2006 Hummer H3: Baby Looks Big for Its Age

[ifcar]

Well, I wasn't trying to imply that.

A niche vehicle like the H3 is not designed to have the most rear seat space, the best fuel economy, or the most cargo capacity. That's what mainstream vehicles are designed for because they need to appeal to a broad number of people in the very heart of the market. The H3 is designed to appeal to, like you said, people who have always wanted a Hummer, the kind of people that will definitely buy one when the opportunity arises.

That DOES mean that the H3 will trail some of its closest competition in measureable areas of utility and performance, but then again I don't believe in proclaiming one vehicle a victor over another just by examining the spec sheets. That seems very Consumer Reports-ish to me, so I judge a vehicle by how it feels to me, by how the overall package feels when put to the test.

So yes, if you're a stats sheet kind of person, then the H3 is at somewhat of a disadvantage. But judging a vehicle in that manner seems borderline useless to me, so excuse me if I don't readily believe you when you tell me that there are better choices out there. I reserve the right to make a decision for myself after experiencing both vehicles first-hand.

I pretty much agree with you here. Personally, for under $30,000 I think it is priced right. It does have incredible off road ability and has a comfortable ride. Plus, it has the styling, which some will either love or hate. It looks like nothing else on the road. Nothing against IFCAR, but I think he misses the point. The Hummer may not do some things as well as other SUVs, but it does them competently enough, you get the off road ability and a suv that has distinctive styling. The only thing that Hummer should have is an optional engine with more power.

It's only under $30,000 without options. And I understand "the point" of the car, but as I've said, there just isn't anything great about the car short of the styling unless you take it off road. When you do, you're also looking at the much less-expensive and more powerful Xterra, which has everything but the Hummer look.

I just don't believe in giving a car extra kudos for either its styling or for abilities that virtually no one will use.  

[Raza]

I've seen about five of these things, and all with women driving.  But, they looked like the hardcore offroading types.

<_<  

[ifcar]

Every professional report I have read on the H3 has put it at the top of off-roading SUV's. The only thing better off-road is the Wrangler Rubicon but its still able to offer a very comfortable on-road ride. Outside of Land-Rover (which are generally pricier) I dont think any other SUV offers the mix of an H3. Don't get me wrong I don't think the H3 is the ideal SUV for someone that really needs a minivan, but for people that want the ability to go off-road just about anywhere (and still keep their vehicle stock) the H3 is a great choice.

The Xterra you guys refer to gets marginally better fuel economy (1 MPG in city and highway). I don't think that enough to say its better in every way than an H3. That's such a rediculous statement anyway.

Oh but wait, the H3 takes 8 1/2 seconds to go 0-60/ That's just too darn slow...

Who said it was better in every way? <_<

It's a generally similar vehicle with more space and power for close to $10,000 less. I'd say that makes it better overall, Hummer styling or not.

And I wouldn't disagree that the H3 could be a reasonable choice for someone who will actually use its abilities. I just doubt that most will.  

[SJ_GTI]

Who said it was better in every way? <_<

It's a generally similar vehicle with more space and power for close to $10,000 less. I'd say that makes it better overall, Hummer styling or not.

You said it was "better" without any qualification.

The H3 is a more luxorious car than the Xterra and its better off-road. The Xterra is faster and cheaper.

Well I decided to use a cmoparison from edmunds just to get an idea on a few things. I am comparing the H3, 4Runner SR5 (V6), Xterra, and Grand Cherokee (V6). All of them are 4WD.

The Xterra not surprisingly is the cheapest, but the H3 is actually the second cheapest. I actually used a V8 Grand Cherokee at first, but its base MSRP is above even a fully loaded H3 so its not comparable. (edit: I read this again and just to clarify I am referring to the V6 only in the previous Paragraph, I only mentioned the V8 here because I don't think people realize how expensive it is. A GC Hemi runs about 40k)

The H3 does get the worst gas mileage, but keep in mind we are talking a total difference of 2 MPG from best to worst, and actually the two middle SUV's are only 1 MPG better than the H3. I think for most consumers this is just about a draw. The 4runner surprisingly gets the best MPG.

