Police go for hybrid Lexus

[Catman]

I think the Magnum makes more sense than either.

[ciciusss]

Catman,

The Crown Vic police package has tight leg room in the rear seat. Are you saying that the Charger will have less? I do agree that many will wait for some agencies to jump. If a large department like the NCHP or CHP begin purchasing Chargers, then I think you will see a lot of departments come on board. It certainly is quicker and sits on a much newer platform than the Crown Vic.

It's definately a newer, more modern platform.  Comparing them side by side the Chargers rear seat was tighter, I was a little disappointed.  The roof line will suck when you get a dink that won't go in willingly.  Tazer use should increase.   I also though that the 3.5L would be a pretty good performer but than I noticed the Charger weighed only 50 lbs less than the CVPI and puts out less torque so I don't know.  The Hemi will be expensive from what I hear.  The best engine for a police car would be a turbo diesel, it would last a long time and be fuel efficient.

Catman,

One of my colleagues actually had a price quote for the Hemi equipped Charger Police Package a couple of months ago. I will try to find out what that price was. I agree that the 250 hp Charger offers no acceleration advantage over the Crown Vic. The Charger does come equipped with Electronic Stability Control. Part of my reasoning for some departments going to the Charger will probably be due to the litigation some departments have had against Ford. There certainly is no love lost there.

[ciciusss]

I think the Magnum makes more sense than either.

Yeah, I think you are right from a practical point of view.

[ciciusss]

Catman,

If you are correct about the Charger's roofline, taser use as well as pepper spray will be on the increase. No doubt there also will be more visits to the hospital with a roofline tatoo planted across an unwilling arrestee's forehead.

[Catman]

Yes, I'd be interested to see how competitive their pricing is.  Our dealer had no pricing available other than the $27,000 sticker on the 3.5L civilian model it had.  I believe we pay around $23K, maybe a little more now, for our CV's.

[Raza]

There's a big reason we prefer large cars other than the obvious.  Consider that the avg gunbelt adds anywhere from 3-5 inches in hip width, space is at a premium, not to mention all the other equipment.  Any collision in a small car like Raza suggests is a recipe for serious injury or death.  Having one officer out of work on permanent disability is very expensive, more expensive than the extra cost of a safer car.  

Some obvious reasons for buying cars like the CVPI is that they are far more durable than a FWD econocar.  Constant repairs and maintenance can be very costly.  Additionally, there is no way that an Aveo can support the electronics we carry, it would puke.  The trunk area alone would not be sufficient to house the radio, modem and power supplies.  And, that's before you throw in the rifle and all the other equipment.  In the front, the passenger seat would have to be removed to make room for a console and computer mount.  For larger departments this would eliminate the possibility of a two man car.  

CVPI are already pretty cheap without the electronics, cages, lightbars, etc.  however, most of those items are recycled to newer cars.  We have Motorola radios that have been around before I started.  Lightbars usually last 6+ years.  Cages are good until the configuration changes and often that can be addressed with different brackets.  

Another obvious reason we like larger cars is because it is impossible to transport prisoners in a small car if a cage is in place.  The CVPI is barely acceptable as a transport.  A smaller car would require the need for a van and a man to drive it.

Lets face it, the CVPI is the ideal patrol car right now.  It retails in the low twenties all wired up and ready to go, maintence and reliability are good and the parts are reasonably cheap.

Anyone suggesting an Aveo would be acceptable is joking or is totally ignorant.  BTW, I can guarantee huge union greivances if someone put us in an Aveo.

If it's so ideal, why are so many PDs switching to Impalas and even Intrepids?  My local PD doesn't have any cars but two, an unmarked gold Grand Marquis and an unmarked green Impala, everything else is Yukon or Tahoe.  I've seen in my surrounding area not only Impalas and Intrepids, but also Explorers, Expeditions, a Cherokee and a new one that I only caught for glimpse, an unmarked blue SUV, possible a Trailblazer.  And Trailblazers are over 30 thousand dollars, more than the average cost of a new car transaction in America.  I think there's something wrong with that.

