Mazda RX-8 Canceled. Goodbye Rotary Engine?

[Atomic]

Mazda Halts Production of Rotary Engine Sports Car

The RX-8, shown (Automotive News Website), and the RX-7 that preceded it are largely responsible for Mazda's fun-to-drive reputation.

BY: Ryan Beene

Automotive News -- August 22, 2011 - 12:01 am ET

Mazda Motor Corp. has canceled production of its RX-8 rotary engine sports car, citing falling sales and stringent global emissions standards.

Production in Hiroshima, Japan, ended in early July and global sales of the car will conclude later this year.

The RX-8 and the three generations of the RX-7 that preceded it have long been the foundation the brand's fun-to-drive aura. The car's high-revving 1.3-liter, twin-rotor rotary engine produces 232 hp at 8,500 rpm -- a big punch in a relatively small package.

But Mazda sold just 1,134 RX-8s last year, a 49 percent decline from 2009. Sales through July of 2011 were down another 21 percent.

The RX-8, which has a base price of $27,590, including shipping, peaked at 23,690 sales in 2004. But the first-generation RX-7 surpassed 50,000 units throughout the early 1980s.

Mazda's U.S. dealers had 300 units in stock as of Aug. 1 for a 118-day supply, according to the Automotive News Data Center.

Mazda pulled the RX-8 from the European market last year after the car failed to meet local emissions standards. Without volume from Europe, Mazda couldn't justify selling the RX-8, a Mazda source said.

Exporting vehicles from Japan also has become more difficult. The yen's rise vs. the dollar was a major reason why Mazda's North American operating losses from April through June grew nearly threefold to ?7.9 billion, or about $97.6 million, from the same quarter last year.

This isn't the first time that Mazda has dropped its rotary engine sports car from the U.S. lineup. The RX-7 was pulled after the 1995 model year. A rotary-powered car didn't return to American showrooms until the 2003 introduction of the RX-8.

And the RX-8's demise may not be the end of the rotary engine at Mazda. A source says engineers in Hiroshima are still working on the next generation, 1.6-liter rotary engine, code-named 16X, that is said to have lower emissions, better fuel economy and more power.

When unveiled at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show, the 16X had an enlarged elliptical shape for the combustion chamber and an enlarged eccentric center stroke in the rotor. Mazda also planned direct-injection fuel delivery in a rotary engine for the first time.

But the 16X project has been on the back burner since the financial crisis. The company chose to focus its r&d resources on its fuel-saving SkyActiv technologies that debut later this year.

Still, Jim O'Sullivan, CEO of Mazda North American Operations, said "the rotary is alive and well within Mazda." While declining to comment on the progress of the 16X, O'Sullivan said: "We are studying what's the best way to come back to the market with the rotary."

[Onslaught]

Well this was going to be the last year of it anyway. With high gas prices and the fact that the car has been here from 2004 without any real changes don't help sales all that much. It's time for her to go and I hope they can bring another one back one day. You never know.

[sportyaccordy]

Good car, they just need to fix the engine for modern times.

[Raza]

Yeah, they should put that turbo motor from the old Mazdaspeed6 in it and call it the NRNX-8 (not rotary, not experimental). 

[3.0L V6]

If Mazda keeps losing money, I could see them cancelling the rotary, which would be a damn shame.

Mazda is one of the few automakers that dares color outside the lines with regards to engines and vehicles, which is wonderful for the enthusiast. Hopefully, they don't do a mid- to late-1990s redux, where they tried to compete by emulating Toyota, instead of doing something distinct.

[Onslaught]

I think it all depends on the SKY motors. If they turn out being what Mazda claims and do well I could see Mazda doing well. And then they can work on the 16X more. Mazda has made some big claims on the 16X already. They say it gets the MPG of the last mazda3 already. But they can't get the emissions down.

[Raza]

If Mazda keeps losing money, I could see them cancelling the rotary, which would be a damn shame.

Mazda is one of the few automakers that dares color outside the lines with regards to engines and vehicles, which is wonderful for the enthusiast. Hopefully, they don't do a mid- to late-1990s redux, where they tried to compete by emulating Toyota, instead of doing something distinct.