The Xterra and 4Runner are both pretty quick, but the Jeep is just as "slow" as the H3. Th Xterra w/ 6MT would be the fastest.

Interior, even in base form, is a "win" for the H3. Its just the best looking, even with cloth seats (which I've actually seen in person). With the leather seats the H3 looks outstanding.

Interior room isn't as clear as you make it out to be. The H3 has the best headroom (front and back) and the second most legroom front and back, but loses on shoulder/hip room. Its a much better 4-seater than 5 seater. The 4Runner is the clear winner here since its actually a 7 seater (even though passengers 6+7 would probably be very uncomfortable), but after that its pretty close between the H3, Xterra, and Cherokee. Without pulling specs I doubt most people could even tell the difference.

Off-road the only real competitors are the Xterra and H3, and I think most professionals have stated the H3 is unmatched off-road and I wil take their opinion since I really don't know much about that.

While I understand that when you evaluate these SUV's as minivans the H3 doesn't look that good, but as SUV's that are mant to go off-road its looks very competitive in most areas and best in class in a couple. Do I think its the best SUV for everyone? Of course not, but its a great SUV and I think GM deserves Kudos for building the best "Hummer" since the original. Its true that if you don't need off-roading capability the H3 isn't a good choice...but there-in lies the critical thing about sales...most people don't buy cars they need, they buy cars they want. And for whatever reason people want SUV's that can go off-road even if they don't use it very often. If I needed something in this class I would most likely go for an Xterra (not a big fan of SUV's in the first place, so whatever let's me spend the least amount of money wins  :P ) but I can still see the good qualities of the H3. I also don't feel the need to make fun of people genitalia simply because they like a certain style of truck.

[Catman]

Seems to be a good debate brewing here Lets rumble!

[SJ_GTI]

Unless you're actually taking it off road, there's no point. And even if you are, a Grand Cherokee will do the same thing with more power and for less money.

Just thought I'd come back to this.

The GC 3.7 has less power standard and is more expensive standard.

According to Edmunds the MSRP on a 4WD GC Laredo is 29,135, MSRP on a H3 is 28,935. The GC comes with 210 HP and the H3 comes with 220.

[ifcar]

Who said it was better in every way? <_<

It's a generally similar vehicle with more space and power for close to $10,000 less. I'd say that makes it better overall, Hummer styling or not.

You said it was "better" without any qualification.

The H3 is a more luxorious car than the Xterra and its better off-road. The Xterra is faster and cheaper.

Well I decided to use a cmoparison from edmunds just to get an idea on a few things. I am comparing the H3, 4Runner SR5 (V6), Xterra, and Grand Cherokee (V6). All of them are 4WD.

The Xterra not surprisingly is the cheapest, but the H3 is actually the second cheapest. I actually used a V8 Grand Cherokee at first, but its base MSRP is above even a fully loaded H3 so its not comparable. (edit: I read this again and just to clarify I am referring to the V6 only in the previous Paragraph, I only mentioned the V8 here because I don't think people realize how expensive it is. A GC Hemi runs about 40k)

The H3 does get the worst gas mileage, but keep in mind we are talking a total difference of 2 MPG from best to worst, and actually the two middle SUV's are only 1 MPG better than the H3. I think for most consumers this is just about a draw. The 4runner surprisingly gets the best MPG.

The Xterra and 4Runner are both pretty quick, but the Jeep is just as "slow" as the H3. Th Xterra w/ 6MT would be the fastest.

Interior, even in base form, is a "win" for the H3. Its just the best looking, even with cloth seats (which I've actually seen in person). With the leather seats the H3 looks outstanding.

