2012 Hyundai Sonata GLS vs. 2012 Toyota Camry LE vs. 2012 Volkswagen Passat SE

[68_427]

Contenders
"Here are the sales numbers for the midsize segment through August," said associate editor Benson Kong as he handed associate editor Nate Martinez and me a sheet of 2011 data while the three of us were downing a quick breakfast in smoky Tehachapi, California, where wildfires had been running rampant for nearly a month. The Toyota Camry, the best-selling car for the last nine years, sat comfortably in first place with sales of almost 205,000 units.

2012 Hyundai Sonata GLS 2012 Toyota Camry LE And 2012 Volkswagen Passat SE Parked 2
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"Wow, even in the final year before a new model, the Camry still sells the best," observed Martinez. The Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion, Honda Accord, and Chevy Malibu occupied spots two through five, selling as high as 176,000 and as low as 160,000. At nearly 157,000 sold, the Hyundai Sonata occupied sixth spot, boasting a year-to-date sales bump of almost 22 percent, the strongest gain among any of the top six.

"Then, as you'll see, the Passat is way down in last," said Kong of Vee-Dub's entry, "with sales of only 1700." But he quickly added: "Although those were all 2010 model-year leftovers."




Normally the last-place finisher wouldn't be of any note, but in this case the Passat is different. Absent for 2011, Volkswagen's midsizer is all-new for 2012, bigger and roomier than ever before, and built for the first time in America, in a state-of-the-art plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee. VW has invested more than $1 billion in the Volunteer State, and thus has dreams of the Passat one day selling in the 300,000-per-year rate, which would help execute the German behemoth's plan to become the largest automaker in the world. VW will have to snatch that title from Toyota, which sold 8.42 million vehicles in 2010 to remain Big Daddy for the third year in a row. To stay on top, Toyota will need some help from its Kentucky-built Camry, which, like Passat, has been redesigned for 2012. Not so coincidentally, both of these fresh players come just one short year after Hyundai released the sixth-gen Sonata -- built in sweet home Alabama, except for the hybrid -- in all its "fluidic sculpture" glory. Let's just say Hyundai has angered its competitors and delighted its dealers.

2012 Hyundai Sonata GLS 2012 Toyota Camry LE And 2012 Volkswagen Passat SE Front View
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To see which of these bred-in-the-USA "imports" offers the best lineup of midsize magic, we gathered three examples of each -- that's right, nine in all -- and grouped one of every nameplate in the following categories: Mainstream (volume-sellers, gas engine), Fuel Economy (hybrids and diesel), and High Performance (turbo-fours and V-6s).

And what about the Altima, Fusion, Accord, and Malibu? Well, all are set to debut next-gen models in 2012-'13, so consider them invited to Round 2. Until then, enjoy these brand-new heavies duking it out in three family feuds.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2012_hyundai_sonata_gls_2012_toyota_camry_le_and_2012_volkswagen_passat_se_family_court/viewall.html#ixzz1b5gNCfoU

But where's the iPod/USB integration? Perhaps in the next few years VW will remedy that small oversight, and maybe even install a more inspiring engine. Until then, the Passat SE will just have to live with being almost perfect.

[SVT666]

It's a shame about the Sonata.  I kinda dig the styling, but the handling sounds like a deal breaker.

[2o6]

It's a shame about the Sonata.  I kinda dig the styling, but the handling sounds like a deal breaker.

I haven't driven a Sonata, but I have driven an Optima. It's fairly sporty, but with more steering feel (and a better manual transmission) it would be the bees knees.

[SVT666]

The Optima is the one I am more interested in because it looks so damn sexy.

[sportyaccordy]

The Sonata is competent but def needs a little more edge for me to take it seriously.

However I have doubts that anyone can create a sporty FWD sedan at that size anyway. I mean old Maximas were that big, and even with a lot of suspension work they were pretty boaty. The V6 Altimas were a little better, but they still felt ponderous compared to actual fun cars. I think the Sonata serves its purpose... not every car has to be thrilling.

[SVT666]

The Sonata is competent but def needs a little more edge for me to take it seriously.

However I have doubts that anyone can create a sporty FWD sedan at that size anyway. I mean old Maximas were that big, and even with a lot of suspension work they were pretty boaty. The V6 Altimas were a little better, but they still felt ponderous compared to actual fun cars. I think the Sonata serves its purpose... not every car has to be thrilling.

When it looks sporty, it better be sporty.  The Fusion Sport is legitimately sporty and it's a FWD sedan in the same size class.

[omicron]

Its [Passat] 39.1 inches of rear legroom betters the A8's 38.7

I shall never understand why the German full-size sedans are consistenly incapable of offering competitive legroom for their size. They're just not acceptable unless you fork out for the LWB variants.

