458 Italia road test- this will make you a believer

[sportyaccordy]

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Ferrari-458-Italia-driven_723351.htm

[TBR]

I appreciate DSGs , but the Ferrari shift gate is a work of art so it's sad to see it go. I guess the 612 will be the last Ferrari with a traditional MT; who would have ever thought?

[sportyaccordy]

Hey man... I'm sure someone out there is lamenting the death of drum brakes. You can't stop progress... especially when it looks, sounds and goes so good. Plus with all that power, it's better to leave shifting up to the car anyway.

[SVT666]

The beginning of the end of the manual transmission.  This is a sad day.

As for the 458...I don't know.  The front end just doesn't look right.  Beyond that it's got a gorgeous shape.

[Submariner]

Wow...no manual?

Stupid. 

[sportyaccordy]

Wow...no manual?

Stupid. 

It's got damn near 600 HP. Better to let you focus on keeping it on the road than keeping it in its powerband. I think it's a good move on Ferarri's part.

Automanual trannys are not gimmicks. Their first sporting applications were in F1/rally cars.

[Onslaught]

Like most people I miss the manual transmission. Not that I'll ever own/drive this car anyway. I just fear this shit will trickle down to cars I do buy one day.

As for the car, gorgeous. I love every line and curve on it. And I have no doubt that it's an awesome car to drive. I can only dream.

[SVT666]

It's got damn near 600 HP. Better to let you focus on keeping it on the road than keeping it in its powerband. I think it's a good move on Ferarri's part.

Automanual trannys are not gimmicks. Their first sporting applications were in F1/rally cars.

There are plenty of cars with over 600 hp that have traditional manuals and they do just fine.

[MX793]

Like most people I miss the manual transmission. Not that I'll ever own/drive this car anyway. I just fear this shit will trickle down to cars I do buy one day.

As for the car, gorgeous. I love every line and curve on it. And I have no doubt that it's an awesome car to drive. I can only dream.

It already is starting to trickle down to cars that normal people can afford.  Look at the Lancer Ralliart or Golf R32.  Both are DSG-only.  How long until other more affordable performance cars go the same road?

[Submariner]

It's got damn near 600 HP. Better to let you focus on keeping it on the road than keeping it in its powerband. I think it's a good move on Ferarri's part.

Automanual trannys are not gimmicks. Their first sporting applications were in F1/rally cars.

I know that they have their merits...If I were racing a vehicle, I would probably choose an automated manual/DSG.  However, for fun, I don't think you can beat rowing through the gears yourself. 

[MX793]

I know that they have their merits...If I were racing a vehicle, I would probably choose an automated manual/DSG.  However, for fun, I don't think you can beat rowing through the gears yourself. 

Not to mention the ability to do a big, smoky brake-stand burnout.  Will any of these automated systems even allow for that or do the electronics step in and prevent it?  I know that the Lancer Ralliart suffers because the system won't let you launch the car as aggressively as you could with a regular manual.

[Onslaught]

I can change a clutch and do some minor work on a normal transmission. I wouldn't know WTF to do to ones of these things. I have no need for it.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

There are plenty of cars with over 600 hp that have traditional manuals and they do just fine.

+1 I would prefer a regular manual in most situations. On the track it would be a differant story.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I can change a clutch and do some minor work on a normal transmission. I wouldn't know WTF to do to ones of these things. I have no need for it.

Because you're going to serveice your own transmission on your new $250,000 Ferrari.

[Onslaught]

Because you're going to serveice your own transmission on your new $250,000 Ferrari.

No, I'm talking about this stuff becoming more common on the cars that I will buy one day.
If I had the money for a 458 then I'd never need to work on any car.

[Eye of the Tiger]

No, I'm talking about this stuff becoming more common on the cars that I will buy one day.
If I had the money for a 458 then I'd never need to work on any car.

I think DSG's are going to become the most popular transmission choice in the near future, so perhaps you should read up on how they work.

[Onslaught]

I think DSG's are going to become the most popular transmission choice in the near future, so perhaps you should read up on how they work.

Or I'll just get old cars and keep them up. My MX-5 probably has another 20 years in her without much work.
Or just hope that Mazda keeps making 6 speeds for a long time.

[sportyaccordy]

I know that they have their merits...If I were racing a vehicle, I would probably choose an automated manual/DSG.  However, for fun, I don't think you can beat rowing through the gears yourself. 

I dunno. For something like an S2000 that requires you to constantly be changing gears, even with its incredible gearbox eventually the stickshift gets in the way. That car would benefit immensely from a DSG box.

For a turbocharged car, DSG would enable the car to stay in boost. And for a car with a broad powerband, DSG would eliminate the pauses in power delivery and be more efficient than an auto box.

IDK; to me it seems like a win-win. The only reasons autos get a bad rap is because they have been geared terribly and usually don't have good performance programming. After having driven the G35x a while back, I'm a believer in a well sorted auto or DSG over a manual. You get to enjoy the rest of the car more.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Or I'll just get old cars and keep them up. My MX-5 probably has another 20 years in her without much work.
Or just hope that Mazda keeps making 6 speeds for a long time.

Or you can choose to remain ignorant, like the old guys who still run carburetors because they don't have a clue how good fuel injection is.

[565]

I personally wouldn't miss the manual transmission. Self shifting is overrated.

[Submariner]

I dunno. For something like an S2000 that requires you to constantly be changing gears, even with its incredible gearbox eventually the stickshift gets in the way. That car would benefit immensely from a DSG box.

For a turbocharged car, DSG would enable the car to stay in boost. And for a car with a broad powerband, DSG would eliminate the pauses in power delivery and be more efficient than an auto box.

