Do cars really need to be good to sell?

[SVT666]

Or those that are advertised at 4 for $100.  And then you have those people that spend additional money on the same tires as OEM which a lot of times, are a waste of money and no better than other options available out there.  This is true of the 4 of 5 cars I've owned so far.  The OEM tires are more expensive and crap compared to what I've replaced them with. 

My SVT Focus came with Continental ContiSportContact3 and I couldn't wait to destroy them so I could get rid of them.  Don't get me wrong, they are good tires, but there are definitely better tires out there for less.

[Byteme]

No, a but a good set of touring tires would be perfectly suited for it.  Why would you buy a set of tires for $200 from Wal-Mart when they will be shit in all conditions?

I believe we are in agreement. 

[Madman]

He bought some shitty off name brand for it because they were cheap and had a "100,000 mile wear rating".

100,000 miles!?!  The rubber compound in those things must be harder than concrete!!!


Madman of the People

[Vinsanity]

well, my dad went through two different sets of 85,000 mile tires which he found to ride pretty smoothly, so you never know...

[SVT_Power]

??

[the Teuton]

*cough* X3 *cough*

[The Pirate]

I don't know, even a "bad" BMW is still loads better than something like a Caliber or Sebring.

[AutobahnSHO]

I don't know, even a "bad" BMW is still loads better than something like a Caliber or Sebring.

Only it costs way too much. It better be somewhat better.
You could get 2 crappy crapboxes for the price of a German crapbox, couldn't you?

[2o6]

For the right price, anything looks good.



If a Dodge dealer offered you nice amount on your trade in as well as a discount on a Caliber I could see why someone would buy one. Especially if other dealers with similar cars treated them badly.

[93JC]

How do you like it so far?  Just curious since we own a 06 model.

I like it a lot. Anything in particular you want to know about the 2010 vs. 2006?

[Byteme]

I like it a lot. Anything in particular you want to know about the 2010 vs. 2006?

No, I didn't know if you had a new one or an older model.  If you had a 2005 or 6 I was going to share the method of activating the trip-mileage computer display if your model didn't have it.  Up to and including the 2006 model year that display (instant MPG, Average MPG, miles to empty and average speed) could be activated through a sequence of pushing buttons even if that particular model didn't have that option listed.   All the 3s of those years had the software installed and all one needed to do was activate it.  Sadly that ability was not available on the 6 and Mazda changed the software on the 3 in 2007 so prevent that as well.

[93JC]

The trip computer is integrated with the satnav system in the new one.

[ChrisV]

Do cars really need to be good to sell?

Depends on the definition of good. For some people, apparently, Good means absolute perfection. For others, good means does the job they ask it to do. Some people have a sense of entitlement that makes them think they deserve only the best in life, regardless of the price range. Some people can feel the pea under 10 mattresses. Others want a car that costs what they can afford, gets them where they want to go, and carries what they want to carry. And, some of them want it to look good to them (obviously not Aztek buyers, right).

Those who decry people who buy cars based on looks had better not be dismissing cars because of looks... 

I do admit that not doing a bit of research into whether they will be happy with a car in the long term (if they intend on keeping it a long time going into it) is a problem. But Im so far out o0f that loop, too. I rarely do "research" into any car I might buy, other than deciding on a car I like then looking to find out about parts sources etc. But that's because I don't go "I have $X and I need a car, what is there available?" I also never go " I need a daily driver, a toy, a work vehicle. What are the best cars in those categories?" I know a number of people decide on categories of cars, then look to fill those categories with what's "best" like they would with stereo gear or a computer build. I don't want to do that, and since I'm immersed in cars all the time, I really can't do that, as, like a number of people here, I'm never not knowledgeable about what cars are available and what they are like as cars.

