Brute force vs precision and feedback

[sportyaccordy]

Civic Si vs Neon SRT-4.

Cayman S vs 911 Turbo.

E30 M3 vs Sierra RS Cosworth.

Both (E92 M3, 458 Italia, tuned FD RX-7), for whatever reasons (primarily financial) are just not an option.

What do you choose?

For daily driver duty, personally, a car with enough low end to get out of its way and good sounds + consistent pull at the top is enough for me if I can really place it within inches at the limit. There is nothing like a car that is a willing, eager and stable partner beyond 10/10ths, which I don't think a brute force kind of car can do without significant re-engineering.

Thoughts?

[the Teuton]

I think ideally, if the N54 twin turbo BMW I6 could be had in an E46 body, I'd rock something like that. That engine pulls from any RPM. It's addicting.

[2o6]

Scalpel, please.

[hotrodalex]

Both brute force (Camaro & El Camino) and precision (E46 BMW 328i) are present in my driveway.

[SVT32V]

A car lacking brute force cannot possess brute force without re-engineering.

I think it would be easier to make an make an LS1 camaro a precise cornering machine than make an Si fast.

[Payman]

Good example is the Viper GTS vs Porsche 996 Carrera 4 I drove back to back in April. The Viper eats the Porsche during acceleration, but the Porsche is a much better driver's car.

[Cookie Monster]

Precision for me, although I love brute force.

[SVT32V]

Precision for me, although I love brute force.

I would rather have a healthy dose of both, they are not mutually exclusive.

[MrH]

A car lacking brute force cannot possess brute force without re-engineering.

I think it would be easier to make an make an LS1 camaro a precise cornering machine than make an Si fast.

I disagree 100%.  You can make any car faster.  You can't dramatically alter things like steering feel.

[Onslaught]

I have nothing against brute force. But I think it's clear I'm more a precision/feedback person.

[Payman]

I have nothing against brute force. But I think it's clear I'm more a precision/feedback person.

Would a sleigh be brute force or precision/feedback?

[Onslaught]

Would a sleigh be brute force or precision/feedback?

Well the pole was brute force. But the feedback and precision on the sleigh wasn't very good either. Even with it's lightweight.

[BimmerM3]

I disagree 100%.  You can make any car faster.  You can't dramatically alter things like steering feel.

Yeah.

[SVT666]

I disagree 100%.  You can make any car faster.  You can't dramatically alter things like steering feel.

In order to give a FWD scalpel, like my SVT Focus, brute force, it will seriously hinder the steering in the form of torque steer.  You can improve steering feel with solid bushings.  I would rather take a car with brute force and some very good handling like the 2011 Mustang GT and continue to improve on the handling.  But if I had to chose....brute force.  It puts a smile on my face like nothing else.  Great handling does too though and I love my SVT Focus so much that I wanted to buy a second one and put it in storage until this one had run it's course....then I would have another one.  But if it's one or the other, I chose brute force.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Swift... neither

[Onslaught]

In order to give a FWD scalpel, like my SVT Focus, brute force, it will seriously hinder the steering in the form of torque steer. 

That is why you never give a FED brute force. Now brute force on a proper RWD scalpel is the way to go.

[sportyaccordy]

You can only enjoy brute force under ideal conditions. Precision + feedback can be enjoyed in maneuvers as rudimentary as turning through an intersection. I don't know if my preference for precision goes far enough to take a car like an RX-8, but I would probably go with something like a 128i over a '11 Mustang GT, for example.

[Northlands]

Precision. I love the occasional time to play in something with disgusting amounts of power, but daily prefer pinpoint direction and feedback.

I wonder if this is the psychology of those who love to be in control vs. those who want to lose control?

[Submariner]

911 turbo pls.

[Tave]

I couldn't disagree more. I get no more enjoyment from making a routine left/right turn in a BMW than I do in a Dodge Ram. Power is something you can enjoy every time you put your foot on the gas pedal.

I like chuckable cars, and I like cars that respond to inputs well, but I don't think that's the same thing you guys are talking about.

