A question about shifting gears...do you have to come to a complete stop?

[BENZ BOY15]

Here's another stupid BenzBoy question. I was driving with my Dad and I knew he was going to criticize me for something and wouldn't you know it, he gets mad over shifting from reverse to drive. I didn't come to a complete stop and he claims I'm ruining the transmission. It's an automatic and the car is his lovely Pilot.

True or not? I'm not talking about slamming the thing into drive or reverse at a high rate of speed....I wasn't even moving that much. My Aunt does it with a stick shift and it seems fine with her....but she's another awful driver, so I can't really trust her driving skills.

[Rupert]

LOL

Don't do that in an automatic.

[BENZ BOY15]

Ya, he was pretty pissed. I guess I learned it from my Mom and some other people, because they all do it too. Then again, my Mom (believe it or not) is a worse driver than me.

I don't do it all the time, but I admit that sometimes it happens.

I never really thought about it....anyway, I'll come to a complete stop from now on.

[BENZ BOY15]

LOL

Don't do that in an automatic.

But why is it okay in a manual? In the hills above LA, she does it at a good pace too...well I guess she doesn't have a choice given the slope her house is on. The car jerks and even my 'this isn't good' sensor was going off.

[giant_mtb]

My dad used to be terrible at shifting it into D from R before he had come to a complete stop.  Since in our driveway, you have to back out every time...5 years of doing this at least once every day really took it's toll on that poor Explorer's tranny.  Reverse now takes a good 15 seconds to simply engage, and drive takes about 3 seconds.

I told him to stop doing it when I was like 12-13 and he was still driving it.  I doubt he did stop, and within the next couple years, it was fucked.

[giant_mtb]

But why is it okay in a manual? In the hills above LA, she does it at a good pace too...well I guess she doesn't have a choice given the slope her house is on. The car jerks and even my 'this isn't good' sensor was going off.

Perhaps she should learn how to use her toe on the brake and her heel on the gas more effectively so she doesn't have to jerk it into gear.

[Tave]

You don't need to heel-toe to engage 1st smoothly while rolling backwards.

[giant_mtb]

You don't need to heel-toe to engage 1st smoothly while rolling backwards.

Dude, SF has, lyke, 87 degree slopes on dem streetz.

[Rupert]

That's not really the place to use heel and toe... Downshifting is the place to use it, not reversing.

It's all clutch manipulation when you're rolling back and shifting into first.

Which you shouldn't do, anyway, since it's mean to your clutch (and syncros, I think), somewhat. I do it; meh.

[giant_mtb]

That's not really the place to use heel and toe... Downshifting is the place to use it, not reversing.

It's all clutch manipulation when you're rolling back and shifting into first.

Which you shouldn't do, anyway, since it's mean to your clutch (and syncros, I think), somewhat. I do it; meh.

Why not just, instead of rolling backward while shifting; do your backing up, stop the car completely, shift to first, heel-toe if necessary, and take off

?

[Tave]

I don't think Psilos and I are talking about rolling backwards down a hill (which you don't really need to hill-toe for either); we're talking about not coming to a complete stop while reversing before engaging first.

I've always thought it was no worse than starting the car on a hill. I suppose you have to play the clutch a little more than normal, but meh....




In any event, the whole car shouldn't be shuddering.

[Rupert]

Why not just, instead of rolling backward while shifting; do your backing up, stop the car completely, shift to first, heel-toe if necessary, and take off

?

Why, uh, huh? Do you know how to drive a stick?

Heel-toe = braking and rev matching at the same time. You do not need to do this when you go from reverse to first, because there is always a point when you are not moving (by the nature of reversing direction), and reversing is a low-RPM activity.

You only need to be heel-toeing during a high-rev downshift, or other times to be a badass, I guess. I actually can't heel-toe, because my legs are too long to do it in a sports car, which is the only time it's really useful. I can rev match like a good stick driver, of course, but my feet do not go that way for both the brake and throttle at the same time.

[Rupert]

I don't think Psilos and I are talking about rolling backwards down a hill (which you don't really need to hill-toe for either); we're talking about not coming to a complete stop while reversing before engaging first.

I've always thought it was no worse than starting the car on a hill. I suppose you have to play the clutch a little more than normal, but meh....




In any event, the whole car shouldn't be shuddering.

Aye.

[Rupert]

Yeah, I just can't imagine a day-to-day scenario were you would want to even rev match when going from reverse to first or vice-versa. That sounds like:

[giant_mtb]

Why, uh, huh? Do you know how to drive a stick?

Heel-toe = braking and rev matching at the same time. You do not need to do this when you go from reverse to first, because there is always a point when you are not moving (by the nature of reversing direction), and reversing is a low-RPM activity.

You only need to be heel-toeing during a high-rev downshift, or other times to be a badass, I guess. I actually can't heel-toe, because my legs are too long to do it in a sports car, which is the only time it's really useful. I can rev match like a good stick driver, of course, but my feet do not go that way for both the brake and throttle at the same time.