Yeah, it's a shame, in a way.  But like the death of BMW's inline 6, I can't understand why it really matters.  What did you have with a rotary?  An engine that's maintenance heavy, fuel drinking, oil consuming, not that powerful, and not that torquey.  Its main advantages were that it's light, compact, and powerful for its size comparable to a traditional engine.  It's a novelty, like Andre the Giant ice cream bars. 

[sportyaccordy]

Yeah, it's a shame, in a way.  But like the death of BMW's inline 6, I can't understand why it really matters.  What did you have with a rotary?  An engine that's maintenance heavy, fuel drinking, oil consuming, not that powerful, and not that torquey.  Its main advantages were that it's light, compact, and powerful for its size comparable to a traditional engine.  It's a novelty, like Andre the Giant ice cream bars. 

Again, the funneling of engine choices down to nothing but low emission turbocharged piston engines in everything from econoboxes to Paganis doesn't really jive with everybody. Just cause it works for you doesn't mean it should be so.

I agree that rotaries have a long way to go efficiency wise before they can really stand on their own.  But I don't think the solution is to just give up and go w/the Razamotor.

[Raza]

Again, the funneling of engine choices down to nothing but low emission turbocharged piston engines in everything from econoboxes to Paganis doesn't really jive with everybody. Just cause it works for you doesn't mean it should be so.

I agree that rotaries have a long way to go efficiency wise before they can really stand on their own.  But I don't think the solution is to just give up and go w/the Razamotor.

Yeah, it's nice to have novelties around, but in the end, they don't really matter.  A modern V6 is nearly as smooth as the old I6s from BMW and physically much smaller.  I see no advantage to sticking with inline engines.  Or rotary engines, for that matter.  Like I said, nice to have, but it really doesn't matter.

[3.0L V6]

Yeah, it's a shame, in a way.  But like the death of BMW's inline 6, I can't understand why it really matters.  What did you have with a rotary?  An engine that's maintenance heavy, fuel drinking, oil consuming, not that powerful, and not that torquey.  Its main advantages were that it's light, compact, and powerful for its size comparable to a traditional engine.  It's a novelty, like Andre the Giant ice cream bars. 

From a business and pragmatic standpoint, I agree with you 100%. It's mostly an emotional thing - it is probably the last custom designed engine that will be put in a car with a price of under $40k.

In a world where car design appears to be becoming more formulaic (corporate engine, chassis shared with high-volume models) the RX-8 and rotary were distinct outliers. I'd be shocked if Mazda made any money from it and understand that it runs the polar opposite to any business case for a car, but novelties are fun. Even more fun if I can hope to afford the novelty one day.

[ifcar]

Yeah, it's a shame, in a way.  But like the death of BMW's inline 6, I can't understand why it really matters.  What did you have with a rotary?  An engine that's maintenance heavy, fuel drinking, oil consuming, not that powerful, and not that torquey.  Its main advantages were that it's light, compact, and powerful for its size comparable to a traditional engine.  It's a novelty, like Andre the Giant ice cream bars. 

The lightness was a fundamental part of the RX-8's balance and handling, no? Drop another engine in there and it's not the same car.

[sportyaccordy]

Yeah, it's nice to have novelties around, but in the end, they don't really matter.  A modern V6 is nearly as smooth as the old I6s from BMW and physically much smaller.  I see no advantage to sticking with inline engines.  Or rotary engines, for that matter.  Like I said, nice to have, but it really doesn't matter.

Oh don't worry, in time you won't even have to worry about V6s either. You fill an inline 4's motor mounts with jelly & cover the engine block in sound dampener,  slap on a turbocharger, it'll feel just like a V6, and make little to no noise. Then you'll be able to choose the engine sound you want, etc. The future looks bright.

It does matter. Your line of thinking is what is pushing engines into a direction of depressing emissions driven homogeneity. I agree that the rotary needs a lot of work, but not everyone wants a turbo 4 banger.

[r0tor]

Not surprising at all...

Yeesh, the two smoothest engine designs (rotary and I6) both pretty much dies in the same year... Bad year for the auto biz

[SVT32V]

Oh don't worry, in time you won't even have to worry about V6s either. You fill an inline 4's motor mounts with jelly & cover the engine block in sound dampener,  slap on a turbocharger, it'll feel just like a V6, and make little to no noise. Then you'll be able to choose the engine sound you want, etc. The future looks bright.

