I hate repairing what the "pros" mess up...

[ChrisV]

yesterday went to "tune up" the Rangie, as it's at 80k miles and was feeling a slight bit sluggish, and fuel mileage has dropped a bit. Since I had changed spark plu wires about 15k miles ago, all I really needed was spark plugs, air cleaner, and to clean off the MAF.

First spark plug i try to remove, the driver's side front, easiest to get to (extremely easy, in fact), and when it came out, I noticed a third of the threads, the ones nearest the electrode end, were flattened. %^@#$%. Looked at the spark plug hole in the aluminum head... Yup.. %^#$^%#$.  Well, at least it only looked like the first half of the thread were screwed up. Tried to run a thread chaser in there, but no go. So I had to go and get a spark plug tap. But since the secondary air injection tubing was in the way of getting straight on to the plug hole with the tap (not in the way to install the plug, mind you), I had to remove that from the driver's side of the engine (a large project), then had to remove the SIA port from the head to clear. 

Held the tap with baby vice grips end-on (liek a screwdriver, not from the side) so I couldn't put too much leverage or pressure on teh tap, but could still spin it by hand, and very carefully tried to find and re-tap the original thread location. With the tap oiled up, I'd screw it in a couple turns, back it out and clean it off, go  little farther and do it again, until it seemed to go in smoothly all the way through. pulled it out, cleaned the threads with a Q tip and checked. Looked OK. Ran an old spark plug down it and it seemed to go in fine, so I put the new plug in by hand and it tightened down where it was supposed to. Had that not worked, it would have required pulling the head and heli-coiling the hole. NOT fun.

Luckily all the other plugs went fine, but it took over 4 hours just to change the spark plugs due to that one hole. Not because it is a Range Rover, but because some tech, when the car was only 30k miles old and still worth quite a bit of money (and only taken to dealers for work), decided that getting to his lunch break was more important that doing a proper job and starting all the plugs by hand properly before wrenching...   

Good thing though, with all the plugs in and the MAF cleaned, it runs noticeably stronger and smoother.

[SVT_Power]

Best part - I've experienced this WAY too many times already and I'm barely cracking 20.

Thus, I've decided to not even go to shops for oil changes. Actually last time was the first time doing my own oil change on the explorer, I noticed the oil drain plug had almost no thread left (after having to fucking kick the wrench to break open the plug) because these idiots probably impacted the thing in without threading it in first.

[Rupert]

I couldn't get the oil filter off the Explorer when I tried to change the oil after I got it because some genius way over-tightened it.

[SVT_Power]

I couldn't get the oil filter off the Explorer when I tried to change the oil after I got it because some genius way over-tightened it.

I think Roy said they intentionally do that because they'd rather make it a pain in the ass for you than risk leaking oil from there and them getting blamed for leaking oil or what happens after the oil is gone.

[J86]

I couldn't get the oil filter off the Explorer when I tried to change the oil after I got it because some genius way over-tightened it.

Same.  Such a pain inthe ass.

[S204STi]

yesterday went to "tune up" the Rangie, as it's at 80k miles and was feeling a slight bit sluggish, and fuel mileage has dropped a bit. Since I had changed spark plu wires about 15k miles ago, all I really needed was spark plugs, air cleaner, and to clean off the MAF.

First spark plug i try to remove, the driver's side front, easiest to get to (extremely easy, in fact), and when it came out, I noticed a third of the threads, the ones nearest the electrode end, were flattened. %^@#$%. Looked at the spark plug hole in the aluminum head... Yup.. %^#$^%#$.  Well, at least it only looked like the first half of the thread were screwed up. Tried to run a thread chaser in there, but no go. So I had to go and get a spark plug tap. But since the secondary air injection tubing was in the way of getting straight on to the plug hole with the tap (not in the way to install the plug, mind you), I had to remove that from the driver's side of the engine (a large project), then had to remove the SIA port from the head to clear. 

