Confession

[SVT666]

I have a confession to make.

I've been dreaming about paddles.  I can't get them out of my head.  Ever since I drove the G37 with paddle shifters I have been doing nothing but wondering if any of the other cars I want to buy will be coming out with them soon.  I love a slick shifting 6 speed as much as the next guy and I have argued to the death on here about never wanting paddle shifters in my cars, but the problem with my arguments was that I had only ever driven poorly setup examples, like the Camaro SS.  The G37 isn't perfect by any means, but it's light years ahead of the Camaro's setup.  I can downshift smoother than the Infiniti's system and the transmission was a little slow to react (500 rpm behind) under full throttle, but every other shift was almost perfectly timed with when I flicked the paddle and perfectly smooth.  I think I'm solidly in the Flappy Paddle camp now boys.  I might have to insist that my next car has them. 

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

It would depend on the type of car. Although I have been looking at C6s with paddle shift. I'd have to spend a lil time with one before I could commit to buying one.

[sportyaccordy]

I would much rather have a good flappy daddy auto than a UPS truck manual

Plus w/modern cars you pretty much lose nothing performance or fuel economy wise going auto

Not to mention, goofy EPA testing cheats & e-throttles have taken away a bit of the response manuals are known for.

I drove a 1st gen G35x and came away impressed with the manumatic setup. I don't know that I was convinced to the point that I wouldn't want a traditional manual in the stable, but if I had to go automatic I wouldn't mind with something like that.

I think stickshift is cool in older slower analog cars. Like, I would never get an old Honda or BMW in automatic. But these new cars with their 7 speed autos and low 13 second quarter miles are a different animal. So I def understand.

[dazzleman]

It's really hard for me to shift gears without a clutch.  The two actions seem to be inextricably linked in my mind.

[sportyaccordy]

I think with an auto during normal driving it makes no sense to go into manual mode. In that context its a meaningless gimmick. But during spirited driving or on a track, w/a good transmission cooler and responsive programming it can be good. Not the best of both worlds, but a good compromise, and way better than a bad MT setup.

[SVT666]

It's really hard for me to shift gears without a clutch.  The two actions seem to be inextricably linked in my mind.

I felt the same way until I drove a good paddle shift.

[r0tor]

The dual clutch floppy paddles are almost all really good as are a lot of the newer traditional automatics with the floppy paddles... on the truly good setups there aren't many good reasons not to get them save for ideology/sentimental/penislength

[SVT666]

I would much rather have a good flappy daddy auto than a UPS truck manual

Plus w/modern cars you pretty much lose nothing performance or fuel economy wise going auto

Not to mention, goofy EPA testing cheats & e-throttles have taken away a bit of the response manuals are known for.

I drove a 1st gen G35x and came away impressed with the manumatic setup. I don't know that I was convinced to the point that I wouldn't want a traditional manual in the stable, but if I had to go automatic I wouldn't mind with something like that.

I think stickshift is cool in older slower analog cars. Like, I would never get an old Honda or BMW in automatic. But these new cars with their 7 speed autos and low 13 second quarter miles are a different animal. So I def understand.

The G37's paddles are definitely an improvement over the first gen G35.  I got in the SVT Focus afterward to drive home and it has one of the slickest shifters of all time, and it felt like a chore after driving flappy paddles.

[CALL_911]

Thing is, it's still just a regular torque converter AT (barring the VW DSG cars and other cars with DCTs) with the +/- commands relocated to the steering wheel. Having used manumatics, I just can't see the value in it. At the end of the day, the shift feel is still the same as a torque-converter automatic (which the G37/Camaro SS have), and they aren't really any better than a regular automatic. I'm still a fan of the manual transmission.

That said, I have not driven a car with a DCT, and that could very well change my mind. But it would have to be really, really fucking good.

[the Teuton]

I've not driven a DCT, but if I had to choose BMW's SMG against a traditional 6-speed, I'd go with the row 'em gearbox.

[sportyaccordy]

Yea but SMGs are the cavemen of automanual transmissions. Each shift is like a swan dive into concrete. That's like saying "between a dude w/a bucket and a hand cranked pump, i would choose the hand cranked pump" lol.

[ChrisV]

At the end of the day, the shift feel is still the same as a torque-converter automatic (which the G37/Camaro SS have), and they aren't really any better than a regular automatic.

Hell, in my old torque converter equipped 7 series, the sport/manual mode on the auto doesn't feel like the auto mode, and is much more responsive than an older slushbox, and it doesn't even have paddles. A shift kit equipped older domestic auto feels vastly differnt than your normal automatic. So maybe with the paddles, they changed the valve body programming to make it vastly different, as well.

I really have this feeling that people that say what you did have very little overall experience with automatics other than a few stock economy cars and some American tuned-to-be-too-smooth slushboxes.

[hotrodalex]

It's really hard for me to shift gears without a clutch.  The two actions seem to be inextricably linked in my mind.

I shift gears myself in automatics too. Can't stand when they don't kick down or whatever. Plus, engine braking is very helpful on some of the backroads around here. It's a lot nicer to put it into 2nd and just let it coast down the hill without running into the person in front of you than it is to be on the brakes all the way down.

