458 Italia road test- this will make you a believer

[GoCougs]

Nah, the traditional manual ain't nothing all that special. With a such an ultra responsive engine like this the DSG-style tranny is the way to go every level.

[Raza]

It's got damn near 600 HP. Better to let you focus on keeping it on the road than keeping it in its powerband. I think it's a good move on Ferarri's part.

Automanual trannys are not gimmicks. Their first sporting applications were in F1/rally cars.

They're not gimmicks in a race car.  In a road car, they absolutely are. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

How can you give a "thumbs up oh yeah" to flat out lies like that?

[Onslaught]

How can you give a "thumbs up oh yeah" to flat out lies like that?

Please tell me how liking one thing over the other for normal road use is a "flat out lie."

It's like saying people who like pop up headlamps are dumb because they're out of style.

[SVT666]

They're not gimmicks in a race car.  In a road car, they absolutely are. 

Exactly.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Please tell me how liking one thing over the other for normal road use is a "flat out lie."

It's like saying people who like pop up headlamps are dumb because they're out of style.

Ignorance is bliss, as they say. Sure, you're a liar, and an idiot, but at least you're happy with yourself.

[Onslaught]

Ignorance is bliss, as they say. Sure, you're a liar, and an idiot, but at least you're happy with yourself.

I don't care if someone calls me an idiot, motherfucker, dick head, jerk weed, asshole and so on.
But your punk ass better hope I never actually see you for calling me a liar.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I don't care if someone calls me an idiot, motherfucker, dick head, jerk weed, asshole and so on.
But your punk ass better hope I never actually see you for calling me a liar.

Maybe you shouldn't lie if you don't want to be a liar. 

[SVT666]

WTF is your problem NACar?

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

 

[SVT_Power]

What the hell is wrong with nick today 

[280Z Turbo]

What the hell is wrong with nick today 

He's become so silly that he's completely lost touch with reality.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Since when am I the one with the problem here? I point out how Onslot refuses to understand and remain ignorant of DSG's, flat out lies about it doing so even though he just admitted it, and gets pissy at me instead of smartening up.   

[sportyaccordy]

You're trolling bro

[Eye of the Tiger]

You're trolling bro

Absolutely not. People need to wake the fuck up.

[r0tor]

I don't have a problem with a DSG tranny.  I'm completely not a fan on conventional slushies with a torque converter as the torque converter can lead to the drivetrain commands feeling dampened when the torque converter isn't locked.

A dsg feels like a manual as far as powertrain response - thats what really feels the most rewarding to me personally

[S204STi]

I don't have a problem with a DSG tranny.  I'm completely not a fan on conventional slushies with a torque converter as the torque converter can lead to the drivetrain commands feeling dampened when the torque converter isn't locked.

A dsg feels like a manual as far as powertrain response - thats what really feels the most rewarding to me personally

I found the DSG equipped GTI that I drove back in 06 to be quite fun.  Snaps off shifts in a hurry, has all the engine braking/speed control of a manual but you don't have to think about it, just drive the thing.  Plus, no balky shifters in the winter.

[Raza]

I found the DSG equipped GTI that I drove back in 06 to be quite fun.  Snaps off shifts in a hurry, has all the engine braking/speed control of a manual but you don't have to think about it, just drive the thing.  Plus, no balky shifters in the winter.

And that, to me, is the failure of a DSG to replace a manual.  The DCTs should replace automatics completely (other than CVTs), as they are more efficient, but the driving experience will never match that of a proper manual.  I do not care about track times.

[mojammer]

If you're cruising in 5th gear with an auto-manual and you come up to a light, do you have to downshift through each gear to get to neutral?  Or if you are slowing down for a light and then it turns green when you're doing about 20mph, do you have to shift down through 4th and 3rd to get to 2nd?  If so that would be mildly annoying.

[BimmerM3]

If you're cruising in 5th gear with an auto-manual and you come up to a light, do you have to downshift through each gear to get to neutral?  Or if you are slowing down for a light and then it turns green when you're doing about 20mph, do you have to shift down through 4th and 3rd to get to 2nd?  If so that would be mildly annoying.

