Do cars really need to be good to sell?

[280Z Turbo]

Sometimes I wonder...

Most people don't know much about cars, if they even like them. Do people even understand what makes a Mazda 3 better than a Dodge Caliber?

We all know that the current Ford Focus is just an Americanized version of the outdated 2000 model. People still buy them because they have no idea. Is it even worth it to bring over the new one? If they just kept facelifting the C170 chassis, would the average Joe notice?

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The answer is NO! The average Joe could care less if the current Focus is outdated and way worse than the one Ford sells across the pond. The average buyer would never buy a G8 GT over a V6 Camry. Most new car buyers don't have a clue if their car is front or rear wheel drive. For example a guy told me this past weekend that my work van (2008 Grand Caravan) was rear wheel drive.  Another friend told me my buddys V6 Camaro wasn't as fast as mine because the V6 versions were front wheel drive.  I won't go into some of the things I've heard clueless females say.  So in the end a car does not have to be good to sell. 

[Payman]

Sad but true. My boss owns a Dodge Nitro, and I told him at least it looks better than the Jeep Liberty, which is essentially the same vehicle. He had no idea the two were related, and is convinced that his Nitro is an awesome vehicle... the best in its class.

[BimmerM3]

Yes and no. Sure, some people will always buy shitty cars, but regardless of whether or not a person is into cars, spending $20k is no small matter, so a lot of people will do research, read reviews, compare specs, and ask people like us who are into cars.

I also think that it's more important for a new model of car to be good than a updated version of an old car. Unless something goes seriously wrong, Accords will always sell just because they're Accords. It's a recognizable name and most people have had positive experiences with Accords. For something like the Mazda3 when it was first released in the early 2000s, even though we all knew that it was essentially the new Protege, the rest of the world didn't know that, so it had to be good.

[ifcar]

Good in the auto enthusiast sense? No, not at all. But there are some basic characteristics that win people to otherwise "bad" cars.

The Caliber isn't the best example though. It's not as if people are flocking to buy it.

[AutobahnSHO]

The Caliber isn't the best example though. It's not as if people are flocking to buy it.

Part of that is "image"- of which the Caliber has Zero. (although the 300 has plenty of cred with a certain group..)

Many people buy X just because they hate Y and would never consider Z.

[3.0L V6]

The Cavalier was a perfect example of this.

By every standard it had been surpassed in the small car market - but it had a few things going for it:

It was cheap and had a warranty
It was moderately reliable and people knew what it was

[Jon?]

Of my inlaws and friends, I am the only one I know of who actually researches and then cross-shops different vehicles before buying something.  My research typically begins three to six months in advance of a purchase, narrowing it down to a few contenders, then pouring over Autotrader and Cars.com looking for deals.

By contrast, my inlaws bought a brand new Accord without having ever driven any other vehicle.  They walked into the dealership, bought it, then asked me if they got a good deal.  Another friend picked up a small Kia SUV and now bemoans its lack of space and noisy ride.

I cannot fathom spending thousands and in many cases tens of thousand of dollars on something you'll spend a good part of your day using without exhaustively researching it, but I'd have to agree that most people don't know and don't care. 

[Madman]

Another point to consider is the Lemming Effect.  A lot of people who either don't know (or don't care) about cars will buy a certain car because somebody they know has one.  I've heard lots of people (mostly women, in this case) who choose a car based on this.  I've even heard a couple of women say they wanted a Cavalier because somebody they knew had one and it was a "good" car.  Of course, by "good", what they really mean is that it hadn't caught fire, dropped it's engine onto the road or blown itself up in a spectacular explosion.  When expectations are this low, how can any car not be good?

What about performance?  Don't care.

Handling?  Err....what's that?

Build quality?  Well, it hasn't broken down.  No, that's not what I asked.  I mean the overall fit and finish and the quality of materials used.

Oh, I don't know.  Stop asking me all these stupid questions!


And these you have, in a nutshell, why there are so many terrible cars blighting our roads.  Of course, that situation would improve dramatically if we could ban women from buying cars.


Madman of the People

[ifcar]

For things that people don't actually care about, what you consider a "bad" car is equal to the best.

[Onslaught]

Sometimes I wonder...

Most people don't know much about cars, if they even like them. Do people even understand what makes a Mazda 3 better than a Dodge Caliber?

We all know that the current Ford Focus is just an Americanized version of the outdated 2000 model. People still buy them because they have no idea. Is it even worth it to bring over the new one? If they just kept facelifting the C170 chassis, would the average Joe notice?

People know nothing about cars. When looking for a new car I told people I was looking for something RWD. All my friends both guys and girls kept naming FWD cars. I had to explain to them what the difference was because they didn't know. Then I had tell them about stuff like torque steer. They never could understand any of it and most thought the idea of RWD was "dumb."

I really think that most girls go on looks and color.

[Byteme]

I really think that most girls go on looks and color.

I guess I found a rare one then.  My wife focuses on ergonomics, transmission (manual only), HP, looks and fun to drive.

[Raza]

Sad but true. My boss owns a Dodge Nitro, and I told him at least it looks better than the Jeep Liberty, which is essentially the same vehicle. He had no idea the two were related, and is convinced that his Nitro is an awesome vehicle... the best in its class.