And yes, I'm only half serious about a car like the Aveo.  It's an extreme example, of course, but the point I'm trying to get across is that the cars that the police force should use should as cheap as possible while still remaining functional.  You obviously know more about what is absolutely necessary for the police than I do, but if they can make things more efficient, why not?  As I've said, most of my PDs now use SUVs, so why not something like a Kia Sportage?  They're only like 16 grand.  I mean, the Crown Victoria starts at 25K on the Ford website, and I don't know what kind of discount you guys get, but it can't be more than 9 thousand dollars.  

What about cars like the Camry?  That's under 20 grand, and the four cylinder's probably as fast and more gasoline efficient than the CV's V8.  Sure, it's a bit smaller on the inside, but it's a nip and a tuck here and there, and then there are some areas where the Camry has more room.  Or the Mitsu Galant or Outlander?  Both cars are cheaper than CVs.

So when I say the Chevy Aveo, I don't mean the Chevy Aveo (though if I were in charge, you'd be driving the cheapest thing on the market, with some larger or faster vehicles for transport or pursuit, respectively).  I mean something cheaper.

[ifcar]

TrailBlazers start at about $20,000, with discounting, they're probably paying $25K for a police-package model, maybe less.  

[Raza]

TrailBlazers start at about $20,000, with discounting, they're probably paying $25K for a police-package model, maybe less.

There's 13 thousand dollars worth of rebates on the Trailblazer?

[ifcar]

TrailBlazers start at about $20,000, with discounting, they're probably paying $25K for a police-package model, maybe less.

There's 13 thousand dollars worth of rebates on the Trailblazer?

A TrailBlazer LS 2WD has a $27,000 sticker.  

[Raza]

TrailBlazers start at about $20,000, with discounting, they're probably paying $25K for a police-package model, maybe less.

There's 13 thousand dollars worth of rebates on the Trailblazer?

A TrailBlazer LS 2WD has a $27,000 sticker.

Not according to Chevrolet.com. It says the starting price is $33,600.  You better tell them.

[ifcar]

TrailBlazers start at about $20,000, with discounting, they're probably paying $25K for a police-package model, maybe less.

There's 13 thousand dollars worth of rebates on the Trailblazer?

A TrailBlazer LS 2WD has a $27,000 sticker.

Not according to Chevrolet.com. It says the starting price is $33,600.  You better tell them.

http://www.chevrolet.com/trailblazer/

The LS 2WD starts at $27,410. You're quoting the TrailBlazer SS price.  

[Raza]

TrailBlazers start at about $20,000, with discounting, they're probably paying $25K for a police-package model, maybe less.

There's 13 thousand dollars worth of rebates on the Trailblazer?

A TrailBlazer LS 2WD has a $27,000 sticker.

Not according to Chevrolet.com. It says the starting price is $33,600.  You better tell them.

http://www.chevrolet.com/trailblazer/

The LS 2WD starts at $27,410. You're quoting the TrailBlazer SS price.

Ah, you're right.  That's a misleading link then, isn't it?  All it says is  "Trailblazer...starts at $33,600".  Doesn't even mention that it's the SS model.  I concede.

[Catman]

I think it would be a challenge to equip any appropriate vehicle for police use and come in in the low twenties like the CVPI does.  SUV's have there place for police work due to their 4WD but they should not replace a cruiser for patrol.  Only Chevrolet rates an SUV (Tahoe) for pursuit use and they're more expensive than a CVPI.  Impalas and Intrepids are initially cheaper but have proven to cost significantly more to maintain and repair due to their FWD and don't forget that down time count for something also.  Raza, the reason the CVPI is so popular is because it meets the requirements and is priced very reasonably.  Financially, the CVPI cannot be beat right now.

[ifcar]

TrailBlazers start at about $20,000, with discounting, they're probably paying $25K for a police-package model, maybe less.

There's 13 thousand dollars worth of rebates on the Trailblazer?

A TrailBlazer LS 2WD has a $27,000 sticker.

