Accord won't start?!

[Cookie Monster]

Hey guys,

The old Accord V6 that I sold to my roommate won't start anymore... The battery is fine, and the starter is getting juice, but there's a metallic grinding noise when the starter starts. Also, if I try giving it some gas while turning the key, the metallic noise gets louder, the revs go up on the tach, and there's the smell of gas in the car (so the motor is getting fuel) but the engine won't start.

Any ideas? Oil level also looks OK.

[FoMoJo]

Do starters still have Bendix gears?

[2o6]

Sounds like a bad starter.

[the Teuton]

Sounds like a bad starter.

Werd. My starter makes such a noise sometimes.

[Cookie Monster]

Sounds like a bad starter.

But it does turn over.

[the Teuton]

But it does turn over.

It sounds like a bad starter. It can still grind.

[2o6]

But it does turn over.

Gear that turns the (driveshaft?) to start the car isn't releasing. It's the equivalent of trying to start your car when it's already on.

[Cookie Monster]

Gear that turns the (driveshaft?) to start the car isn't releasing. It's the equivalent of trying to start your car when it's already on.

Do you mean the flywheel?

But why doesn't the engine start?

I'll tell him it's probably the starter.

[Rupert]

Ehm, I dunno about the starter. Starter engages, engine fires, revs move with gas, but grinding, gas smell, and doesn't stay running.

Check the air filter? CEL? If there's a gas smell, then the injectors are injecting, but gas can't burn without air, so maybe that. I hate to get all Accord-alyptic, but maybe compression. Check oi for coolant and coolant for oil. Or, gas smell means gas leak, maybe. I think the grinding is probably starter related-- if it's engaged and the engine is sort of running, it'll grind.

If was just the starter getting stuck, etc, I think that the car would stay running.

[AutobahnSHO]

Any leaks?
Make a video.

[Cookie Monster]

Ehm, I dunno about the starter. Starter engages, engine fires, revs move with gas, but grinding, gas smell, and doesn't stay running.

Check the air filter? CEL? If there's a gas smell, then the injectors are injecting, but gas can't burn without air, so maybe that. I hate to get all Accord-alyptic, but maybe compression. Check oi for coolant and coolant for oil. Or, gas smell means gas leak, maybe. I think the grinding is probably starter related-- if it's engaged and the engine is sort of running, it'll grind.

If was just the starter getting stuck, etc, I think that the car would stay running.

There is a CEL. It had a CEL for a couple of days, apparently.

I agree that I don't think it's the starter because it moves and turns the engine over. If it truly were the starter, why doesn't the engine start up?

I didn't see coolant in the oil but it was dark. I'll check tomorrow and also make a video.

[Secret Chimp]

Hey guys,

The old Accord V6 that I sold to my roommate won't start anymore... The battery is fine, and the starter is getting juice, but there's a metallic grinding noise when the starter starts. Also, if I try giving it some gas while turning the key, the metallic noise gets louder, the revs go up on the tach, and there's the smell of gas in the car (so the motor is getting fuel) but the engine won't start.

Any ideas? Oil level also looks OK.

How can the revs go up if the engine isn't running? Does the starter noise ever transition from the chirpy-chugging starting noise to that kind of sandy-whizzy noise you get when you're holding the key too long and the engine's already gotten going?

[FoMoJo]

It was the metallic grinding noise when the starter starts that you mentioned that made me think it might be the starter.  In older vehicles it was not uncommon that the 'Bendix' gear would get stuck in the flywheel creating drag both on the starter motor and the engine when it was trying to fire.

[Cookie Monster]

How can the revs go up if the engine isn't running? Does the starter noise ever transition from the chirpy-chugging starting noise to that kind of sandy-whizzy noise you get when you're holding the key too long and the engine's already gotten going?

As in the revs on the tach start going up without the engine being turned on.

And it sounds like you're holding the key for too long when the engine's already started, even without the engine starting.

[FoMoJo]

As in the revs on the tach start going up without the engine being turned on.

And it sounds like you're holding the key for too long when the engine's already started, even without the engine starting.

Sounds more like it's just flooding.

[Cookie Monster]

Sounds more like it's just flooding.

Well that's possible, especially since I smelled gas while cranking it.

