Cops Speeding in Non-Emergency Situations

[hounddog]

I can believe the officer training, but as far as their cars being more capable? Come on... I bet a Corolla is just as capable of sustaining high speeds; they just don't use them because Corollas suck at doing pit maneuvers.

Are you really this daft?

Do you have any idea what type of enhancements police cars get over daily drivers?

Even though this has been covered here ad nauseum, I will yet again go over this for you;

Extreme duty brake pads and rotors
Higher pressure brake system
High capacity cooling system
Oversized struts and shocks
Larger diameter stabilizer bars
Rear anti-roll bar
Faster ratio steering
External oil coolant system
External transmission coolant system
Transmission shift points set for harder driving
Heavy duty transmission built for sever duty
Stainless dual exhaust
200 amp alternator
Reinforced frame and body mounts
Ford Racing air intake from the Marauder

Michigan State Police do an severe heat soak prior to brake testing;
four 60-0 stops in a row, followed by a 90-0 stop.  Yet, the CVPI still manages to stop in the tests at around 138-141 feet in the 60-0 tests with super heated brakes.

I sincerely doubt there are very many civilian cars which can even remotely match this.

The CVPI may not be Charger or Ferarri fast, and it may not handle as well as most of the sports cars out there, but it what
it does do well is outlast everything it goes up against in a chase.

[NomisR]

You HAVE to be joking. 

The average pay for a patrolman in this country is about $44,000 which is a very long ways from six figures.  Teachers generally make about 15% more than police, while fire/EMS make about 10% more. 

Even the average DPW (street departments) worker makes more and is less likely to be laid off.

Median Salary for Patro Officer according to Salary.com is $49k, EMT median salary is $39k and the median Salary for Teachers, is $51k.  But you add in overtime, your pay is typically a lot higher than a teachers.  And in Los Angeles, which I assume is one of the highest paid areas for officers, you're looking at closer to $90k and above on average. 

As for DWP, they're overpaid.. no arguments about that.

Immediate relatives such as the wife?  I think the answer should be glaringly obvious.

And why?  So you don't off a coworker because you pulled over his wife for texting while driving?

As for the others; who says they do? 

Read a lot of Dan's posts..

I have never heard of cousins or uncles getting a pass, children often do not either. 

Maybe you should give them your business card.

[hounddog]

Median Salary for Patro Officer according to Salary.com is $49k, EMT median salary is $39k and the median Salary for Teachers, is $51k.  But you add in overtime, your pay is typically a lot higher than a teachers.  And in Los Angeles, which I assume is one of the highest paid areas for officers, you're looking at closer to $90k and above on average.  

Teachers do not work 12 months, so the payscale for them is tilted.  If you calculate their actual pay it is 15% higher as a general rule.

It does seem that, according to that site, police salaries are edging higher but, honestly, it should be since many departments are now requiring higher education to even be considered a candidate.

And why?  So you don't off a coworker because you pulled over his wife for texting while driving?

You have to work with these people, and you have to have a good relationship with them.  How is writing a speeding ticket to a guys wife going to foster a good working relationship?

As I stated, it should be glaringly obvious.  I am not trying to be rude, but it is what it is.

Read a lot of Dan's posts..

Dan is not a police officer.  His posts are made from the knowledge, and position, of a casual observer

Maybe you should give them your business card.

I think you misunderstood that part.  I was, and am, saying extended family regularly receive little or no consideration from police officers in general.  Do some police officers hand out business cards in hopes their relatives get a pass?  Yes.  Does it work?  Not very often.

At least not in my experience.  

[Byteme]

Teachers do not work 12 months, so the payscale for them is tilted.  If you calculate their actual pay it is 15% higher as a general rule.

Many do.  And teacher's don't have the opportunity for private security that cops do either.

You have to work with these people, and you have to have a good relationship with them.  How is writing a speeding ticket to a guys wife going to foster a good working relationship?

I thought the whole idea behind traffic enforcement was safety.  If that's true your fellow officer should be grateful you stopped his wife from behaving in an unsafe manner.  If you pull over some lady and it's a fellow officer's wife and you don't ticket them on that basis you've just quit being a cop and become judge and jury.  Contrats on your new job.   

[hounddog]

Many do.  And teacher's don't have the opportunity for private security that cops do either.

Teachers do not teach for 12 months a year.  What they do for work outside of teaching does not add value to what their teaching salary is.  

Same would apply for what little the private security might pay.

Neither would have any bearing on what each profession might pay.

I thought the whole idea behind traffic enforcement was safety.  If that's true your fellow officer should be grateful you stopped his wife from behaving in an unsafe manner.  If you pull over some lady and it's a fellow officer's wife and you don't ticket them on that basis you've just quit being a cop and become judge and jury.  Contrats on your new job.  