It does matter. Your line of thinking is what is pushing engines into a direction of depressing emissions driven homogeneity. I agree that the rotary needs a lot of work, but not everyone wants a turbo 4 banger.

The upcoming draconian CAFE regulations is no doubt the real reason for the "ecoboost" trend.

[sportyaccordy]

The upcoming draconian CAFE regulations is no doubt the real reason for the "ecoboost" trend.

I know that. You know that. I don't know that a lot of people know that. People hear "turbo" and assume it's always for the better.

[Raza]

The lightness was a fundamental part of the RX-8's balance and handling, no? Drop another engine in there and it's not the same car.

True enough.  But it was fundamental to the RX-7 as well, and we know how that ended. 

[Raza]

Oh don't worry, in time you won't even have to worry about V6s either. You fill an inline 4's motor mounts with jelly & cover the engine block in sound dampener,  slap on a turbocharger, it'll feel just like a V6, and make little to no noise. Then you'll be able to choose the engine sound you want, etc. The future looks bright.

It does matter. Your line of thinking is what is pushing engines into a direction of depressing emissions driven homogeneity. I agree that the rotary needs a lot of work, but not everyone wants a turbo 4 banger.

You sound like one of those doomsday mongers.  Don't worry, the world will end in 2012, long before V6s are phased out. 

[Onslaught]

True enough.  But it was fundamental to the RX-7 as well, and we know how that ended. 

Well the RX-7 died here because it cost too much. The FB and fC sold well. I think if Mazda had put the 8 motor in a car more like the 7 then it would have done better.

[r0tor]

You sound like one of those doomsday mongers.  Don't worry, the world will end in 2012, long before V6s are phased out. 

V6s aren't much to write home about...

[MX793]

Yeah, they should put that turbo motor from the old Mazdaspeed6 in it and call it the NRNX-8 (not rotary, not experimental). 

MX-8

[Onslaught]

Everyone says they should put that 4 banger turbo motor in them. Why? So it can have heat soak problems? It can sound like crap? So it won't as smooth as a V6 or rotary?

No thanks.

[Atomic]

If Mazda keeps losing money, I could see them cancelling the rotary, which would be a damn shame.

Mazda is one of the few automakers that dares color outside the lines with regards to engines and vehicles, which is wonderful for the enthusiast. Hopefully, they don't do a mid- to late-1990s redux, where they tried to compete by emulating Toyota, instead of doing something distinct.

i seriously thought those rumors of a new "mazda rx-7" were a reality 

[FlatBlackCaddy]

It'll be back, as long as mazda is in business there will be someone within the company looking to carry on the RX line.

[Onslaught]

I don't know if most people know this or not, but Mazda wouldn't even be here anymore if it wasn't for the Rotary. It's one of the reasons they keep trying so hard.

[Raza]

I don't know if most people know this or not, but Mazda wouldn't even be here anymore if it wasn't for the Rotary. It's one of the reasons they keep trying so hard.

I'm sure the 5 RX-8s they sold a year really kept them afloat. 

[Onslaught]

I'm sure the 5 RX-8s they sold a year really kept them afloat. 

I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about a long time ago. I've got a book about it but don't have time to go into it all this late. Basically Japan was forcing some corporations to merge with others. And Mazda used the rotary as a way to get out of it. I'll post more about it later.
But the short story is without the rotary Mazda wouldn't even be here anymore.

[68_427]

Everyone says they should put that 4 banger turbo motor in them. Why? So it can have heat soak problems? It can sound like crap? So it won't as smooth as a V6 or rotary?

No thanks.

Actually I think Mazda's Turbo 2.3 sounds really good.  But it doesn't fit the RX's character.

[Raza]

I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about a long time ago. I've got a book about it but don't have time to go into it all this late. Basically Japan was forcing some corporations to merge with others. And Mazda used the rotary as a way to get out of it. I'll post more about it later.
But the short story is without the rotary Mazda wouldn't even be here anymore.

Oh, that's pretty cool then. 

[Atomic]

do any of you think mazda may be looking to go into partnership with another manufacturer now that ties have been severed with FMC? the possibilities are fun to speculate.

[r0tor]

Rumours are flying for Mazda and Audi to hook up on rotary engine development