Ownership report: 2005 Honda Accord.

[Raza]

By feel too. It's amazing how much of a difference the lower belt line makes.

Because the interior of my Jetta is basically the same size of my old Passat's, I often forget how much smaller it is on the outside.  I've had to stretch the hose at the fuel pumps more than once.   

[Colonel Cadillac]

Yeah those new facelifted sedan's look nice.  Just saw one the other day.

That's a nice facelift. For Cougs' money, I'd have trouble passing up the G37, 328i, A4 2.0T...don't know if he needs AWD. CPO 2009 A4 2.0T for me if AWD is a requirement.

[GoCougs]

I just prefer Honda products over Nissan, and by all accounts the new TL w/6sp M/T is an overall better performer than the G37, though admittedly the margin is probably not noticeable in daily driving. If the previous generations of the two cars are any indication, the TL will be quieter, ride better and be more refined.

I've decided I need AWD and would much prefer M/T but the G37x is available only with A/T. The G37 however does seem to be quite a $$$ deal, especially on the used market, with the average slightly used '09 G37x at about $30k (the price of a new Legacy GT).

German cars aren't an option at this point.

[Raza]

I just prefer Honda products over Nissan, and by all accounts the new TL w/6sp M/T is an overall better performer than the G37, though admittedly the margin is probably not noticeable in daily driving. If the previous generations of the two cars are any indication, the TL will be quieter, ride better and be more refined.

I've decided I need AWD and would much prefer M/T but the G37x is available only with A/T. The G37 however does seem to be quite a $$$ deal, especially on the used market, with the average slightly used '09 G37x at about $30k (the price of a new Legacy GT).

By what accounts?

[r0tor]

sorry, the TL is pug fugly... if you want AWD get a A4 or A5

[Vinsanity]

If the previous generations of the two cars are any indication, the TL will be quieter, ride better and be more refined.

I'll agree about the quietness and refinement, but I think the previous G35 rode better than the previous TL. Driven back-to-back, you can tell they had to stiffen the TL's front suspension to support the weight of the drivetrain, in comparison to the G35.

[the Teuton]

The TL is the only car I can think of that looks worse than the Legacy.  I'd go Subaru here. 

The Legacy ain't pretty, but it ain't that ugly, either.

[Raza]

The Legacy ain't pretty, but it ain't that ugly, either.

It's hideous, but comely compared to the abortion that is the TL.

[r0tor]

i think abortion is being too kind to the TL

[GoCougs]

By what accounts?

Mag racin'.

I'll agree about the quietness and refinement, but I think the previous G35 rode better than the previous TL. Driven back-to-back, you can tell they had to stiffen the TL's front suspension to support the weight of the drivetrain, in comparison to the G35.

The TL was a bit stiff but it wasn't flinty (i.e. rough like Honda) like I thought the G35 was.

The G37x could be an okay option if I were to tolerate an A/T - Honda still can't do A/T for performance applications. The TL is losing a full second 0-60 and 1/4 mile with the A/T.

[CJ]

Honda automatics suck.  It's that simple. 

[the Teuton]

Honda automatics suck.  It's that simple. 

I wish that weren't true, but it is.

[GoCougs]

Honda automatics suck.  It's that simple. 

At least one big problem with the Accord is that something funky happens if you brake torque from a standstill (i.e., hit gas and brake at same time to be able to rev the engine before launching). The engine noticeably stumbles. I've seen various explanations on the 'Net, from the ECU cutting power (along the lines of a safety feature for unintended acceleration) to locking the torque converter (which would cut RPM). The best launch technique is to simply floor it. Without being able to brake torque acceleration suffers.

A second problem is that though 2nd gear is good for about 70 mph it won't downshift into second, even manually, unless the car is under 60 mph. This can prevent problems when merging or passing between 60 and 70 mph; it's a definite flat spot in the power curve and one can be caught quite flat-footed if not ready for it. So, if there are any pretenses of passing or merging one has to do it under 60 mph or over 70 mph, or just be ready for the flat spot.

And suffice it to say 5 speeds aren't enough and not being able to manually select all gears (the Accord has D, D3, 2, 1 so one can't select 4th) is a no-no in my book.

[565]

Supposedly the Nissan 7 speed automatic is one of the best in the business, it auto blips on downshifts, very smooth and very fast.

C&D tested the automatic 370Z to be faster than the manual 370Z, and supposedly it's got good programming

Here's a quote from Edmunds from their G37 vs TL comparo.

"The combination of an automatic transmission and a car with sporting pretenses is usually a big letdown. Not so in the G-model. Like the TL, the G37 has shift paddles on the steering wheel and does the sporting blip of the throttle on downshifts. Yet the G37 won't spoil your fun even in auto mode, because this G37 facilitates fast driving as well as simple outright speed.

You can simply leave the transmission in Drive if you like, because as you increase your entry speed in corners, the transmission instantly recognizes the situation and begins to hold gears with an aggression that's rare among slushbox hardware. When fun time is over and you want to cruise, the G37's transmission reprises its Clark Kent persona. But by then the secret is out. In its adaptability, the G37 clearly has an enthusiasm for hard driving."


Supposedly it also has the same magnesium paddles as the GT-R ( or very similar ones), which is a nice touch.

[Vinsanity]

The TL was a bit stiff but it wasn't flinty (i.e. rough like Honda) like I thought the G35 was.