But as for "good" cars, a prime example is the Ranger. It was perfectly serviceable in it's role: a small truck that was economical to build, buy, own, and fairly reliable and relatively stylish. That's all that category really needs, and it still serves that role well for individual buyers and companies. Little tweaks to the basic formula through the ears is fine, but there's really no reason to change for the sake of change when it works so well. it's "good." it's not perfect, nor is it the "best." But maybe that isn't necessary in order to be a viable choice. if it's perfectly serviceable and acceptable to buy and use a used one, then a new one with no wear on it is just as viable. Same for a lot of cars.

[SVT666]

Those who decry people who buy cars based on looks had better not be dismissing cars because of looks... 

Being ugly is a hallmark of so many cars.  I would have thought that YOU would appreciate that.

[Rupert]

Being ugly is a hallmark of so many cars.  I would have thought that YOU would appreciate that.

There's nothing in his statement that suggests that he doesn't.

[SVT666]

There's nothing in his statement that suggests that he doesn't.

In his eyes there is no such thing as an ugly car.  I'm just surprised by his comment about the Aztek.

[Rupert]

In his eyes there is no such thing as an ugly car.  I'm just surprised by his comment about the Aztek.

That's not the impression I get. It seems to me that the Great ChrisV can appreciate any car, or at least can see why someone might appreciate any car. I mean, yeah, the Aztek is fuckin' ugly, but it is/was a useful, fairly practical vehicle. I think he's been pretty consistent along that line.

[ifcar]

For the right price, anything looks good.



If a Dodge dealer offered you nice amount on your trade in as well as a discount on a Caliber I could see why someone would buy one. Especially if other dealers with similar cars treated them badly.

I'd agree with the dealer point as well. For many people, cars are seen as essentially interchangeable -- it's like buying your bananas at Safeway vs. [can't think of another national chain that everyone here would be familiar with]. And in that case, it takes a truly bad and very obvious problem to discourage a customer, and while Chrysler seems more than willing to oblige, it obviously hasn't chased off everyone.


I'd further like to point out that I'm somewhat planning to buy a car this fall, and I have yet to cross a car off my list for being a "bad car" if it's cheap enough and under warranty -- as the warranty is effectively a guarantee of how much time I have before I would need to start weighing fix it vs. junk it. Not that I wouldn't prefer a good one to a bad one, but I'm treating my car-shopping more like most people: purely a numbers game.

[SVT666]

I'd agree with the dealer point as well. For many people, cars are seen as essentially interchangeable -- it's like buying your bananas at Safeway vs. [can't think of another national chain that everyone here would be familiar with]. And in that case, it takes a truly bad and very obvious problem to discourage a customer, and while Chrysler seems more than willing to oblige, it obviously hasn't chased off everyone.


I'd further like to point out that I'm somewhat planning to buy a car this fall, and I have yet to cross a car off my list for being a "bad car" if it's cheap enough and under warranty -- as the warranty is effectively a guarantee of how much time I have before I would need to start weighing fix it vs. junk it. Not that I wouldn't prefer a good one to a bad one, but I'm treating my car-shopping more like most people: purely a numbers game.

What's wrong with your Focus?

[ifcar]

What's wrong with your Focus?

Nothing major yet, mostly just the things that were missing or broken when I got it -- CD player, HVAC (only works on the highest fan setting), back hatch release. And the engine/transmission remain under an aftermarket warranty for a few more months yet.

But I don't know how long I can really count on a $3,000 used car to start for me when I need it to. I can easily afford an upgrade, and I figure the car hasn't lost much value since I got it as long as it's still running when I sell.

[3.0L V6]

Nothing major yet, mostly just the things that were missing or broken when I got it -- CD player, HVAC (only works on the highest fan setting), back hatch release. And the engine/transmission remain under an aftermarket warranty for a few more months yet.

But I don't know how long I can really count on a $3,000 used car to start for me when I need it to. I can easily afford an upgrade, and I figure the car hasn't lost much value since I got it as long as it's still running when I sell.

If it's made it this far, why not drive it into the ground? Provided you do the timing belt changes on the engine, it will go hundreds of thousands of miles on regular maintenance and if yours is a 5-speed, the only other real failure point will be the clutch, which probably would be less than $1000 to replace at a shop. If it's an automatic, I see your concern.