I would guess that it automatically downshifts at idle, or maybe like 500 rpms above idle.

[SVT666]

If you're cruising in 5th gear with an auto-manual and you come up to a light, do you have to downshift through each gear to get to neutral?  Or if you are slowing down for a light and then it turns green when you're doing about 20mph, do you have to shift down through 4th and 3rd to get to 2nd?  If so that would be mildly annoying.

Yes.  But you also could just stick it in "auto".  Or am I full of shit?

[SVT_Power]

Don't we have any DSG gearbox owners around? Does SJ_GTI have DSG?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Don't we have any DSG gearbox owners around? Does SJ_GTI have DSG?

I don't know of any. I drive traditional manuals, as I do prefer them.

[Cookie Monster]

And that, to me, is the failure of a DSG to replace a manual.  The DCTs should replace automatics completely (other than CVTs), as they are more efficient, but the driving experience will never match that of a proper manual.  I do not care about track times.

+100

And that is why I found Forza 3 played with a wheel with a 6 speed shifter and clutch so addicting. You can't just pull a paddle and let the game blip the throttle for you. You have to know how to ease on the gas and to not just dump the clutch after shifting. It's ridiculously fun BECAUSE you have to think about it, at least for me anyways.

[2o6]

Absolutely not. People need to wake the fuck up.

..........and drive.

[2o6]

+100

And that is why I found Forza 3 played with a wheel with a 6 speed shifter and clutch so addicting. You can't just pull a paddle and let the game blip the throttle for you. You have to know how to ease on the gas and to not just dump the clutch after shifting. It's ridiculously fun BECAUSE you have to think about it, at least for me anyways.

Off topic, but how does that work for the IS-F? It it's an 8AT.

[Cookie Monster]

Off topic, but how does that work for the IS-F? It it's an 8AT.

My friend (who owns the wheel and Xbox) says you can shift it normally until 6th gear and then use the paddles to shift up after that.

I'd just use the paddles for that car.

[hotrodalex]

My friend (who owns the wheel and Xbox) says you can shift it normally until 6th gear and then use the paddles to shift up after that.

I'd just use the paddles for that car.

I just wouldn't drive that car.

[sportyaccordy]

Manuals just seem like an unnecessary step, ESPECIALLY in spirited driving.

Say for example you're on a private closed course, and are a professional driver. You are doing about 70, and someone squeaks by you at about 85. To me, the more enjoyable choice would be to flick a paddle 2-3 times and be in gear in less than a second, rather than to analyze my speed, select the right gear mentally, clutch out, select the right gear physically+rev match, clutch in, and then be able to accelerate probably 2-3 seconds later, while running the risk of damaging your drivetrain... all to obtain the same result. I can't imagine anyone here hi-fiving themselves after completing a proper downshift; and I highly doubt anyone would come away from driving a 458 Italia and saying 'man that car wouldn't suck if it had a traditional manual'...

And it's even worse if you're braking into a turn...

ZF just developed an 8 speed auto that can use a wet multiplate clutch, torque converter and electric motor as the coupling device between it and the engine. It's not much less efficient than a DSG box, and of course is available in RWD or AWD. I'm curious to see how that works out. It can hold 1000N-m of torque too.

[MX793]

If you're cruising in 5th gear with an auto-manual and you come up to a light, do you have to downshift through each gear to get to neutral?  Or if you are slowing down for a light and then it turns green when you're doing about 20mph, do you have to shift down through 4th and 3rd to get to 2nd?  If so that would be mildly annoying.

No different than operating a motorcycle, which has a manual sequential gearbox.  Granted, the ability to skip straight from any gear to any other is one benefit of the traditional "H-pattern" gearbox.

My biggest gripe with SMG/DSG type boxes is the absence of the clutch pedal.  I like being able to modulate the clutch, particularly when operating in slick conditions (snow and ice).