I dunno about flinty; the biggest thing I noticed was that the ride, as well as the handling, is noticeably more balanced in the G35 than the TL. If anything, the G35's shocks are a tad on the soft side, while the springs have a good amount of stiffness dialed into them.

[Vinsanity]

Supposedly the Nissan 7 speed automatic is one of the best in the business, it auto blips on downshifts, very smooth and very fast.

C&D tested the automatic 370Z to be faster than the manual 370Z, and supposedly it's got good programming

Here's a quote from Edmunds from their G37 vs TL comparo.

"The combination of an automatic transmission and a car with sporting pretenses is usually a big letdown. Not so in the G-model. Like the TL, the G37 has shift paddles on the steering wheel and does the sporting blip of the throttle on downshifts. Yet the G37 won't spoil your fun even in auto mode, because this G37 facilitates fast driving as well as simple outright speed.

You can simply leave the transmission in Drive if you like, because as you increase your entry speed in corners, the transmission instantly recognizes the situation and begins to hold gears with an aggression that's rare among slushbox hardware. When fun time is over and you want to cruise, the G37's transmission reprises its Clark Kent persona. But by then the secret is out. In its adaptability, the G37 clearly has an enthusiasm for hard driving."


Supposedly it also has the same magnesium paddles as the GT-R ( or very similar ones), which is a nice touch.

I drove a G37 coupe this past weekend with the 7AT transmission. Although I would take the 6MT on the coupe, the automatic is an excellent transmission for a sport sedan. The paddle shifters are perfect for downshifting when approaching a red light.

[CJ]

At least one big problem with the Accord is that something funky happens if you brake torque from a standstill (i.e., hit gas and brake at same time to be able to rev the engine before launching). The engine noticeably stumbles. I've seen various explanations on the 'Net, from the ECU cutting power (along the lines of a safety feature for unintended acceleration) to locking the torque converter (which would cut RPM). The best launch technique is to simply floor it. Without being able to brake torque acceleration suffers.

A second problem is that though 2nd gear is good for about 70 mph it won't downshift into second, even manually, unless the car is under 60 mph. This can prevent problems when merging or passing between 60 and 70 mph; it's a definite flat spot in the power curve and one can be caught quite flat-footed if not ready for it. So, if there are any pretenses of passing or merging one has to do it under 60 mph or over 70 mph, or just be ready for the flat spot.

And suffice it to say 5 speeds aren't enough and not being able to manually select all gears (the Accord has D, D3, 2, 1 so one can't select 4th) is a no-no in my book.

I know.  You must be forgetting about this:

[GoCougs]

I've driven and have been in so-called performance A/T vehicles. I still remain unimpressed; this looks positively painful to me: G37 paddle shifting.

It's still essentially a fluid-based computer, and as such it will be impossible to sidestep the latencies associated with relying on fluid (flow, pressure, etc.) and the control of it (valves, pumps, etc.). Better to just make sure to have at least 6 speeds and just leave it in drive IMO.

[GoCougs]

I know.  You must be forgetting about this:

You wrecked an Accord on the beach?

LOL - j/k. Yeah, looks like you've got first hand experience. Honda apparently just doesn't care, or is spending development dollars on something big (as in an automated manual).

[CJ]

Haha!  Nah, that's part of the highway.  You drive up to the spot, park, and have fun.

[sportyaccordy]

The old G35x's auto tranny was incredibly obedient during spirited driving, and even had downshift throttle blips. I was impressed, even without paddles. They're very fun cars. Honda's auto transmissions have pretty much sucked since the dawn of man so I would have to pass.

Have you considered the Saab 9-2X Aero? It's probably too small for you, but it's AWD, luxurious, fast and cheap.

[r0tor]

Depending on financial situation and willingness to spend, I've decided on the following replacements:

2010 Legacy GT Premium, MSRP ~$29k
2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT, MSRP ~$44k

Will wait till summer and a slightly used MY2010 and save myself 15-20%.

$44k is S4 money

[/thread]

[TBR]

$44k is S4 money

[/thread]

He won't buy German. Something to do with WW2.

[Vinsanity]

He won't buy German. Something to do with WW2.

that's pretty inane. I'm usually skeptical about the value proposition of Audis, but even I'll admit that an S4 is worth $2k more than a fully loaded TL

[GoCougs]

Base MSRP for an S4 is $47k.

Regardless, an Audi, S4 or otherwise, would never ever find its way into my garage at any price.

[Raza]

Have you considered the Saab 9-2X Aero? It's probably too small for you, but it's AWD, luxurious, fast and cheap.

Nicer than a same year Impreza is not exactly what I'd call luxurious.

[GoCougs]

My next car will be Japanese so no Saabs I'm afraid (Saab'd Imprezas do not count as Japanese).

[Raza]

My next car will be Japanese so no Saabs I'm afraid (Saab'd Imprezas do not count as Japanese).

It wouldn't fit your needs anyway.  I like them, but I could understand why someone with different sensibilities would find them too small and too tinny feeling.

Are you set on AWD?  And why so set on Japanese?

The new Lacrosse might actually be a good fit.  Or the Regal GS, if that ever comes out.

[J86]

It wouldn't fit your needs anyway.  I like them, but I could understand why someone with different sensibilities would find them too small and too tinny feeling.

Are you set on AWD?  And why so set of Japanese?

The new Lacrosse might actually be a good fit.  Or the Regal GS, if that ever comes out.

I'd reject that on badge alone

[AutobahnSHO]

I'd reject that on badge alone

Most would.