Is there an legitimate point to this poorly executed attempt at cleverness?  

Discretion.

[dih-skresh-uhn]

noun

The power or right to decide or act according to one's own judgment; freedom of judgment or choice: It is entirely within my discretion whether I will go or stay.



Ownership of the English language is paramount in understanding the basics of most things, and will assist you in open debate.  How a police officer applies the law vs. common sense included.   

How and where an officer chooses to utilize statutorily granted descretion is his choice, therefore, it is morally and ethically appropriate.  You are attempting to create a predicament where there is none by introducing emotion into a technically clinical debate.

[Vinsanity]

if Joe Schmo gets a speeding ticket for doing 90 mph in broad daylight on an open highway, then why wouldn't Mrs. Officer also get a ticket for also doing 90 mph in broad daylight on an open highway?

[Byteme]

Teachers do not teach for 12 months a year.  What they do for work outside of teaching does not add value to what their teaching salary is.  

Same would apply for what little the private security might pay.

Neither would have any bearing on what each profession might pay.

Is there an legitimate point to this poorly executed attempt at cleverness?  

Discretion.

[dih-skresh-uhn]

noun

The power or right to decide or act according to one's own judgment; freedom of judgment or choice: It is entirely within my discretion whether I will go or stay.



Ownership of the English language is paramount in understanding the basics of most things, and will assist you in open debate.  How a police officer applies the law vs. common sense included.    

How and where an officer chooses to utilize statutorily granted descretion is his choice, therefore, it is morally and ethically appropriate.  You are attempting to create a predicament where there is none by introducing emotion into a technically clinical debate.

Still the smart ass as always aren't you.  Some teachers do teach 12  months a year.  Get your head out of your ass and look around.  

And while you are in the dictionary youmight look up "sarcasm" as well since you seemed to miss that in my original post.

And I'm simply pointing out the cronyism that takes place in law enforcement.  You can put any kind of spin on it you want but when it's all said and done you've let someone off becasue you know them and work with their spouse.  And then you expect joe citizen to look at cops and think they are fair, honest and deserving of our respect.

Further your "Discretionary" powers end at the point that you let your friends and their spouses off for an offense you would ticket another indivudual for, especially because you are afraid you might incur the wrath of a fellow officer.  Butch up sally. Like I said, cronyism.

[MX793]

Further your "Discretionary" powers end at the point that you let your friends and their spouses off for an offense you would ticket another indivudual for, especially because you are afraid you might incur the wrath of a fellow officer.  Butch up sally. Like I said, cronyism.

Actually, I believe letting friends and family off would be considered favoritism and "conflict of interest".  In many professions, you need to file paperwork to declare potential for favoritism or conflicts of interest.  Like, for instance, if you are responsible for purchasing supplies/equipment for your employer and a family member happens to be a salesperson for a potential supplier of said supplies/equipment.

[MX793]

Median Salary for Patro Officer according to Salary.com is $49k, EMT median salary is $39k and the median Salary for Teachers, is $51k.  But you add in overtime, your pay is typically a lot higher than a teachers.  And in Los Angeles, which I assume is one of the highest paid areas for officers, you're looking at closer to $90k and above on average.  

As for DWP, they're overpaid.. no arguments about that.

Where I am, police make pretty good money.  NYS troopers start in the $50K range while in the academy, get bumped to $66K as soon as they finish the academy, and after one year out of the academy get bumped to just over $70K.  After 5 years in, they're making just under $85K.  That's before regional cost of living adjustments, overtime, hazard pay, etc...  And that's just for regular officers.  If you happen to get promoted to Investigator (eligible after 2 years) or Sgt (eligible after 4 years), you're looking at base pay starting in the $90K range.

I checked the payroll for the local officers in the town I grew up in.  Last year, the average income for the full time officers was just over $70K.  Median household income for the town was $55K.  9 of the top 10 paid town employees were members of the police force.

[SVT_Power]

Are you really this daft?

Do you have any idea what type of enhancements police cars get over daily drivers?

Even though this has been covered here ad nauseum, I will yet again go over this for you;

Extreme duty brake pads and rotors
Higher pressure brake system
High capacity cooling system
Oversized struts and shocks
Larger diameter stabilizer bars
Rear anti-roll bar
Faster ratio steering
External oil coolant system
External transmission coolant system
Transmission shift points set for harder driving
Heavy duty transmission built for sever duty
Stainless dual exhaust
200 amp alternator
Reinforced frame and body mounts
Ford Racing air intake from the Marauder

Michigan State Police do an severe heat soak prior to brake testing;
four 60-0 stops in a row, followed by a 90-0 stop.  Yet, the CVPI still manages to stop in the tests at around 138-141 feet in the 60-0 tests with super heated brakes.

I sincerely doubt there are very many civilian cars which can even remotely match this.