Interior room isn't as clear as you make it out to be. The H3 has the best headroom (front and back) and the second most legroom front and back, but loses on shoulder/hip room. Its a much better 4-seater than 5 seater. The 4Runner is the clear winner here since its actually a 7 seater (even though passengers 6+7 would probably be very uncomfortable), but after that its pretty close between the H3, Xterra, and Cherokee. Without pulling specs I doubt most people could even tell the difference.

Off-road the only real competitors are the Xterra and H3, and I think most professionals have stated the H3 is unmatched off-road and I wil take their opinion since I really don't know much about that.

While I understand that when you evaluate these SUV's as minivans the H3 doesn't look that good, but as SUV's that are mant to go off-road its looks very competitive in most areas and best in class in a couple. Do I think its the best SUV for everyone? Of course not, but its a great SUV and I think GM deserves Kudos for building the best "Hummer" since the original. Its true that if you don't need off-roading capability the H3 isn't a good choice...but there-in lies the critical thing about sales...most people don't buy cars they need, they buy cars they want. And for whatever reason people want SUV's that can go off-road even if they don't use it very often. If I needed something in this class I would most likely go for an Xterra (not a big fan of SUV's in the first place, so whatever let's me spend the least amount of money wins  :P ) but I can still see the good qualities of the H3. I also don't feel the need to make fun of people genitalia simply because they like a certain style of truck.

I definitely respect its blend of on and off-road behavior. But its off-road capability compromises other areas, making it a rather mediocre vehicle for anyone who won't use it.

Look at it this way:
As a smaller Hummer, it's not half bad. But the people who are actually buying the thing could easily find vehicles better for them.


And BTW, measurements will never tell the story of seat comfort. The H3's rear lacks leg and foot space with regard to how the human body is shaped in relation to the seats, no matter what the numbers say.

As to the Grand Cherokee, its MSRP is almost irrelevent. The H3 is going much closer to sticker than the GC.  

[SJ_GTI]

And BTW, measurements will never tell the story of seat comfort. The H3's rear lacks leg and foot space with regard to how the human body is shaped in relation to the seats, no matter what the numbers say.

As to the Grand Cherokee, its MSRP is almost irrelevent. The H3 is going much closer to sticker than the GC.

Admittedly I am only 5'10 ~175 lbs, but I fit in the back seat fine. Three of me might not be comfortable, but two of me would be perfectly happy back there.

As for sticker vs selling price...its the only relevant thing we can use. Anything else is too ambiguous and frankly too dependant on your negotiation skills. The fact that the H3 is selling closer to sticker just shows its demand is closer to its supply, nothing else.

[footoflead]

Seems to be a good debate brewing here Lets rumble!

   

[Catman]

Seems to be a good debate brewing here Lets rumble!

 

 

[Run Away]

I yelled "SMALL PENIS" at one the other day but it turned out to be a chick driving.

How very self-righteous of you. Congratulations.

Thank you.  

[ifcar]

And BTW, measurements will never tell the story of seat comfort. The H3's rear lacks leg and foot space with regard to how the human body is shaped in relation to the seats, no matter what the numbers say.

As to the Grand Cherokee, its MSRP is almost irrelevent. The H3 is going much closer to sticker than the GC.

Admittedly I am only 5'10 ~175 lbs, but I fit in the back seat fine. Three of me might not be comfortable, but two of me would be perfectly happy back there.

As for sticker vs selling price...its the only relevant thing we can use. Anything else is too ambiguous and frankly too dependant on your negotiation skills. The fact that the H3 is selling closer to sticker just shows its demand is closer to its supply, nothing else.

It shows that you can get the Grand Cherokee for less money. If you're buying, isn't that more important than the MSRP?

[SJ_GTI]

And BTW, measurements will never tell the story of seat comfort. The H3's rear lacks leg and foot space with regard to how the human body is shaped in relation to the seats, no matter what the numbers say.

As to the Grand Cherokee, its MSRP is almost irrelevent. The H3 is going much closer to sticker than the GC.

Admittedly I am only 5'10 ~175 lbs, but I fit in the back seat fine. Three of me might not be comfortable, but two of me would be perfectly happy back there.