[MX793]

Sad but true. My boss owns a Dodge Nitro, and I told him at least it looks better than the Jeep Liberty, which is essentially the same vehicle. He had no idea the two were related, and is convinced that his Nitro is an awesome vehicle... the best in its class.

Do you honestly think somebody who plunked down tens of thousands of dollars on a new vehicle is going to say anything other than "this vehicle is best in its class"?  Nobody will admit that they knowingly blew a large chunk of money on an inferior product (not saying that the Nitro is a bad vehicle, I honestly don't know much about it or how it compares to others in its class).

[MX793]

No, I didn't know if you had a new one or an older model.  If you had a 2005 or 6 I was going to share the method of activating the trip-mileage computer display if your model didn't have it.  Up to and including the 2006 model year that display (instant MPG, Average MPG, miles to empty and average speed) could be activated through a sequence of pushing buttons even if that particular model didn't have that option listed.   All the 3s of those years had the software installed and all one needed to do was activate it.  Sadly that ability was not available on the 6 and Mazda changed the software on the 3 in 2007 so prevent that as well.

Do the '04s have that feature, or was it only '05 and '06?

EDIT:  Nevermind.  Did some research and it apparently only works on '06 and '07 models.

[mzziaz]

Mustang owners aren't any better. They're either airhead women who bought one because they look interesting to them in some way, the same kind of boy-racer types who want to modify it, old farts who bought one as a toy, or hillbilly yokels who bought one because it "SUPPORTS AMERICA!"

But with a Mustang you get actual performance.

[Vinsanity]

But with a Mustang you get actual performance.

not with the old V6 you don't

[ifcar]

If it's made it this far, why not drive it into the ground? Provided you do the timing belt changes on the engine, it will go hundreds of thousands of miles on regular maintenance and if yours is a 5-speed, the only other real failure point will be the clutch, which probably would be less than $1000 to replace at a shop. If it's an automatic, I see your concern.

If I drive it into the ground I have no resale value. Besides, I have no idea how well it was maintained in the first 96,000 miles -- and judging by cosmetic condition, I'm not inclined to assume it was well.

I'd sooner take the value out of this car and put it into something else that would have all or mostly my own miles.

[AutobahnSHO]

If I drive it into the ground I have no resale value. Besides, I have no idea how well it was maintained in the first 96,000 miles -- and judging by cosmetic condition, I'm not inclined to assume it was well.

I'd sooner take the value out of this car and put it into something else that would have all or mostly my own miles.

The things you mention as "broken" are DIY-fixable with some time and a little bit of patience.
I totally understand the whole "want a new car" bug though- a few months ago I was looking around like mad, just because. Luckily all the cars I wanted were way above the price I could afford with selling my Subie..

[sportyaccordy]

If I drive it into the ground I have no resale value. Besides, I have no idea how well it was maintained in the first 96,000 miles -- and judging by cosmetic condition, I'm not inclined to assume it was well.

I'd sooner take the value out of this car and put it into something else that would have all or mostly my own miles.

I would get a trustworthy mechanic to give it a once over. 96,000 miles is nothing, and if the car doesn't have any known common issues that might pop up it's definitely cheaper to keep her than to sell + go for something you don't know about.

[MX793]

If it's made it this far, why not drive it into the ground? Provided you do the timing belt changes on the engine, it will go hundreds of thousands of miles on regular maintenance and if yours is a 5-speed, the only other real failure point will be the clutch, which probably would be less than $1000 to replace at a shop. If it's an automatic, I see your concern.

I've heard that the clutch in a Focus is a real bear to change.  Like you have to drop the motor to get at the clutch.

[SVT666]

I've heard that the clutch in a Focus is a real bear to change.  Like you have to drop the motor to get at the clutch.

I know I was told $1200 to do the clutch in my SVT.  That includes the clutch, but nonetheless, it was only $600 for my Mustang and that was a Ford Racing King Cobra clutch.