I'd be fine with paddles on a car that already comes with an auto, but I still love manuals.

[S204STi]

I reallyy dig DSG trannies, so I'm with you Hemi; it ceertainly poses a strong dilemma.

[CALL_911]

Hell, in my old torque converter equipped 7 series, the sport/manual mode on the auto doesn't feel like the auto mode, and is much more responsive than an older slushbox, and it doesn't even have paddles. A shift kit equipped older domestic auto feels vastly differnt than your normal automatic. So maybe with the paddles, they changed the valve body programming to make it vastly different, as well.

I really have this feeling that people that say what you did have very little overall experience with automatics other than a few stock economy cars and some American tuned-to-be-too-smooth slushboxes.

While I haven't driven every car under the sun, I have driven enough to know a thing or two about automatics. The two cars I drive most often are a 6AT A4 2.0T and a 6AT 535i, so I think I have a favorable sampling of ATs. I'll admit, there are times when I like having an automatic, but the majority of the time, I'd prefer a manual.

[SVT666]

If you remember, I was a manual or nothing guy too.  That was until I actually drove a car with a good flappy paddle system.  I still love manuals, but the flappy paddles are pretty damn cool if done right.

[GoCougs]

Paddle shifters on a traditional torque-converter A/T are a colossal waste of time, even if one isn't trolling.

[the Teuton]

Paddle shifters on a traditional torque-converter A/T are a colossal waste of time, even if one isn't trolling.

I'm going to agree.

If you need the car to kick down a gear, get a transmission with a D-4-3-Lo setup.

If you really want to be driving a car with a DIY transmission, buy a manual.

The only reason these race transmissions are making headway is because they are more efficient. But to me, they're still joyless driving.

[SVT666]

A month ago I would have agreed with you Teuts, but not anymore.  Not after driving a good one.  After driving the Camaro SS with the paddles, it only reassured me that my disgust of paddles was valid.  After driving the Infiniti that opinion has changed.

[SVT666]

Paddle shifters on a traditional torque-converter A/T are a colossal waste of time, even if one isn't trolling.

I love how you never give any reasons when you give your opinion.  Please explain, because I disagree.

[Raza]

I've done the paddle thing a few times, and it isn't for me.  I did tiptronic back in the day, but getting a real stick was the end of it. 

[Tave]

getting a real stick was the end of it. 

[sportyaccordy]

Paddle shifters on a traditional torque-converter A/T are a colossal waste of time, even if one isn't trolling.

Why?

You yourself drive an automatic. There are people who enjoy driving beyond trying to put "fake German Car yuppies" in their place and engage in spirited or track driving that involves more than flooring the gas. W/a good manumatic, u can have full control when u want it, and then let the car do the shifting when u don't. How's that a waste of time? Seems like a win win to me.

I personally would ahve to do more sampling as I haven't driven an auto that fully convinced me. But after flogging that SL55, and seeing what that G35x was like, I def see the value in autos that are more than just black boxes.

[Raza]

[GoCougs]

I love how you never give any reasons when you give your opinion.  Please explain, because I disagree.

It's a waste of time because just as Tuets says it provides zero functional advantage over a floor-mounted A/T shifter (the likes of which have been in cars for decades).

[GoCougs]

Why?

You yourself drive an automatic. There are people who enjoy driving beyond trying to put "fake German Car yuppies" in their place and engage in spirited or track driving that involves more than flooring the gas. W/a good manumatic, u can have full control when u want it, and then let the car do the shifting when u don't. How's that a waste of time? Seems like a win win to me.

I personally would ahve to do more sampling as I haven't driven an auto that fully convinced me. But after flogging that SL55, and seeing what that G35x was like, I def see the value in autos that are more than just black boxes.

Just as Tuets says it provides zero functional advantage over a floor-mounted A/T shifter (the likes of which have been in cars for decades).

[giant_mtb]

Now that I have a manual gearbox, I'll never go back to an automatic or a flappy-paddle (unless it's a super awesome Ferrariz one!!!!).

The manumatic in my brother's '05 G35 coupe is painfully slow; the lag between when he pushes the shifter and when the shift actually happens is pathetically large.  I also drove a brand new Subaru with a flappy paddle gearbox (I know, not exactly tuned for performance, I'm sure) and it was rather pathetic as well.

Paddles are cool and I'd take them if they were all that was offered on a car like a Ferrari or whatever, but until that day happens, I'm definitely in love with a gear lever and a third pedal.

[Tave]

Floor-mounted A/T shifters are not designed to shift on-the-fly often, and as a result make a poor substitute for a nice manumatic setup, if for no other reason than simple ergonomics and layout. And ergonomics and layout can count for a lot. (3-on-the-tree manual transmissions, anyone?)

[Cookie Monster]

IMO, I agree with Cougs. The 7 has a "manual" mode and it stinks. Shifts never come when you want them to and it shifts on its own all too often. Left in auto mode it's much better.

I really want to try a DSG equipped GTI or EVO X. However, I think I'd still go with a real manual. Executing perfect shifts is just too fun for me.

[CJ]

DSG in the GTI is absolutely superb.