As for sticker vs selling price...its the only relevant thing we can use. Anything else is too ambiguous and frankly too dependant on your negotiation skills. The fact that the H3 is selling closer to sticker just shows its demand is closer to its supply, nothing else.

It shows that you can get the Grand Cherokee for less money. If you're buying, isn't that more important than the MSRP?

Okay fine the GC is cheaper, you win.

[ifcar]

When I say that you can get a GC for less money, I mean only that. What is your point?

[SJ_GTI]

When I say that you can get a GC for less money, I mean only that. What is your point?

That the H3 offers more standard power at a lower standard price than the GC.

If you are more interested in negotiated prices congratulations. All you proved is that the H3 is more in demand than the GC. GM can't help it if no one wants to buy the GC at MSRP.    

[SJ_GTI]

You know between this thread and the HHR thread I have to say I really wonder about you Ifcar.

[ifcar]

When I say that you can get a GC for less money, I mean only that. What is your point?

That the H3 offers more standard power at a lower standard price than the GC.

If you are more interested in negotiated prices congratulations. All you proved is that the H3 is more in demand than the GC. GM can't help it if no one wants to buy the GC at MSRP.  

I'm neither GM nor DCX, I could care less WHY the Grand Cherokee sells for less money than the H3 despite a higher sticker. If I were buying the car, the Grand Cherokee would be less expensive.

It would be like criticizing the 2005 LeSabre for "costing" more than the Avalon because of its sticker price, MSRP just isn't related to anything in the real world.  

[SJ_GTI]

...MSRP just isn't related to anything in the real world...

Yet pretty much every magazine in the world uses it as a basis for comparisons. Guess you know more than them.

Anyway fine I cede the point, (due to higher demand the) H3 will cost more in the real world than a Grand Cherokee. GM sucks. Congrats.

[ifcar]

...MSRP just isn't related to anything in the real world...

Yet pretty much every magazine in the world uses it as a basis for comparisons. Guess you know more than them.

Anyway fine I cede the point, (due to higher demand the) H3 will cost more in the real world than a Grand Cherokee. GM sucks. Congrats.

I have often disagreed with the emphasis placed on MSRP in reviews, especially those that factor price into what is said. Oft-rebated models too often face unnecessary criticism, and are sometimes even called overpriced when they are truly the bargains of their class.

It has nothing to do with GM, it's just a simple fact that if you are buying a base Grand Cherokee you will pay less than you would a base H3.  

[ciciusss]

Well, I wasn't trying to imply that.

A niche vehicle like the H3 is not designed to have the most rear seat space, the best fuel economy, or the most cargo capacity. That's what mainstream vehicles are designed for because they need to appeal to a broad number of people in the very heart of the market. The H3 is designed to appeal to, like you said, people who have always wanted a Hummer, the kind of people that will definitely buy one when the opportunity arises.

That DOES mean that the H3 will trail some of its closest competition in measureable areas of utility and performance, but then again I don't believe in proclaiming one vehicle a victor over another just by examining the spec sheets. That seems very Consumer Reports-ish to me, so I judge a vehicle by how it feels to me, by how the overall package feels when put to the test.

So yes, if you're a stats sheet kind of person, then the H3 is at somewhat of a disadvantage. But judging a vehicle in that manner seems borderline useless to me, so excuse me if I don't readily believe you when you tell me that there are better choices out there. I reserve the right to make a decision for myself after experiencing both vehicles first-hand.

I pretty much agree with you here. Personally, for under $30,000 I think it is priced right. It does have incredible off road ability and has a comfortable ride. Plus, it has the styling, which some will either love or hate. It looks like nothing else on the road. Nothing against IFCAR, but I think he misses the point. The Hummer may not do some things as well as other SUVs, but it does them competently enough, you get the off road ability and a suv that has distinctive styling. The only thing that Hummer should have is an optional engine with more power.

