Canadian Police Pull Over Entire MINI Convoy

[rohan]

Please, I don't automatically bash the coppers.  I always evaluate the situation and give the swine a fair shake before I say anything. 

Eat shit

[rohan]

My response was a bit much, I admit, but the way you dogmatically defend any police action just pisses me off.  It's so fucking clear that they were told that there was going to be an enthusiast meeting and decided to use the courtesy given to them as a way to unjustly target them and fatten the town's wallets.  Then again, I guess there's a reason you don't tell thieves when you're going out of town either...

Please- show me one post here where I "dogmatically" defen the police officers actions.

Oh and please continue to eat shit. 

[GoCougs]

You must admit though, the media already in place is a bit strange, no?

A bunch of them were doing 20+ mph over the limit, and probably some other screwing around, and got popped. Sucks but no matter of circumstances, whining or justification should get them special treatment over the rest of us (or, Canadians).

Again, if it's all true (I have my doubts) it is an unfortunate continuation of the escalation of the police state but that is not fought by saying one should be able to break well-known rules yet get special treatment.

[dazzleman]

I don't see what the issue is here.  If you're speeding, especially by a wide margin, you're fair game for getting popped and have no right to complain, whatever the means the police used.

[James Young]

Eat shit

Ah, a little touch of class added by Mr. rohan

[Northlands]

Yes I agree that if you're caught speeding 30 over the limit, you've earned yourself a nice ticket.

But ChrisV is definitely on to something here. Media set up with advance notice speaks to something else altogether. It seems pre-meditated.

[Minpin]

I don't see what the issue is here.  If you're speeding, especially by a wide margin, you're fair game for getting popped and have no right to complain, whatever the means the police used.

Sounds like you and J. Edgar Hoover would have been fantastic buddies.

[dazzleman]

You sound pretty foolish with that comment, Minpin.  You're equating surreptitious and illegal surveillance of activities that aren't necessarily illegal, and blackmail based on those activities, with a minor summons issued for an illegal activity done openly.  I don't see the connection at all.  You really devalue your opinions by making such overblown and inappropriate comparisons.

[Raza]

Please- show me one post here where I "dogmatically" defen the police officers actions.

Oh and please continue to eat shit. 

Extremely mature. 

[Tave]

Extremely mature. 

I think you lost the right to take the moral highground in this conversation.

[Submariner]

Sounds like you and J. Edgar Hoover would have been fantastic buddies.

Because of his legal policies or their joint love of dressing up like women?

[dazzleman]

Because of his legal policies or their joint love of dressing up like women?

Hardy har har....

I really don't know how Minpin managed to link the tactics of J. Edgar Hoover to pulling people over for speeding when they were openly speeding.  It seems like typical Minpin hyperbole, based on painfully flawed logic.

[TurboDan]

I see nothing wrong with this. This group probably caused problems in the past, necessitating the "sting operation" on the highway. I doubt the OPP (yeah, you know me) has some kind of anti-MINI campaign going on.

I'm wondering why Children's Services was called, though. Is this a standard thing with speeding tickets in Canada? Or were some of the MINI owners behind on child support or something?

[Raza]

I think you lost the right to take the moral highground in this conversation.

I admitted that my original response was too harsh.  However, when trying to continue on a civil conversation, he simply repeated himself like a child.

[SVT666]

Fail to Maintain Control Over a Motor Vehicle.   We have that slide off law here.

It's stupid.

[SVT666]

I see nothing wrong with this. This group probably caused problems in the past, necessitating the "sting operation" on the highway. I doubt the OPP (yeah, you know me) has some kind of anti-MINI campaign going on.

I'm wondering why Children's Services was called, though. Is this a standard thing with speeding tickets in Canada? Or were some of the MINI owners behind on child support or something?

No.  I've never heard of that happening before.

I have two observations:

1. The media was there, meaning the police were planning on pulling them over and using it as a lesson to anyone else who's thinking of doingt he same thing.

2. The Mini drivers that were caught are beyond stupid since they knew the police knew their route before hand.  I mean come on....

[Payman]

I thought this was "The Enthusiast's Hideout". 

They should have chosen a more rural route... there's some great twisty backroads in the area. And I doubt they'll ever give the OPP a courtesy call again.