Heh.

[Tave]

I mean, if you're on a hill, you can keep your foot on the brake while you let out the clutch a little bit, and it stops you from rolling back as far.

I don't usually bother anymore.

[Rupert]

Yeah, pretty much. On a really steep hill, I'll contort my foot just enough to get the throttle and brake at the same time, which is like heel-toeing, I guess. Usually, I just assume the person behind me is far enough back and let 'er roll. It's only been a problem when getting out of tight parking spaces in a bigger car on a hill.

[giant_mtb]

I mean, if you're on a hill, you can keep your foot on the brake while you let out the clutch a little bit, and it stops you from rolling back as far.

I don't usually bother anymore.

That's what I was gettin' at.  I figured the hills of SF were steep enough that it would essentially require you to do so.  Then again, I've never driven there, so what do I know.

[BENZ BOY15]

That's what I was gettin' at.  I figured the hills of SF were steep enough that it would essentially require you to do so.  Then again, I've never driven there, so what do I know.

I don't know how people own manuals in SF. Unless you've been there...you really don't have a feel for how steep some of the streets are.

Try driving a stick on this street:



and down the hill we go:

[TurboDan]

I usually come to a full stop, but not all the time. Is it THAT bad?

[BENZ BOY15]

I usually come to a full stop, but not all the time. Is it THAT bad?

Yes! There's another person that pulls this crap on Carspin...I feel better now.

[omicron]

My dad used to be terrible at shifting it into D from R before he had come to a complete stop.  Since in our driveway, you have to back out every time...5 years of doing this at least once every day really took it's toll on that poor Explorer's tranny.  Reverse now takes a good 15 seconds to simply engage, and drive takes about 3 seconds.

I told him to stop doing it when I was like 12-13 and he was still driving it.  I doubt he did stop, and within the next couple years, it was fucked.

[Laconian]

I don't know how people own manuals in SF. Unless you've been there...you really don't have a feel for how steep some of the streets are.

Try driving a stick on this street:

I think the street is flat and the houses are at an angle. Trick photography!

[BimmerM3]

In a manual, it'll just wear out the clutch a bit more, but nothing serious.

I am very rarely worried about rolling back into someone/something. On those rare occasions, I just use my parking brake until I have the clutch engaged.

[Rupert]

Yeah, I've driven stick in hilly places (as hilly as SF, yup) for most of the time I've had cars, and it's not that hard. It might take a little while to get a feel for the car and its clutch, etc., but it's totally doable.

I also have used the parking brake on hills, if it was an unfamiliar clutch. In the Fords I've had, though, the parking brake is a fourth pedal with a ratchet, so that's kind of not happening.

[Byteme]

I don't know how people own manuals in SF. Unless you've been there...you really don't have a feel for how steep some of the streets are.

Try driving a stick on this street:

It would be entertaining to sit and watch drunk people trying to get out of their cars after the bars close on Saturday night.   

In answer to the original question, it's best to come to a complete stop before shifting from forward into reverse, or vice versa with either an automatic or manual transmission.

[AutobahnSHO]

In the automatic transmission, you're tearing up the transmission shifting between R and D when not at a complete stop.
That's why many won't even let you shift out of P or into R unless the brake is on.

The manual transmission, you're messing up the syncros if you hear any grinding when shifting. It is totally possible to shift between any gear with the clutch in or out, depending on how fast/which direction the wheels are turning.

And my first drive in a clutch car (outside of a parking lot,) my dad had me go here, of course I had to stop at that light. In an old old Datsun. I somehow managed to get going without rolling into the car behind me, without spinning, and without stalling. We were both proud of me. 

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1062720060029939546KSgsaG

[Byteme]

I mean, if you're on a hill, you can keep your foot on the brake while you let out the clutch a little bit, and it stops you from rolling back as far.

I don't usually bother anymore.

I guess that depends on how many legs and feet you have.  If the hillis anything at all you are going to have to be giving the car some gas as well.  SO, one foot on the gas one on the brake and ........................?    

On steep hills the hand brake can be your friend.  Try leaving a steep boat ramp once the boat is loaded on the trailer with a manual transmission. 

[S204STi]

I don't know how people own manuals in SF. Unless you've been there...you really don't have a feel for how steep some of the streets are.

Try driving a stick on this street:



and down the hill we go:

It would be a cinch dude, for pros like us.

For starting off on a hill I have occasionally used my handbrake like John.  Seems easier than trying to cover the brakes and roll your toe over, particularly in a situation where you might bump into someone else.

[AutobahnSHO]

It would be a cinch dude, for pros like us.

For starting off on a hill I have occasionally used my handbrake like John.  Seems easier than trying to cover the brakes and roll your toe over, particularly in a situation where you might bump into someone else.

Plus as you start to rev and release the clutch, you can feel it pull on the brake. You know that's when it's safe to release the brake.