It's only under $30,000 without options. And I understand "the point" of the car, but as I've said, there just isn't anything great about the car short of the styling unless you take it off road. When you do, you're also looking at the much less-expensive and more powerful Xterra, which has everything but the Hummer look.

I just don't believe in giving a car extra kudos for either its styling or for abilities that virtually no one will use.

You make the H3 out to be a SUV that is nearly a one trick pony: Great off road ability and Hummer styling if that is something you want. Like I said, there are other SUVs that perform better in other respects, but the H3 performs competently enough in most areas that it makes it a reasonable choice. The seating is comfortable, it has a good ride and for a heavy vehicle it handles pretty well. The back seat is reasonably comfortable, but talk about an area that is over rated in the ratings, it is here. How often, except for short trips do you see adults, placed in the back seat of a car/suv?

The interior is nice looking and the cargo area is roomy enough to handle what is typically hauled around: groceries, luggage, etc. It could use a little more power. As far as off road ability, while not denying the Xterra's abilities, the H3 is more capable. As for your comment about not giving kudos for abilities that virtually no one uses, well you also could make that comment about other areas of a vehicle's performance such as top end speed or the upper handling limits of a vehicle.

[ciciusss]

...MSRP just isn't related to anything in the real world...

Yet pretty much every magazine in the world uses it as a basis for comparisons. Guess you know more than them.

Anyway fine I cede the point, (due to higher demand the) H3 will cost more in the real world than a Grand Cherokee. GM sucks. Congrats.

I have often disagreed with the emphasis placed on MSRP in reviews, especially those that factor price into what is said. Oft-rebated models too often face unnecessary criticism, and are sometimes even called overpriced when they are truly the bargains of their class.

It has nothing to do with GM, it's just a simple fact that if you are buying a base Grand Cherokee you will pay less than you would a base H3.

But, yet you use the EPA's gas mileage figures in your vehicle evaluations which, have been shown to have a wide range of discrepancies between what is stated and what is actually found in real world driving.

[ifcar]

...MSRP just isn't related to anything in the real world...

Yet pretty much every magazine in the world uses it as a basis for comparisons. Guess you know more than them.

Anyway fine I cede the point, (due to higher demand the) H3 will cost more in the real world than a Grand Cherokee. GM sucks. Congrats.

I have often disagreed with the emphasis placed on MSRP in reviews, especially those that factor price into what is said. Oft-rebated models too often face unnecessary criticism, and are sometimes even called overpriced when they are truly the bargains of their class.

It has nothing to do with GM, it's just a simple fact that if you are buying a base Grand Cherokee you will pay less than you would a base H3.

But, yet you use the EPA's gas mileage figures in your vehicle evaluations which, have been shown to have a wide range of discrepancies between what is stated and what is actually found in real world driving.

Aside from hybrids, I've found them sufficient for simple comparison purposes, for seeing which vehicle gets better mileage than another. However, I will rarely quote the actual EPA figures.  

[ifcar]

Well, I wasn't trying to imply that.

A niche vehicle like the H3 is not designed to have the most rear seat space, the best fuel economy, or the most cargo capacity. That's what mainstream vehicles are designed for because they need to appeal to a broad number of people in the very heart of the market. The H3 is designed to appeal to, like you said, people who have always wanted a Hummer, the kind of people that will definitely buy one when the opportunity arises.

That DOES mean that the H3 will trail some of its closest competition in measureable areas of utility and performance, but then again I don't believe in proclaiming one vehicle a victor over another just by examining the spec sheets. That seems very Consumer Reports-ish to me, so I judge a vehicle by how it feels to me, by how the overall package feels when put to the test.

So yes, if you're a stats sheet kind of person, then the H3 is at somewhat of a disadvantage. But judging a vehicle in that manner seems borderline useless to me, so excuse me if I don't readily believe you when you tell me that there are better choices out there. I reserve the right to make a decision for myself after experiencing both vehicles first-hand.

