two interceptors outside of my hotel room in Jackson (and one, older Expedition).

And, by civilian I mean non-police special.