[Rich]

I'll let you know in another 10,000 miles

[Onslaught]

I couldn't disagree more. I get no more enjoyment from making a routine left/right turn in a BMW than I do in a Dodge Ram. Power is something you can enjoy every time you put your foot on the gas pedal.

I like chuckable cars, and I like cars that respond to inputs well, but I don't think that's the same thing you guys are talking about.

I find that in any car I've been in long enough I become accustomed to the power. At first it seems so damn fast but after time it's just normal. So unless we're talking hypercar power it's just the same old thing to me after time. But great handling is great handling forever. And you need to drive some better cars on even better roads if you don't get enjoyment out of turning.

[Minpin]

Confusing poll is confusing.

[Tave]

I find that in any car I've been in long enough I become accustomed to the power. At first it seems so damn fast but after time it's just normal. So unless we're talking hypercar power it's just the same old thing to me after time. But great handling is great handling forever. And you need to drive some better cars on even better roads if you don't get enjoyment out of turning.

How 'bought you tone down the hyperbole 3 notches?


I get plenty of enjoyment out of taking my car out for drives on windy country roads.

I was speaking to this:

Precision. I love the occasional time to play in something with disgusting amounts of power, but daily prefer pinpoint direction and feedback.

Maybe you guys get to drive awesome roads to work every morning where you get to push the limits of a car's handling, but I don't. I drive a fairly straight shot with a couple slow turns and a few red lights. One ascending/descending S-curve is a lot of fun, but that's about it.

Like I said, I appreciate responsive handling as much as the next guy, but honestly, the difference between a car that handles decently and a car that handles well is pretty subtle in day-to-day driving. Power is always noticeable. There are a lot of cars that are responsive that aren't a precise as an Elise or a Miata.

[565]

What?

I'm the only person that chose brute force???   


Figures...

[Onslaught]

How 'bought you tone down the hyperbole 3 notches?


I get plenty of enjoyment out of taking my car out for drives on windy country roads.

I was speaking to this:

Maybe you guys get to drive awesome roads to work every morning where you get to push the limits of a car's handling, but I don't. I drive a fairly straight shot with a couple slow turns and a few red lights. One ascending/descending S-curve is a lot of fun, but that's about it.

Like I said, I appreciate responsive handling as much as the next guy, but honestly, the difference between a car that handles decently and a car that handles well is pretty subtle in day-to-day driving. Power is always noticeable. There are a lot of cars that are responsive that aren't a precise as an Elise or a Miata.

Well I wasn't really busting your balls. But you did say that making a routine turn in a BMW is no better than a Ram. And I've been in both and it's not even close. Not even a routine, every day turn.
And power can be as irrelevant as handling in "normal" driving. You can't use that power in traffic and if you use it on the open road then you can get in trouble with the law rather fast.

I actually think a balance of both is the best. But that wasn't an option.

[Northlands]

How 'bought you tone down the hyperbole 3 notches?


I get plenty of enjoyment out of taking my car out for drives on windy country roads.

I was speaking to this:

Maybe you guys get to drive awesome roads to work every morning where you get to push the limits of a car's handling, but I don't. I drive a fairly straight shot with a couple slow turns and a few red lights. One ascending/descending S-curve is a lot of fun, but that's about it.

Like I said, I appreciate responsive handling as much as the next guy, but honestly, the difference between a car that handles decently and a car that handles well is pretty subtle in day-to-day driving. Power is always noticeable. There are a lot of cars that are responsive that aren't a precise as an Elise or a Miata.

Well I do have an entertaining route. That being said, I've had some cars with some relatively dead steering feel to them that weren't power mongers. I just grew to appreciate vehicles with feedback over time compared to those without it. I still love me some 300 +hp lead sleds though. Just not as much for everyday use.

[Laconian]

Precision and feedback. I agree with Onslaught. Power is fun but it foments illegal situations all too quickly.

I think the NC Miata gets the balance just about right.

[CALL_911]

Man, I want both.

I love brute force, but precision and feedback are nice too. I think I'll take precision and feedback.



But I'd find a way to throw in brute force.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

What?

I'm the only person that chose brute force???   


Figures...

I'm with you. Having owned both types of cars (3 Pony cars and a MR2) I will take Brute Force any day of the week.