The CVPI may not be Charger or Ferarri fast, and it may not handle as well as most of the sports cars out there, but it what
it does do well is outlast everything it goes up against in a chase.

Just because you mention all the upgrades the police package CV's gets doesn't mean it all applies (for example, what does the bigger alternator have to anything with high speed driving, which was what you two were talking about). And we're talking about upgrading a base CV. Hardly a dynamically capable vehicle to start with. Really, if the CV wasn't such a roomy vehicle for all the equipment, would police still use them?

[SVT_Power]

Where I am, police make pretty good money.  NYS troopers start in the $50K range while in the academy, get bumped to $66K as soon as they finish the academy, and after one year out of the academy get bumped to just over $70K.  After 5 years in, they're making just under $85K.  That's before regional cost of living adjustments, overtime, hazard pay, etc...  And that's just for regular officers.  If you happen to get promoted to Investigator (eligible after 2 years) or Sgt (eligible after 4 years), you're looking at base pay starting in the $90K range.

I checked the payroll for the local officers in the town I grew up in.  Last year, the average income for the full time officers was just over $70K.  Median household income for the town was $55K.  9 of the top 10 paid town employees were members of the police force.

Wow...

Why am I trying to get a fancy degree? 

[hounddog]

Still the smart ass as always aren't you.  Some teachers do teach 12  months a year.  Get your head out of your ass and look around.  

And while you are in the dictionary youmight look up "sarcasm" as well since you seemed to miss that in my original post.

And I'm simply pointing out the cronyism that takes place in law enforcement.  You can put any kind of spin on it you want but when it's all said and done you've let someone off becasue you know them and work with their spouse.  And then you expect joe citizen to look at cops and think they are fair, honest and deserving of our respect.

Further your "Discretionary" powers end at the point that you let your friends and their spouses off for an offense you would ticket another indivudual for, especially because you are afraid you might incur the wrath of a fellow officer.  Butch up sally. Like I said, cronyism.

You said "many" teach year round, but now you are saying "some."  Which is it?

There are no established parameters as to where discretion ends, otherwise it would not be called "discretion."  

As for Joe Citizen, I expect nothing of the sort from them.  The general rule is the general public is uneducated on the law, and ignorant to their own rights.  And I will just gloss over the fact that the wide majority of citizens in this country are just plain ignorant and uneducated.  

But, it is nice to see that your fall back position is name calling and insults.  

I suspected that is where you would go, but I did not realize it would be the very next post.  Congratulations on exceeding my low expectations of this thread, and the people who think they have an understanding of law.

I am, however, sorry that you are not capable of carrying out a credible debate.

[hounddog]

Just because you mention all the upgrades the police package CV's gets doesn't mean it all applies (for example, what does the bigger alternator have to anything with high speed driving, which was what you two were talking about). And we're talking about upgrading a base CV. Hardly a dynamically capable vehicle to start with. Really, if the CV wasn't such a roomy vehicle for all the equipment, would police still use them?

You need to understand the usage of a patrol car during high speed or harsh driving. 

One of the places cars fail is in the electrical system, which powers the engine, modern brakes, the cars own computer, cooling fan, blower for AC/Heat, brake lights, headlights and so on. 

On top of that the system must also power emergency lights, siren, computer and whatever else is hooked to the car. 

As the car is driven hard the draw on the system grow larger as the car gets pushed harder and harder for obvious reasons, and as the chase stops and goes the hot car must keep all systems working at optimum efficancy. 

The vehicles systems do work independantly, however, they also work in concert to make the car go long and harder than anything else on the road. 

If any of the systems fails, the car fails.

And, if the car was not large enough to handle all the equipment then it would likely not have ever been a police car to start with.  The question is moot.

[hounddog]

Wow...

Why am I trying to get a fancy degree?  

I sincerely doubt that police officers are making more than business owners.  

The owner of our local grocery store, for instance, owns a small chain.  In our franchise store alone he made almost a million dollars last year.  

And that is just a local type grocery store.

Therefore, I challenge the voracity of his claims that police officers made up the top 90% of wage earners in the city.

[hounddog]

if Joe Schmo gets a speeding ticket for doing 90 mph in broad daylight on an open highway, then why wouldn't Mrs. Officer also get a ticket for also doing 90 mph in broad daylight on an open highway?

Would it better suit you were it night when she is stopped?



You state 90, but no limit so I assume you mean 70? 

If so, 20 is not really something that people should complain about that a wife would walk off from. 

I wonder, do/can any of you people have slightest inkling of understanding of what police wives sacrifice?

[MX793]

I sincerely doubt that police officers are making more than business owners.  

The owner of our local grocery store, for instance, owns a small chain.  In our franchise store alone he made almost a million dollars last year.  

And that is just a local type grocery store.