Held the tap with baby vice grips end-on (liek a screwdriver, not from the side) so I couldn't put too much leverage or pressure on teh tap, but could still spin it by hand, and very carefully tried to find and re-tap the original thread location. With the tap oiled up, I'd screw it in a couple turns, back it out and clean it off, go  little farther and do it again, until it seemed to go in smoothly all the way through. pulled it out, cleaned the threads with a Q tip and checked. Looked OK. Ran an old spark plug down it and it seemed to go in fine, so I put the new plug in by hand and it tightened down where it was supposed to. Had that not worked, it would have required pulling the head and heli-coiling the hole. NOT fun.

Luckily all the other plugs went fine, but it took over 4 hours just to change the spark plugs due to that one hole. Not because it is a Range Rover, but because some tech, when the car was only 30k miles old and still worth quite a bit of money (and only taken to dealers for work), decided that getting to his lunch break was more important that doing a proper job and starting all the plugs by hand properly before wrenching...   

Good thing though, with all the plugs in and the MAF cleaned, it runs noticeably stronger and smoother.

Sorry to hear that.  I remember looking at a car for a misfire and finding four different brand plugs, one of them only threaded in partially (and leaking exhaust).  I ended up having to do something similar to that head.

Lazy people.

[S204STi]

I think Roy said they intentionally do that because they'd rather make it a pain in the ass for you than risk leaking oil from there and them getting blamed for leaking oil or what happens after the oil is gone.

There were two statements of that type in that thread; I think I did point out that if you tighten them to spec they can be quite hard to remove, while some of them are still kinda sloppy when tightened to spec so a lot of guys (myself included) turn them a bit further so there is no risk of one backing off.  Of course the theoretical risk was that the gasket would be damaged, but of all the spills and come-backs I saw over the years they were all to my memory caused by under-tightening or leaving the old gasket on and double-gasketing it.  

Or forgetting to put the filter on so that it dumps oil on the floor when you attempt to fill it.

[S204STi]

Best part - I've experienced this WAY too many times already and I'm barely cracking 20.

Thus, I've decided to not even go to shops for oil changes. Actually last time was the first time doing my own oil change on the explorer, I noticed the oil drain plug had almost no thread left (after having to fucking kick the wrench to break open the plug) because these idiots probably impacted the thing in without threading it in first.

That does piss me off. 

Something Honda did which I think makes sense is provide pre-calibrated torque wrenches specifically for use on the oil drain plug and filter.  Also, it's very important to replace the crush washer with each oil change.  It will save your threads from damage.

[AutobahnSHO]

That does piss me off. 

Something Honda did which I think makes sense is provide pre-calibrated torque wrenches specifically for use on the oil drain plug and filter.  Also, it's very important to replace the crush washer with each oil change.  It will save your threads from damage.

Oh.   

Where do you get those?

I've never changed one.   

[MX793]

... or leaving the old gasket on and double-gasketing it. 

Nothing makes you worse than double-gasketing an oil filter.  Never done it myself (was always warned to make sure the old gasket came off before installing the new filter), but I've seen it happen.

[S204STi]

Oh.  

Where do you get those?

I've never changed one.    

The crush washers?  Auto parts store might stock them, I know for sure you can get them for your Subaru from the dealer.

As for the wrenches, I doubt you could get those.

[S204STi]

Nothing makes you worse than double-gasketing an oil filter.  Never done it myself (was always warned to make sure the old gasket came off before installing the new filter), but I've seen it happen.

I nearly did it once, but the filter felt odd as I was tightening it so I removed it and looked, and sure enough, the old gasket was still on there.

[The Pirate]

The crush washers?  Auto parts store might stock them, I know for sure you can get them for your Subaru from the dealer.

As for the wrenches, I doubt you could get those.

Yeah, the crush washers are cheap, I think I paid 60 cents apiece at the local Honda dealer.  Need to get some for my Mazda though (I re-used the existing washer on the last two changes, and I hate doing that). 

[giant_mtb]

I was unaware of this crush washer replacement requirement.

In fact, I'm not sure Bravvy even has one, as I recall no such washer in the vicinity of his drain plug when I changed his oil.

[The Pirate]

I was unaware of this crush washer replacement requirement.

In fact, I'm not sure Bravvy even has one, as I recall no such washer in the vicinity of his drain plug when I changed his oil.

Not all cars have them.  Seems to me that they are mostly seen on Japanese and European makes.