[hotrodalex]

You call the media before you bust something does not equal innocent until proven guilty. I have no problem with them setting up patrols to watch them as they cruise by, but they pretty assumed they were gonna get a big bust and decided to go for it. Yes, they were speeding and I do not blame them for handing out tickets. But this event does not give me any faith in them. I want them out being real police officers, you know, stopping crime. Not busting guys to get money (and media attention). If the part about other cars going around them at a faster speed was true, then it further proves that point.

The picture sure seems to support the notion that it was pre-planned. In fact the movement by the cops looks borderline dangerous.

[Pancor]

Pre-planned?  Perhaps, but not specifically targeted at the Mini club.   Saturday morning is when all the cidiot douchebags from Toronto speed their way up North in their Audis and BMWs to bask in the "wilderness" of Muskoka and the cops have been making easy targets of them for years.   When a large group of speeding, modified cars gets nailed, of course it's going to make the news, especially with all these new "streetracing" laws that have come down. 

[rohan]

I admitted that my original response was too harsh.  However, when trying to continue on a civil conversation, he simply repeated himself like a child.

Where in this post are you trying to be civil?

My response was a bit much, I admit, but the way you dogmatically defend any police action just pisses me off.  It's so fucking clear that they were told that there was going to be an enthusiast meeting and decided to use the courtesy given to them as a way to unjustly target them and fatten the town's wallets.  Then again, I guess there's a reason you don't tell thieves when you're going out of town either...

And you have yet to provide any substance to your flat generalizations and accusations here.  On any level.  Oh- and what exactly should I do to avoid you getting pissed off your Majesty?

[rohan]

It's stupid.

What's stupid?  Requiring drivers to maintain control over their vehicle?  Or that we require people to be  responsible for their actions?  I'm just curious what part of that you object to.  And remember- I didn't write that law.  I didn't write any of our laws.  In fact I've never even voted on any of our traffic laws.

[bing_oh]

By their own admission, they knew that they were being shadowed by a OPP motorcycle, meaning that the police knew ahead of time what kind of driving behavior was being displayed by the group. That gives the OPP a lead time in setting up a few cars to make stops and write tickets (how much of a lead time I don't know, since I don't think there's any mention of how far this little rally was). Depending on how much lead time they had and how much radio chatter there was in setting up this "sting," the media may have simply caught on by listening to their scanners. Or, maybe there have been past problems with this group, the OPP knew it and planned on watching them closely, and they informed the media.

Either way, these people in the MINIs are idiots and deserve exactly what they got. They tell the police they're having a rally. They give them the route. They know they're being watched by an OPP motorcycle. And, yet, they still admitted commit traffic violations. Duh!

[James Young]

. . . I didn't write that law.  I didn't write any of our laws.  In fact I've never even voted on any of our traffic laws.

That still doesn?t render you innocent of malfeasance toward the public or of abrogating your responsibility to the public.  People do vote on traffic laws every day.  They vote with their right foot and the outcome of that particular election is that they have no respect for the law because the law has no respect for them. 
Occasionally, they get to vote on a photo enforcement initiative or referendum and they have voted every single time against photo enforcement (red lights and/or speed).  Photo enforcement has never survived a popular vote, not a single one.

[rohan]

Nope- that's wrong.


Elected officials set the laws.  Those people "voting" with their feet- they "voted" with paper first.

[James Young]

?Na?vet? in grownups is often charming; but when coupled with vanity it is indistinguishable from stupidity.?  -- Eric Hoffer

[rohan]

 ?Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.?    Confucius

[James Young]

?Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.?    Confucius

Yes.  Recognition of one's limitations is the starting point toward wisdom.  Some never do learn that.  And some have a much longer journey than others.

On a personal note, one of the things that I learned the hard way toward my doctorate was that there was so much that I could never know.  "A man's got to know his limitations,"  Harry Callahan.

[ChrisV]

Nope- that's wrong.


Elected officials set the laws.  Those people "voting" with their feet- they "voted" with paper first.

Actually a lot of those laws are not passed or even written by any elected officials but by appointed ones that have no public accountability. We vote for people in high office too, who don't represent the public but special interests. That's proven time and time again. The only choice is vote for someone you hate, vote for someone who won't represent you, or not vote at all. Either of the first two things and you're told to shut up because you voted for them, and the latter you're told to shut up because you didn't vote at all. Don't try to tell me this crap is pushed through because we all wanted it. 

Simply put, laws that turn the majority of your voting constituants into criminals are NOT out on the books by said voting constituents.

