Inside Line tests new Audi RS5

[SVT666]

All of which should make the S2k feel faster than the Accord.  And he was specifically talking about how the extra torque of the Accord made it feel faster.  Explain that.

Easy.  Less downshifting.  If you don't need to downshift then it will feel faster even if it's not.

[MrH]

Easy.  Less downshifting.  If you don't need to downshift then it will feel faster even if it's not.

Stop upshifting unnecessarily in the higher revving car then.  It'll "feel" faster if it actually is then.

[SVT666]

Stop upshifting unnecessarily in the higher revving car then.  It'll "feel" faster if it actually is then.

[sportyaccordy]

I throw a right back at you.  First, for the stupid argument of "wanna give [get the car rolling in 5th or 6th gear] a try in your RX-8"?  What the fuck kind of argument is that?  Who would ever want to do that?  That's like trying to rip on a 911, and saying, "let's see you drift one of those things in reverse with that stupid weight distribution ".

Second, I your claim the Accord felt faster, but the S2k actually was faster.  What do you feel what you say a car "feels" fast?  Acceleration.  Your butt tells you, "hey, you, you're getting pushed back into your chair."  You know what a car needs to do to be faster than another car?  Accelerate faster.  It's impossible for a car to "feel" faster and not be faster.

Here goes the ego and penis showing... maybe the day will come when Mr H can disagree with someone without resorting to hyperbole and insults. What do you think guys, am I being too optimistic?

Like I said, the S2K had absolutely no guts down low, and even in its powerband it still didn't have much oomph. The Accord's torque band was a little peakier, which generated that sensation of coming "on cam" and getting into the powerband. Around town it was just easier to get up to speed as well. Overall, straight line wise I came away disappointed with the S2K (even up at ~130 MPH) and pleasantly surprised with the Accord...

Again, just my opinion, but an example of how sensations don't match up with numbers. Same dude with the S2K thought my old H22A Accord (~220HP, 2700lbs) had more kick to it, mainly due to the dramatic VTEC kick; despite the fact that the S2K wound up being faster in a straight line (but not by much). So a lot of the sensation of acceleration comes from the change of the rate of acceleration, which isn't really a strong point for cars like the S2K/RX-8. Obviously a point comes where the shape of the powerband gives way to sheer acceleration, but in the 14-15 second 1/4 mile car range I think it plays a huge role in the sensation of speed.

[r0tor]

Honduh at one point was tuning the VTEC at one point to actually get a dip in power right before it kicked in so the VTEC changeover would feel more dramatic (this is from Hondata)...

[r0tor]

Stop upshifting unnecessarily in the higher revving car then.  It'll "feel" faster if it actually is then.

Per this thread, your suppose to shift way before the powerband starts just for the joy of shifting...

[MrH]

Here goes the ego and penis showing... maybe the day will come when Mr H can disagree with someone without resorting to hyperbole and insults. What do you think guys, am I being too optimistic?

Like I said, the S2K had absolutely no guts down low, and even in its powerband it still didn't have much oomph. The Accord's torque band was a little peakier, which generated that sensation of coming "on cam" and getting into the powerband. Around town it was just easier to get up to speed as well. Overall, straight line wise I came away disappointed with the S2K (even up at ~130 MPH) and pleasantly surprised with the Accord...

Again, just my opinion, but an example of how sensations don't match up with numbers. Same dude with the S2K thought my old H22A Accord (~220HP, 2700lbs) had more kick to it, mainly due to the dramatic VTEC kick; despite the fact that the S2K wound up being faster in a straight line (but not by much). So a lot of the sensation of acceleration comes from the change of the rate of acceleration, which isn't really a strong point for cars like the S2K/RX-8. Obviously a point comes where the shape of the powerband gives way to sheer acceleration, but in the 14-15 second 1/4 mile car range I think it plays a huge role in the sensation of speed.

So we should design cars with a lot of turbo lag, so it "feels" fast when the boost finally kicks in?

Geeze, am I the only one who appreciates flat torque curves?  I always thought car enthusiasts would find that positive, not negative.

I'll start playing nice when the posts stop being so stupid.

[MrH]

Per this thread, your suppose to shift way before the powerband starts just for the joy of shifting...

I thought this was a car enthusiast forum.  Instead, people seem more concerned with V-Tek kicking in and playing with their shifter as much as possible.

[GoCougs]

Reminds of a time during college in facing off against a self-proclaimed enthusiast (albeit a na?ve one):

I had a Dodge Ramcharger. It only had a 318 but I'd built it up with heads, cam, manifold, carb, headers, such that it did relatively good power wise. The guy that lived above me had a Bronco of about the same vintage (w/mostly stock 351 IIRC). As was typical during those days we periodically drove each others' cars as DDs. Anywho, he insisted that his Bronco had "more torque" and was the faster vehicle. I said probably not, you're mostly stock. He insisted no way was that possible, as even built up it didn't feel fast and that, "318s don't have any torque because it's a car engine."

After driving his Bronco after that conversation, I knew what the Gap of Perception was: Pedal travel. The Bronco (as many Fords of the time IMO) had very little gas pedal travel. Sure, drive a car that has twice the pedal travel using the same ?calibrated foot? and duh, you?ll get a lot less power. The implied answer of course is, ?STEP ON THE GAS HARDER.?

Well, sure enough we line 'em up to settle the score, and of course my Ramcharger walked on the Bronco, especially from a roll. He just didn't get why, even after I explained to him the whole pedal travel theory. Like I've said many times, the myths and misconceptions of the technical aspects of how cars really work has not done the craft any good. The subjects of force, torque, gearing and power are pretty simple, plus it shocks me the vehemence when they are brought to the fore to explain why/how cars do what they do.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I thought this was a car enthusiast forum.  Instead, people seem more concerned with V-Tek kicking in and playing with their shifter as much as possible.

Whatever, yo. When I'm drag racin, I like to run through all the gears real quick, then downshift a few times to get into the power bands, and then shift back and forth until I find the rev limiter, then shift up until I'm cruising at the redline, then I hit the nawz. That's how they do it in the movies, mang.

[MexicoCityM3]

I drive my cars in as low RPM as possible except when pushing them.