[Middle_Path]

It was the metallic grinding noise when the starter starts that you mentioned that made me think it might be the starter.  In older vehicles it was not uncommon that the 'Bendix' gear would get stuck in the flywheel creating drag both on the starter motor and the engine when it was trying to fire.

I knew about the gear, but for some reason I didn't know the name. Bendix gear, eh? Thanks, I won't forget that one.

[Rupert]

CEL = Check the Engine, 'casue the Light is telling you too.

In other words, pull the codes.

[Secret Chimp]

It sounds like the car doesn't know the engine is running - you might get a flooding/stinky condition if the ECU doesn't switch out of start mode once the engine catches, which usually has the coils and injectors on full tilt. As far as I can tell from Das Gugels the starter is just a normal electric-motor-with-gears affair without any sensors that would be telling the ECU anything, so methinks the answer may lay behind the CEL.

What happens if you get the revs to come up in the way you describe and let go of the key? Can you keep it running or does it die immediately?

[Rupert]

IMO, not checking a CEL when the car is having a problem is like ignoring a Chinese speaker's translator when they're describing their terrible sickness.

[Cookie Monster]

It sounds like the car doesn't know the engine is running - you might get a flooding/stinky condition if the ECU doesn't switch out of start mode once the engine catches, which usually has the coils and injectors on full tilt. As far as I can tell from Das Gugels the starter is just a normal electric-motor-with-gears affair without any sensors that would be telling the ECU anything, so methinks the answer may lay behind the CEL.

What happens if you get the revs to come up in the way you describe and let go of the key? Can you keep it running or does it die immediately?

If I let go of the key, it dies completely. It doesn't even catch and start.

I've been busy studying for a test I have today, so tomorrow morning I'll look at the car again in the daylight and take a video as well.

Rupert, it's not my car anymore and so I didn't know it had a CEL. My roommate told me it had a CEL for a couple of days before it stopped running.

[Secret Chimp]

If I let go of the key, it dies completely. It doesn't even catch and start.

I've been busy studying for a test I have today, so tomorrow morning I'll look at the car again in the daylight and take a video as well.

Rupert, it's not my car anymore and so I didn't know it had a CEL. My roommate told me it had a CEL for a couple of days before it stopped running.

That makes me think there's some failure of a part or sensor related to ignition or ignition timing.

[Cookie Monster]

Is it possible that the distributor is dead so the spark plugs arent working?

That doesn't explain the weird metallic grating noise though.

[CJ]

Is the battery dead?

[Secret Chimp]

Is the battery dead?

Yes, the dead battery is turning over the motor and making it flood itself.

Is it possible that the distributor is dead so the spark plugs arent working?

That doesn't explain the weird metallic grating noise though.

If you feel adventurous, pull a spark plug, put the wire back on it and hold it against the block or chassis while someone tries to start it. Or use a wire around the ground strap if you're by yourself. You know the rest.

[Cookie Monster]

A video:

[AutobahnSHO]

That noise at the end as it dies sounds like the starter is still trying to engage.

Probably very very flooded by now. My dummy amateur self would start it and then keep it floored as you turn the key and it fires up to give it lots of airflow.


After you get the starter fixed of course.  Sometimes smacking it really hard with a sledgehammer fixes it...

[Rupert]

If I let go of the key, it dies completely. It doesn't even catch and start.

I've been busy studying for a test I have today, so tomorrow morning I'll look at the car again in the daylight and take a video as well.

Rupert, it's not my car anymore and so I didn't know it had a CEL. My roommate told me it had a CEL for a couple of days before it stopped running.

Right, but if there is or was a CEL, then you can still pull the code.

[Rupert]

That noise at the end as it dies sounds like the starter is still trying to engage.

Probably very very flooded by now. By dummy amateur self would start it and then keep it floored as you turn the key and it fires up to give it lots of airflow.


After you get the starter fixed of course.  Sometimes smacking it really hard with a sledgehammer fixes it...

If the starter wasn't engaging, then you'd never get RPMs. I agree that that's what it sounds like, but it can't be the only problem.

[Middle_Path]

Spark or fuel is fucked up, but sounds like it's getting gas. Check your plugs and undo the battery to reset your computer.