IDK; to me it seems like a win-win. The only reasons autos get a bad rap is because they have been geared terribly and usually don't have good performance programming. After having driven the G35x a while back, I'm a believer in a well sorted auto or DSG over a manual. You get to enjoy the rest of the car more.

Don't get me wrong.  There are times I would prefer an automated box over a manual.  My DD is an automatic, and I thoroughly enjoy it.

That being said, I can't imagine my dads 911 being more rewarding with an autobox, or even their PDK transmission.  Rowing through the gears on that car is so satisfying.  You feel...connected; as if you feel every ounce of power the engine is squeezing out flow through your right hand, and your left foot.  It's a truly rewarding experience, and I surmise is the best possible way to drive that car. 

[sportyaccordy]

Don't get me wrong.  There are times I would prefer an automated box over a manual.  My DD is an automatic, and I thoroughly enjoy it.

That being said, I can't imagine my dads 911 being more rewarding with an autobox, or even their PDK transmission.  Rowing through the gears on that car is so satisfying.  You feel...connected; as if you feel every ounce of power the engine is squeezing out flow through your right hand, and your left foot.  It's a truly rewarding experience, and I surmise is the best possible way to drive that car. 

I would have to drive a manual & auto Porsche to confirm that. I think a PDK 997 C2S would be no less thrilling than the stickshift version, and it would probably be a little quicker in a mountain run with the extra ratio & non-existent shift times.

Plus while cars like the 911 have awesome clutch/shifter setups, there are a lot of manufacturers who haven't done the manual tranny justice. For example the stick in the first G35 was atrocious and rife with problems. 2nd gen too. Nissans in general have shitty shifters and clutches. A DSG (and higher quality interior) would have solidified the G35 as the 3 series beater.

[Onslaught]

Or you can choose to remain ignorant, like the old guys who still run carburetors because they don't have a clue how good fuel injection is.

If it makes them happy then they should run carburetors. And most of them probably know that fuel injection is good. They just like messing with carburetors because that's the way it was when they were young. And their easy to work on anyway.

I enjoy shifting gears. It's been a major deciding factor in the cars I've owned. It's got to be in just the right place with short throws and a short little shifter. I'm not a fan of the ones that are too smooth like the S2000, they feel like your moving the shifter in melted butter. I want one with a little bit of a mechanical feel to them.

If I was building a race car then the absolute best performing parts would be the logical choice. But for a car that I drive around for fun I personally want to change the gears the old way. It's not ignorance just a personal preference.

[Onslaught]

I dunno. For something like an S2000 that requires you to constantly be changing gears, even with its incredible gearbox eventually the stickshift gets in the way. That car would benefit immensely from a DSG box.

I can't agree with this or even see why someone would think that the stickshift gets in the way. I've got to throw the gears around all the time in both my cars and I'd have it no other way.
I'd have zero interest in a S2000 with the set up you'd like.

[Eye of the Tiger]

If it makes them happy then they should run carburetors. And most of them probably know that fuel injection is good. They just like messing with carburetors because that's the way it was when they were young. And their easy to work on anyway.

I enjoy shifting gears. It's been a major deciding factor in the cars I've owned. It's got to be in just the right place with short throws and a short little shifter. I'm not a fan of the ones that are too smooth like the S2000, they feel like your moving the shifter in melted butter. I want one with a little bit of a mechanical feel to them.

If I was building a race car then the absolute best performing parts would be the logical choice. But for a car that I drive around for fun I personally want to change the gears the old way. It's not ignorance just a personal preference.

Cut the bullshit. This is ignorance:

I can change a clutch and do some minor work on a normal transmission. I wouldn't know WTF to do to ones of these things. I have no need for it.

And you are choosing it.

[Onslaught]

Cut the bullshit. This is ignorance:

And you are choosing it.

What's you're problem kid? You seem to have an attitude as of late with short little know it all posts with people.

You don't like the fact that some people actually like to shift gears then you can stick it.

[Eye of the Tiger]

What's you're problem kid? You seem to have an attitude as of late with short little know it all posts with people.

You don't like the fact that some people actually like to shift gears then you can stick it.

Seems like you're the one with the problem, kid.

[SVT666]

I dunno. For something like an S2000 that requires you to constantly be changing gears, even with its incredible gearbox eventually the stickshift gets in the way. That car would benefit immensely from a DSG box.

For a turbocharged car, DSG would enable the car to stay in boost. And for a car with a broad powerband, DSG would eliminate the pauses in power delivery and be more efficient than an auto box.

IDK; to me it seems like a win-win. The only reasons autos get a bad rap is because they have been geared terribly and usually don't have good performance programming. After having driven the G35x a while back, I'm a believer in a well sorted auto or DSG over a manual. You get to enjoy the rest of the car more.

Read the latest Road & Track.  They actually did a comparison test between the same cars with both transmissions.  They're conclusion was that for the most fun, manual transmissions are the way to go because they are the most rewarding when you master them, and DSG for the track.  No human can shift as fast as a DSG and that makes it the fastest way around a track, but it doesn't make it the most fun.

[Tave]

I don't see how it would be any easier to modulate the throttle in a manumatic.

[SVT666]

If it makes them happy then they should run carburetors. And most of them probably know that fuel injection is good. They just like messing with carburetors because that's the way it was when they were young. And their easy to work on anyway.

I enjoy shifting gears. It's been a major deciding factor in the cars I've owned. It's got to be in just the right place with short throws and a short little shifter. I'm not a fan of the ones that are too smooth like the S2000, they feel like your moving the shifter in melted butter. I want one with a little bit of a mechanical feel to them.

If I was building a race car then the absolute best performing parts would be the logical choice. But for a car that I drive around for fun I personally want to change the gears the old way. It's not ignorance just a personal preference.