As for the story at hand, the officers had plenty of opportunity to give out citations before they got to that point. If safety was a concern, why let them speed while being shadowed all the way to the media point? if it's unsafe to speed, then it's unsafe to speed all the way there if you have it in your power to stop it. The police could have been more proactive keeping it safe than just going out to seek revenue and media headlines. Getting notified of a charity cruise, then setting up a media event around a speedtrap implies the assumption of guilt before the convoy even formed.

Only 4 of the drivers got citations, a couple for barely exceeding the limit (remember in kph, the total amount of speed is lower than the numbers suggest. The normal posted limit is 100kph which is 62mph and the ones ticketed were going just about 120kph which equals 75mph.). And then the OPP let the media run with actual lies, such as people being detained until child services could take their kids due to speeding. 

Sorry, the OPP has a history of shady crap, and this is merely the latest in the stunts they pull. As people from the area have said, this is the same OPP that pulled over and impounded one of their own unmarked cars a few months back. Fantino is like a little Mussolini in that agency. Much insanity has ensued since he took over.

But from another report:

.........................

The OPP has been involved with organized driving events for many, many years. In fact, when organizing a navigational rally, an organizing club must inform the local police which is usually the OPP. By law, route speeds must be calculated to within a certain percentage of the legal limit. On occasion, a driver who is behind schedule might exceed the limit somewhat. It has been 17 years since I?ve entered a navi, but even then the occasional speeding ticket was not unheard of. It was rare to have more than one in any event. The officers usually got bored sitting around an empty gravel road waiting for an errant driver and went on to better hunting grounds.

Now the not so fun stuff.

The organizers acted in good faith by attempting to co-operate with the OPP beforehand and during the cruise. They were rewarded by being used as a rather pathetic media stunt. The presence of media as the cars were herded in a line across what was for many years the longest street in the world, was nothing short of premeditated.

You can hear the phone call: ?Hello, A Channel? You guys need to get over here real quick. You?ll never believe what we?re about to do?.

Then, the television reports are carefully worded to sound like 11 MINIs were impounded and Children?s Aid have been called in to rid these MINI driving menaces to society of their offspring. The fact that none of the MINIs were impounded, nor were there any children in the cars that were ticketed, was not relayed to the television viewer. The report did not come out and say specifically that these acts were committed by the MINI drivers, but the inference was there.

I am aware that A Channel is a rural Ontario station that wants to believe they are major market, but do they need to resort to this sort of sensationalistic journalism? Surely a video of the actual people who were driving at 50 kmh over the legal limit with kids in the car would have been a more exciting story, as Julian Fantino himself wretched the poor child from his or her delinquent parent. No, probably not as exciting as a convoy of MINIs.

Following complaints from event organizers, A Channel has removed the offending video from their web site. As of this writing, they have not issued an apology to the participants of the MINI charity cruise.

Did I mention that this was a charity event? That?s correct, this was a charity event.

This cruise is also billed as a family event. The ironic thing is that organizers noted on the private message board that the OPP had been informed of the event. In large red letters. There were even instructions as to how to approach a mid drive lunch stop to prevent any accidents or inconvenience to other patrons. Organizers acted in a fully responsible manner. Anyone behaving outside the law had been full warned.

As for the 4 cars who were actually pulled over, 3 of them were ticketed and the drivers are accepting of their tickets if not of how they were ticketed. It would seem that all acknowledge that if you play, you run the risk of being caught. The issue is with the fact that they were set up with the purpose of making the OPP look good on TV.

The Ontario Provincial Police do a great job on our roads and their officers have always seemed to me to be a great bunch of guys and girls. When management decides to make an example of a very visible minority for the sake of media coverage, they have gone a bit too far.

Yes, a convoy of little shoe boxes being herded by a gaggle of black and whites makes for compelling TV. We get it. Just because it makes for good TV doesn?t mean it should be done. How many more real criminals could they have caught during the time it took them to mess about for the cameras?

For the record, the MINI folks are fully intending to continue their annual charity cruises, collecting donations for the OSPCA.

[GoCougs]

So someone please explain again how this being a charity/family event or that they notified LE in advance warrants special treatment?

[Byteme]

They weren't subject to the same enforcement; per his response, they were targeted while others were let go.

Reminds me of a story.

A cop pulls over a guy for speeding. The guy complains that he wasn't the only one exceeding the limit.  The cop, noticing the fishing gear in the back seat asks "were the fish biting"?  To which the guy replies, "yes".  The cop then asks, "did you catch every fish in the pond?" and the guy replies "You can't catch them all". to which the cop responds "Exactly right, neither can I".