I believe that's incorrect.  The Nitro and Patriot are twins, to my knowledge.

And they both look better than the Nitro.

[Onslaught]

I guess I found a rare one then.  My wife focuses on ergonomics, transmission (manual only), HP, looks and fun to drive.

Well I'm not saying all. My mom has been driving 4WD SUV's for 30+ years with towing packages for the boat.

But most modern girls I've helped go on a lot and say "I love the blue one!" So I take them over to the line of Civic two doors because that's what the blue one was.
Girl-"NO, I love the blue one not these."
Me- "Well these are the same cars just in other colors. You need to see all the options and prices."
Girl-"They don't look the same as the blue car."
Me- " It's just paint, they are the same cars."
Girl - "I don't like them! I like the blue one."
Me thinking in my head "dumb bitch"

[Northlands]

I get the impression that many people don't know near enough about the car they purchase. I think salespeople have a much bigger effect on one's perception of the vehicle they purchased.

There are scores of people I run into that don't take any kind of independent reviews of vehicles they plan on purchasing.

[Onslaught]

I get the impression that many people don't know near enough about the car they purchase. I think salespeople have a much bigger effect on one's perception of the vehicle they purchased.

There are scores of people I run into that don't take any kind of independent reviews of vehicles they plan on purchasing.

God I hope not! One sales person said my car had a V6 in it.

[Jon?]

Six rotors?

[93JC]

Cars need to be perceptually good at something. Whether they're actually good or not doesn't really matter, although most perceptions have at least a small basis in reality.

It took me two years and many, many test drives to finally settle on a Mazda 3. In my experience my car-buying methods were particularly unusual. Most people settle on a handful of cars they want for one reason or another, and then they pick one based on features, price, and often relatively inconsequential things like paint colour.

[Onslaught]

I know a lot of people who just got a Hyundai for the warranty. Turns out the car was good too but they never even looked at other cars. When I asked them why they got the car and why it over others the first and only thing out of their mouths was "warranty."

[Northlands]

God I hope not! One sales person said my car had a V6 in it.

We're a more select group of individuals than we believe. Most people don't know what's under their hoods.

[280Z Turbo]

Six rotors?

3 V's per rotor, two rotors. It makes perfect sense.

[Onslaught]

We're a more select group of individuals than we believe. Most people don't know what's under their hoods.

I know. I can't tell you how many people have asked what kind of car my Miata was. I'm thinking "Really, you don't know what a Miata is?"
Like them or hate them I'd think it be one of the more recognizable cars of the last 20 years. And I've had many men argue with me that
the MX-5 is FWD too.

[Payman]

I believe that's incorrect.  The Nitro and Patriot are twins, to my knowledge.

And they both look better than the Nitro.

El wrongo! Compass=Patriot, Nitro=Liberty.

[93JC]

I know a lot of people who just got a Hyundai for the warranty. Turns out the car was good too but they never even looked at other cars. When I asked them why they got the car and why it over others the first and only thing out of their mouths was "warranty."

Most cars seem to be sold like that. I was tempted to join a Mazda 3 forum when I bought my car, but after perusing a half-dozen of them they all seem to be filled with a variety of idiots. Most of them are the boy-racer types who blabber endlessly about getting a body kit, replacing the exhaust, etc., and the rest seem to be the sensible Ma 'n' Pa fogey types who bought the 3 because it's practical and has "Japanese quality and reliability", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

The only reason anyone buys a Hyundai is the warranty and promise of decent fuel economy and reliability. Same with Toyota and Honda, minus the warranty. People buy 'domestic' because they're less expensive, people buy 'European' ('German') because they're in vogue, etc.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only rational, sane person left on the planet.

[280Z Turbo]

Most cars seem to be sold like that. I was tempted to join a Mazda 3 forum when I bought my car, but after perusing a half-dozen of them they all seem to be filled with a variety of idiots. Most of them are the boy-racer types who blabber endlessly about getting a body kit, replacing the exhaust, etc., and the rest seem to be the sensible Ma 'n' Pa fogey types who bought the 3 because it's practical and has "Japanese quality and reliability", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

The only reason anyone buys a Hyundai is the warranty and promise of decent fuel economy and reliability. Same with Toyota and Honda, minus the warranty. People buy 'domestic' because they're less expensive, people buy 'European' ('German') because they're in vogue, etc.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only rational, sane person left on the planet.

There's still a lot of people in the U.S. who buy "domestic" because of patriotism.

[Byteme]

Most cars seem to be sold like that. I was tempted to join a Mazda 3 forum when I bought my car, but after perusing a half-dozen of them they all seem to

What year is your 3?

[93JC]

2010, brand spankin' new.

[Onslaught]

There's still a lot of people in the U.S. who buy "domestic" because of patriotism.

Some but not as many as 20-30 years ago. When I was a kid that was a big thing around here. Don't see as much of it anymore.

[Jon?]

Some but not as many as 20-30 years ago. When I was a kid that was a big thing around here. Don't see as much of it anymore.

I'll admit that was partly the reason for my latest purchase.  Or rather, it was a reason I decided to actually look at domestic models whereas before I'd never given them a glance.

[Onslaught]

Well people get into arguments about what's really an import or domestic these days. Not that I want to bring that into this.