Not according to Chevrolet.com. It says the starting price is $33,600.  You better tell them.

http://www.chevrolet.com/trailblazer/

The LS 2WD starts at $27,410. You're quoting the TrailBlazer SS price.

Ah, you're right.  That's a misleading link then, isn't it?  All it says is  "Trailblazer...starts at $33,600".  Doesn't even mention that it's the SS model.  I concede.

That is rather odd. Perhaps they previously had a separate entry for the SS model and combined the two into one, leaving the SS picture and price. Can't think of any other reason for that.

[TBR]

Raza, TMV of a base CV is $20,275 while that of a base Camry (with an auto) is $17125. Obviously that is a significant difference, but an I4 Camry wouldn't do very well 1000+ pounds worth of police officers and equipment. Also, keep in mind that a Ford dealership would more likely be willing to make a deal than a Toyota dealership would be.

[Catman]

Raza, TMV of a base CV is $20,275 while that of a base Camry (with an auto) is $17125. Obviously that is a significant difference, but an I4 Camry wouldn't do very well 1000+ pounds worth of police officers and equipment. Also, keep in mind that a Ford dealership would more likely be willing to make a deal than a Toyota dealership would be.

One accident and the Camry would be more expensive.  That's considering the base price would be the police price.  I suspect it would be in the Fords price range with reasonable police mods.

[Catman]

Check out this movie! B)

Charger and Magnum

[Raza]

Raza, TMV of a base CV is $20,275 while that of a base Camry (with an auto) is $17125. Obviously that is a significant difference, but an I4 Camry wouldn't do very well 1000+ pounds worth of police officers and equipment. Also, keep in mind that a Ford dealership would more likely be willing to make a deal than a Toyota dealership would be.

One accident and the Camry would be more expensive.  That's considering the base price would be the police price.  I suspect it would be in the Fords price range with reasonable police mods.

Do you guys get into a lot of accidents?

[Catman]

Raza, TMV of a base CV is $20,275 while that of a base Camry (with an auto) is $17125. Obviously that is a significant difference, but an I4 Camry wouldn't do very well 1000+ pounds worth of police officers and equipment. Also, keep in mind that a Ford dealership would more likely be willing to make a deal than a Toyota dealership would be.

One accident and the Camry would be more expensive.  That's considering the base price would be the police price.  I suspect it would be in the Fords price range with reasonable police mods.

Do you guys get into a lot of accidents?

I'd say no more than the average department.  When you have anywhere from 5-12 cars running 24/7 you usually see a couple good wrecks a year.  Most are people hitting us but on occasion you get the winter crash or the collisions during a pursuit.  

[ciciusss]

Check out this movie! B)

Charger and Magnum

Catman good fine. Dodge is aggressively going after this market.

[giant_mtb]

Check out this movie! B)

Charger and Magnum

That lady's voice is absolutely unbearable.

[Whistler]

How do you expect the police to be able to catch anyone in an Aveo? Virtually everything else on the road is bigger and faster.

I would be okay with some other vehicles that are faster, pursuit vehicles (like Camaros, Mustangs, or even some Crown Vics), but as a publicly funded institution they should be spending as little tax dollars as possible to remain functional.  I'm not asking them to turn off the lights during the day, just spending 22-25K on a car when many, many people can't afford that seems wrong to me.  Give them higher salaries, not Crown Victorias.

You're an idiot. Not only is the idea of the Aveo outrageous to begin with, but you'd lose the money you save in 1 year of repairs after police duty. Not to mention you'd still need other cars anyway, to transport prisoners, for pursuit, etc etc.

I dunno if you're serious or not but thats just overall a stupid idea. Do you think police agencies don't WANT to run cheaper cars? Police departments are the experts when it comes to stretching out their budget. They've experimented with all kinds of different cars. I've even seen patrol K-cars and Citations from the 1980s... the problem is that every time they try, they lose so much functionality and spend so much more in repairs that the CVPI still comes out as cheapest.

[Whistler]

Can an average person buy a CVPI?