Therefore, I challenge the voracity of his claims that police officers made up the top 90% of wage earners in the city.

I never said they made more than 90% of wage earners in the town.  I said that of the people on the town's payroll (town employee = employee of the the town), 9 of the top 10 highest paid individuals were on the police force.  This was in response to your claim that police are lower paid than other government employees (i.e. DPW workers) at the local level.  While this may just be a fluke that is unique to the region, for this particular town the police are higher paid than other town employees (such as DPW workers) and, as individuals, made more than the median household for the town.

[hounddog]

9 of the top 10 paid town employees were members of the police force.

I see now where I misread what you wrote.

I must have just glossed over it.

My mistake.

[Vinsanity]

You state 90, but no limit so I assume you mean 70? 

If so, 20 is not really something that people should complain about that a wife would walk off from. 

My point is that if I'm getting a speeding ticket, then anyone driving the same speed in the same conditions should also get a speeding ticket.

[hounddog]

So are you suggesting that everyone stopped for speeding should get a ticket? 

[Vinsanity]

So are you suggesting that everyone stopped for speeding should get a ticket? 

I'm suggesting that "I know Officer So-and-So" shouldn't be an excuse to get out of a ticket.

[hounddog]

Then you are saying regular people can get out of tickets for the myriad of reasons they do, but people who are related should automatically receive tickets?

[Vinsanity]

Then you are saying regular people can get out of tickets for the myriad of reasons they do, but people who are related should automatically receive tickets?

No, they can try the same myriad of reasons that the rest of us have.

[hounddog]

So.......where is the difference then if they are still not getting a ticket?

[dazzleman]

So.......where is the difference then if they are still not getting a ticket?

Tony, you're being a little disingenuous here.  Around here, at least, if you know a cop well enough, it is much easier to get out of a ticket.  The problem is especially bad in New York or New Jersey.

I'm practical and I don't have a problem with this within certain boundaries.  Every job has its perks, and the ability to get yourself and some close family members out of routine tickets is a perk of being a cop that helps to offset some of the job's downside.  I recognize this and don't really mind it.  But when this extends to too many people, or to more serious offenses like drunk driving (and in New York and New Jersey it surely does), then it's a problem.

[hounddog]

Possibly.

However, the point of my questions is to point out both the flaw in his argument and the double standard he is implying, or rather suggesting (?).

[dazzleman]

I never said they made more than 90% of wage earners in the town.  I said that of the people on the town's payroll (town employee = employee of the the town), 9 of the top 10 highest paid individuals were on the police force.  This was in response to your claim that police are lower paid than other government employees (i.e. DPW workers) at the local level.  While this may just be a fluke that is unique to the region, for this particular town the police are higher paid than other town employees (such as DPW workers) and, as individuals, made more than the median household for the town.

Keep in mind that some of what the officers earn is overtime paid by private sources.  That is at least the case in my town.  Officers can work private details for which the town is reimbursed, but the pay from private sources shows up in the officers' earnings for the year, even though a large chunk of those earnings were not paid for by the taxpayers.

[dazzleman]

Possibly.

However, the point of my questions is to point out both the flaw in his argument and the double standard he is implying, or rather suggesting (?).

Some people are absolutists on the issue, and think police should be treated no differently than a regular citizen, even when they're on duty.  I'm not an absolutist, as I said.  I don't mind a little 'professional courtesy' within limits, but if it goes too far, it undermines public trust in law enforcement.

Personally, I'd be reluctant to use a personal connection with an LEO to get out of a ticket.  I don't like to use people, and I would feel as if I were using the friend/relative who was an LEO if I invoked his name when I got pulled over.  I'd be more likely to just quietly accept my ticket without saying anything.  I have a strong sense of justice that I apply even to myself.

[hounddog]

Personally, I'd be reluctant to use a personal connection with an LEO to get out of a ticket.  

I would have slapped you like a  woman, and then pee'd in your gas tank had you tried it with me.








And, so that everyone is clear here; the only time I have ever blurted out that I was a police officer is if I was carrying a firearm.  I was, and am, a believer that if I get stopped and the officer does not see my ID and I get a ticket then so be it. 

I have a similar sense of personal responsibility, Dave.  I am merely arguing the concept, as I described, in more of a technically clinical manner.   At least, that was how I started.

As I stated in my first post in this thread, there is a reason why most of us do not post here.  But, I thought I would try. 

[dazzleman]

I would have slapped you like a  woman, and then pee'd in your gas tank had you tried it with me.

Oh, I'd never try that with you, man.  I'd be HONORED to get a ticket from you....


I've said the same thing to Randy. 

[hounddog]

I added a bit more.

Well, thanks. 

Even though I literally wrote thousands of tickets, I only wrote maybe 1 out of maybe 5 cars I stopped.