Consumer Guide review: 06 Grand Vitara

[mazda6er]

For almost any engine, especially a V6 or above, you can find lots of cars with less power. Doesn't mean it's a good engine though. Take this example:

The Dodge Stratus 2.7-liter V6 has 200 horsepower. That's more hp and displacement than any number of other midsize 4-cylinder sedans. Does that make it a good engine?

We weren't discussing whether it was "good" or not, only whether it had insufficient displacement and/or hp numbers. I (think I) have proven it does not.

[ifcar]

For almost any engine, especially a V6 or above, you can find lots of cars with less power. Doesn't mean it's a good engine though. Take this example:

The Dodge Stratus 2.7-liter V6 has 200 horsepower. That's more hp and displacement than any number of other midsize 4-cylinder sedans. Does that make it a good engine?

We weren't discussing whether it was "good" or not, only whether it had insufficient displacement and/or hp numbers. I (think I) have proven it does not.

I was talking only about whether it was good or not, I showed you the post I was referring to. A 2.7-liter V6 and 185 horsepower is, as a V6 engine, lacking in displacement and horsepower, and certainly isn't anywhere near the top of its class unless it belies both its specs and the previous experience I've had with it in the XL-7.

Looking at it that way, it doesn't matter what its competitors' base-model 4-cylinders are. Judged as an engine, it should be compared against V6s. Only when it is judged as an piece of the automobile (I'm not judging it that way, and you said you aren't either), it should be judged against whatever engine the competing models put in comparable vehicles.  

[mazda6er]

Then apparently we are arguing different points. I agree with you that my statements do not make it true that the GV has a "good" engine. You were, however, incorrect in your assertion that the GV has "low power" and "rather low" displacement for this class. The fact that it is a V6 is irrelevant. Fair enough? :)

[ifcar]

I wasn't talking about for its class, unless you consider its class to be V6 small SUVs. As a V6, it is down on displacement and horsepower.  

[mazda6er]

I wasn't talking about for its class, unless you consider its class to be V6 small SUVs. As a V6, it is down on displacement and horsepower.

I consider its class to be small SUVs, no other restrictions. It is relatively unimpressive for a V6, yes, I have never denied that. But it is not underpowered for the small SUV class.

[ifcar]

But I was never talking about the class in general. Even the worst V6 can't be too underpowered in a class that includes so many 4-cylinder models.  

[Raghavan]

What's nice about this engine? Low power, rather low displacement.

But it's better than all the competitors except the new rav's engine and the forester XT.

Based on...

performance...

How do you figure? Consumer Guide estimated a 0-60 in the 9s, many competing models beat that.

First of all, that's an estimated time. Second, CR guys are wussies and get really slow numbers for their cars. I estimate it in the low 8's.

[mazda6er]

But I was never talking about the class in general. Even the worst V6 can't be too underpowered in a class that includes so many 4-cylinder models.

Alright buddy, I don't have the time or energy to continue this debate. You should really consider law school; people get payed big money to twist words there. I declare you the winner by IKFSIA (I Can't F*cking Stand It Anymore).    

[ifcar]

What's nice about this engine? Low power, rather low displacement.

But it's better than all the competitors except the new rav's engine and the forester XT.

Based on...

performance...

How do you figure? Consumer Guide estimated a 0-60 in the 9s, many competing models beat that.

First of all, that's an estimated time. Second, CR guys are wussies and get really slow numbers for their cars. I estimate it in the low 8's.

Consumer Guide and Consumer Reports are two unrelated publications. And below average is below average, if you're going to decrease their figures for one car, all the competitors' go down as well.

It's just not that impressive.  

[mazda6er]

What's nice about this engine? Low power, rather low displacement.

But it's better than all the competitors except the new rav's engine and the forester XT.

Based on...

performance...

How do you figure? Consumer Guide estimated a 0-60 in the 9s, many competing models beat that.

First of all, that's an estimated time. Second, CR guys are wussies and get really slow numbers for their cars. I estimate it in the low 8's.

Way to carry the torch Rag. Just make sure your arguments make sense.    

[ifcar]

But I was never talking about the class in general. Even the worst V6 can't be too underpowered in a class that includes so many 4-cylinder models.

Alright buddy, I don't have the time or energy to continue this debate. You should really consider law school; people get payed big money to twist words there. I declare you the winner by IKFSIA (I Can't F*cking Stand It Anymore).  

How did I twist your words? You jumped on a statement that I made to someone else in another context, and finally agreed that you were talking about something different than I was.

BTW, I did briefly consider law school, but the good jobs are hard to find and very stressful, and I really didn't feel like spending that much time in college.  

[mazda6er]

But I was never talking about the class in general. Even the worst V6 can't be too underpowered in a class that includes so many 4-cylinder models.

Alright buddy, I don't have the time or energy to continue this debate. You should really consider law school; people get payed big money to twist words there. I declare you the winner by IKFSIA (I Can't F*cking Stand It Anymore).  

How did I twist your words? You jumped on a statement that I made to someone else in another context, and finally agreed that you were talking about something different than I was.

BTW, I did briefly consider law school, but the good jobs are hard to find and very stressful, and I really didn't feel like spending that much time in college.

Speaking from experience man, you could've been a damn good lawyer. I'm out for today have a good one.  :) If I was opposing you I'd run out of the courtroom pulling my hair out and screaming.  :P  

[ifcar]

But I was never talking about the class in general. Even the worst V6 can't be too underpowered in a class that includes so many 4-cylinder models.

Alright buddy, I don't have the time or energy to continue this debate. You should really consider law school; people get payed big money to twist words there. I declare you the winner by IKFSIA (I Can't F*cking Stand It Anymore).  

How did I twist your words? You jumped on a statement that I made to someone else in another context, and finally agreed that you were talking about something different than I was.

BTW, I did briefly consider law school, but the good jobs are hard to find and very stressful, and I really didn't feel like spending that much time in college.

Speaking from experience man, you could've been a damn good lawyer. I'm out for today have a good one.  :) If I was opposing you I'd run out of the courtroom pulling my hair out and screaming.  :P

:D

In all seriousness though, having the most information is key to a successful argument. I have this much auto info because I find it interesting, I doubt I could be as enthralled by law.  

[Raghavan]

What's nice about this engine? Low power, rather low displacement.

But it's better than all the competitors except the new rav's engine and the forester XT.

Based on...

performance...

How do you figure? Consumer Guide estimated a 0-60 in the 9s, many competing models beat that.

First of all, that's an estimated time. Second, CR guys are wussies and get really slow numbers for their cars. I estimate it in the low 8's.

Consumer Guide and Consumer Reports are two unrelated publications. And below average is below average, if you're going to decrease their figures for one car, all the competitors' go down as well.

It's just not that impressive.

whoops. I thought you said CR.
There goes my whole argument... *backs out of thread slowly*