I pretty much agree with you here. Personally, for under $30,000 I think it is priced right. It does have incredible off road ability and has a comfortable ride. Plus, it has the styling, which some will either love or hate. It looks like nothing else on the road. Nothing against IFCAR, but I think he misses the point. The Hummer may not do some things as well as other SUVs, but it does them competently enough, you get the off road ability and a suv that has distinctive styling. The only thing that Hummer should have is an optional engine with more power.

It's only under $30,000 without options. And I understand "the point" of the car, but as I've said, there just isn't anything great about the car short of the styling unless you take it off road. When you do, you're also looking at the much less-expensive and more powerful Xterra, which has everything but the Hummer look.

I just don't believe in giving a car extra kudos for either its styling or for abilities that virtually no one will use.

You make the H3 out to be a SUV that is nearly a one trick pony: Great off road ability and Hummer styling if that is something you want. Like I said, there are other SUVs that perform better in other respects, but the H3 performs competently enough in most areas that it makes it a reasonable choice. The seating is comfortable, it has a good ride and for a heavy vehicle it handles pretty well. The back seat is reasonably comfortable, but talk about an area that is over rated in the ratings, it is here. How often, except for short trips do you see adults, placed in the back seat of a car/suv?

The interior is nice looking and the cargo area is roomy enough to handle what is typically hauled around: groceries, luggage, etc. It could use a little more power. As far as off road ability, while not denying the Xterra's abilities, the H3 is more capable. As for your comment about not giving kudos for abilities that virtually no one uses, well you also could make that comment about other areas of a vehicle's performance such as top end speed or the upper handling limits of a vehicle.

I didn't mention the H3's upper handling limits or top speed for that reason.

And I recognize that the H3 is a decent vehicle in on-road conditions. However, as I've said, sacrifices to its on-road behavior were obviously necessary to improve its off-road capability. So except for people who will actually be taking it off road, a competitor focused almost exclusively on on-road behavior would be a better choice, as it wouldn't have those sacrifices. That's all I've been saying.

And while I've heard great things about the H3 off-road, I believe the Xterra has more aftermarket support for the hardcore group.  

[TBR]

I don't understand what the argument is here, ifcar has stated numerous times that the H3 is good offroad (though I don't believe it is any better than a Nismo Xterra) but it falls behind its competitors onroad which is where most of them will spend all of their time.

[giant_mtb]

Let's see...when was the last time I saw a dirty or mud covered Hummer?  Oh right, I never have seen a dirty Hummer.

[thewizard16]

Let's see...when was the last time I saw a dirty or mud covered Hummer?  Oh right, I never have seen a dirty Hummer.

I've never seen a dirty H2 or H3. The H2 drivers don't want to get their rims dirty... those 22's don't fare too well off road. (I live in Arkansas for God's sake, and most H2s here are "pimped".  <_< ) H1 is a different story. People willing to buy one of those generally can use one.

[TBR]

I have also seen a H1 that was used offroad, or at least appeared to have been used offroad. The sides were scratched up, but maybe he just tried to drive the needles highway which has some 9 ft wide tunnels . On a slightly different subject, the guy did a beautiful parking job, it was right in the middle of the space. Sure there was only 3 inches on each side, but still a very impressive feat considering the vehicle.

[thewizard16]

I have also seen a H1 that was used offroad, or at least appeared to have been used offroad. The sides were scratched up, but maybe he just tried to drive the needles highway which has some 9 ft wide tunnels . On a slightly different subject, the guy did a beautiful parking job, it was right in the middle of the space. Sure there was only 3 inches on each side, but still a very impressive feat considering the vehicle.

The needles highway is kinda scary unless you're driving a subcompact. I saw an RV that had gotten through one tunnel, and wouldn't fit through the one after.  :D  They had to back through the previous tunnel to a turn around spot. I felt sorry for them.

[Raghavan]

what is this needles highway?

[TBR]

South Dakota, I'm shocked that someone besides me knew what I was talking about.