[giant_mtb]

Not all cars have them.  Seems to me that they are mostly seen on Japanese and European makes.

Ah, which explains why I've never dealt with one since we own all Fords and GMs.

[The Pirate]

Ah, which explains why I've never dealt with one since we own all Fords and GMs.

Soon to change, I believe the A4 use one.

[giant_mtb]

Soon to change, I believe the A4 use one.

Uh ohes.  I better stock up.

[S204STi]

I was unaware of this crush washer replacement requirement.

In fact, I'm not sure Bravvy even has one, as I recall no such washer in the vicinity of his drain plug when I changed his oil.

No, GM cars don't have them.  You just have to make sure you're careful not to over-do it.

[Onslaught]

Or forgetting to put the filter on so that it dumps oil on the floor when you attempt to fill it.

I don't change oil at work but I do it to my cars and my girls Honda. I did the double gasket one time. I did that to her Honda the first time I changed it. I knew it didn't feel just right but said "fuck it." Pulled the car out to see a trail of oil. Then got in my car and got more oil and did it over again with a red face from being dumb.

[BimmerM3]

Interesting - I've never thought to check to see if the gasket got stuck on the Accord or not. I've never had the problem, but I wonder if I would have noticed if it did happen.

[MX793]

Interesting - I've never thought to check to see if the gasket got stuck on the Accord or not. I've never had the problem, but I wonder if I would have noticed if it did happen.

You would when oil started pouring out of it....

[Byteme]

There were two statements of that type in that thread; I think I did point out that if you tighten them to spec they can be quite hard to remove, while some of them are still kinda sloppy when tightened to spec so a lot of guys (myself included) turn them a bit further so there is no risk of one backing off.  Of course the theoretical risk was that the gasket would be damaged, but of all the spills and come-backs I saw over the years they were all to my memory caused by under-tightening or leaving the old gasket on and double-gasketing it.  

Or forgetting to put the filter on so that it dumps oil on the floor when you attempt to fill it.

Yoy ever get in a hurry and start putting in oil before you put the drain plug back in?

The first oil change I did on my bought new 84 Camaro was a trial because the factory had the oil filter so tight the strap wrench wouldn't work and the screwdriver through the filter trick wouldn't workally wound up using a hammer chisel on the rolled rim of the filter to turn it a fraction of an inch at a time until it was loose enough to remove.

That incident should have been warning of the multitude of troubles that POS car was going to deliver during the remaining 140,000 miles of ownership.

[r0tor]

Unless your overtighten the crap out of your drain plug, you really shouldn't need to replace a crush washer every single time you cange the oil

[Onslaught]

Interesting - I've never thought to check to see if the gasket got stuck on the Accord or not. I've never had the problem, but I wonder if I would have noticed if it did happen.

I always used OEM filters for my Mazda's because i get them for free so why not? I've never had this happen to one of my cars.  But this was a Fram filter for her Honda and I've noticed that half the time the gasket stays on the car when I take them off.

And yes, you'd know very soon if you did it.

[93JC]

Interesting - I've never thought to check to see if the gasket got stuck on the Accord or not. I've never had the problem, but I wonder if I would have noticed if it did happen.

I've never checked either, but I think I would have noticed if the old filter didn't have a gasket stuck to it like the new one.

[BimmerM3]

I always used OEM filters for my Mazda's because i get them for free so why not? I've never had this happen to one of my cars.  But this was a Fram filter for her Honda and I've noticed that half the time the gasket stays on the car when I take them off.

Hmm. I've often used Frams and never had this problem.

You would when oil started pouring out of it....

And yes, you'd know very soon if you did it.

lol... I meant before I started pouring oil into the car.

I've never checked either, but I think I would have noticed if the old filter didn't have a gasket stuck to it like the new one.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

[93JC]

Maybe I don't have the problem because I don't use Fram filters.

I've bought Quaker State, lately.

[280Z Turbo]

Maybe I don't have the problem because I don't use Fram filters.

I've bought Quaker State, lately.

Frams are shit. Just buy a Purolator.

[93JC]

Purolator? Never heard of a Purolator other than the courier company.