I don't think so per se.  However, last I saw they had a sport model which was essentially an Interceptor package.  In MA, anyone running blue or red lights must have a permit issued by the Chief of Police.  The fine is over $200 for a violation along with any impersonation charge that may apply.

I've seen brand new CVPIs and Impala 9c1s for sale at dealers, but its normally because of a supply screw up (ie the police ordered one to many) so they just sell it off as a "new" car through the used car lot.

[Whistler]

I think the Magnum makes more sense than either.

I haven't been inside a Magnum, but I've always wondered if it would be possible to move the backseat farther toward the back (ie Malibu Maxx) for the police package, to give it more room for the cage and prisoner.

[Whistler]

Raza, TMV of a base CV is $20,275 while that of a base Camry (with an auto) is $17125. Obviously that is a significant difference, but an I4 Camry wouldn't do very well 1000+ pounds worth of police officers and equipment. Also, keep in mind that a Ford dealership would more likely be willing to make a deal than a Toyota dealership would be.

One accident and the Camry would be more expensive.  That's considering the base price would be the police price.  I suspect it would be in the Fords price range with reasonable police mods.

Do you guys get into a lot of accidents?

I'd say no more than the average department.  When you have anywhere from 5-12 cars running 24/7 you usually see a couple good wrecks a year.  Most are people hitting us but on occasion you get the winter crash or the collisions during a pursuit.

Or a guardrail jumps in front of you  :P .

[giant_mtb]

I think the Magnum makes more sense than either.

I haven't been inside a Magnum, but I've always wondered if it would be possible to move the backseat farther toward the back (ie Malibu Maxx) for the police package, to give it more room for the cage and prisoner.

Prisoners don't deserve rear leg room.  :angry:    

[BMWDave]

I think the Magnum makes more sense than either.

I haven't been inside a Magnum, but I've always wondered if it would be possible to move the backseat farther toward the back (ie Malibu Maxx) for the police package, to give it more room for the cage and prisoner.

Prisoners don't deserve rear leg room.  :angry:  

Yup, you dont have to go out of your way to make sure a offenders ride to prison is a pleasant one.

[Catman]

I think the Magnum makes more sense than either.

I haven't been inside a Magnum, but I've always wondered if it would be possible to move the backseat farther toward the back (ie Malibu Maxx) for the police package, to give it more room for the cage and prisoner.

Prisoners don't deserve rear leg room.  :angry:  

Well, it's always nice when you don't have to punch the shit out of someone to get them in the back seat.  

[giant_mtb]

I think the Magnum makes more sense than either.

I haven't been inside a Magnum, but I've always wondered if it would be possible to move the backseat farther toward the back (ie Malibu Maxx) for the police package, to give it more room for the cage and prisoner.

Prisoners don't deserve rear leg room.  :angry:  

Well, it's always nice when you don't have to punch the shit out of someone to get them in the back seat.

lol I guess...

[Catman]

How do you expect the police to be able to catch anyone in an Aveo? Virtually everything else on the road is bigger and faster.

I would be okay with some other vehicles that are faster, pursuit vehicles (like Camaros, Mustangs, or even some Crown Vics), but as a publicly funded institution they should be spending as little tax dollars as possible to remain functional.  I'm not asking them to turn off the lights during the day, just spending 22-25K on a car when many, many people can't afford that seems wrong to me.  Give them higher salaries, not Crown Victorias.

You're an idiot. Not only is the idea of the Aveo outrageous to begin with, but you'd lose the money you save in 1 year of repairs after police duty. Not to mention you'd still need other cars anyway, to transport prisoners, for pursuit, etc etc.

I dunno if you're serious or not but thats just overall a stupid idea. Do you think police agencies don't WANT to run cheaper cars? Police departments are the experts when it comes to stretching out their budget. They've experimented with all kinds of different cars. I've even seen patrol K-cars and Citations from the 1980s... the problem is that every time they try, they lose so much functionality and spend so much more in repairs that the CVPI still comes out as cheapest.

Good post and you made some points that I was trying to convey.  Initial cost tells little about the cost incurred over the two year life cycle.  If we could be a little leaner and not give up functionality we would.