[Galaxy]

Styling wise the Sonata has gone backwards.

[SVT666]

Styling wise the Sonata has gone backwards.

I disagree.  The styling of that Sonata was more vanilla than just about anything else on the road.  It drove like it too.  Every last thing about it screamed "booooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiinnnnnnngggggg".

[sportyaccordy]

When it looks sporty, it better be sporty.  The Fusion Sport is legitimately sporty and it's a FWD sedan in the same size class.

It looks no sportier than a CLS. As long as it's quick and comfortable it's doing it's job.

[SVT666]

It looks no sportier than a CLS. As long as it's quick and comfortable it's doing it's job.

The CLS looks sporty too.  The difference is, the CLS is sporty...at least in the 550 trim level.

[sportyaccordy]

Sportier than a Buick, yes, but to me "sporty" means "worthy of taking to a road course" which pretty much no car in this class even comes close to. These cars are built for the highway.

[CJ]

Sportier than a Buick, yes, but to me "sporty" means "worthy of taking to a road course" which pretty much no car in this class even comes close to. These cars are built for the highway.

...Which falls right in line with the buying public.  How many people go to a road course in their free time?  I'd be less than 1% of Americans.  Why cater to that small percentage?  There's no money to be had there. 

[SVT666]

Sportier than a Buick, yes, but to me "sporty" means "worthy of taking to a road course" which pretty much no car in this class even comes close to. These cars are built for the highway.

"Sporty" means you can take it to a road course?  Since when?

[sportyaccordy]

...Which falls right in line with the buying public.  How many people go to a road course in their free time?  I'd be less than 1% of Americans.  Why cater to that small percentage?  There's no money to be had there. 

That's my point. These cars are built to a purpose- getting people from point A to B. I've driven a few new midsizers and while some were more fun than others, compared to even a non-Si 5MT Civic coupe these cars are all pretty dull. The people looking for these cars don't give a shit about feedback or w/e, they want comfort + ease of use. From my experience w/the Sonata it does that fine. If I were looking for fun, I wouldn't be looking at FWD sedans the sizes of Crown Victorias.

[Cookie Monster]

Sportier than a Buick, yes, but to me "sporty" means "worthy of taking to a road course" which pretty much no car in this class even comes close to. These cars are built for the highway.

Dude, even if people don't do anything with the "sportiness", it doesn't mean they want something that looks like a bland turd. For many people, looking sporty is good enough no matter what it drives like.

[GoCougs]

Best acceleration, best brakes, best MPG and best "usability" (M/T's term). The Camry wins this IMO but Toyota has taken a major gamble by not replacing the Camry. The Fusion, Malibu, Accord, and Altima are set to replaced within a year and AFAIK they'll all be all-new cars unlike the Camry.

[thewizard16]

Best acceleration, best brakes, best MPG and best "usability" (M/T's term). The Camry wins this IMO but Toyota has taken a major gamble by not replacing the Camry. The Fusion, Malibu, Accord, and Altima are set to replaced within a year and AFAIK they'll all be all-new cars unlike the Camry.

They spoke more highly of the "new" Camry than I'd have expected, which at least gives me some optimism for the car since the last generation was pretty disappointing (IMO). I was pleased to hear they thought the interior had improved, that was one of the biggest concerns I had about this new-ish model. The decision to only make marginal exterior and mechanical changes for the '12 Camry is one I don't quite understand, but if they're planning on a more serious mid-cycle upgrade than normal maybe it will work out well for them.

[sportyaccordy]

Best acceleration, best brakes, best MPG and best "usability" (M/T's term). The Camry wins this IMO but Toyota has taken a major gamble by not replacing the Camry. The Fusion, Malibu, Accord, and Altima are set to replaced within a year and AFAIK they'll all be all-new cars unlike the Camry.

Toyota has nothing to fear. The brand loyalty alone will keep the Camry trucking sales wise. I loathe the Camry driving experience, but if it's what Americans want and Toyota doesn't have to reinvent the wheel to keep it going more power to them. Same with Honda. Hyundai + Ford etc. had to completely revamp their offerings because they were initially crap. Now they are OK. W/some tweaking they can specialize in the markets untouched by Toyota/Honda. Plus they appeal to different people. Toyotas are like Buicks/Oldsmobile used to be in my eyes, imagewise. They are cars for old people. I'd rather something like a Kia or Ford. It's shit like that the other brands should focus on capitalizing on (and that Toyota is realizing I think).

[ifcar]

Best acceleration, best brakes, best MPG and best "usability" (M/T's term). The Camry wins this IMO but Toyota has taken a major gamble by not replacing the Camry. The Fusion, Malibu, Accord, and Altima are set to replaced within a year and AFAIK they'll all be all-new cars unlike the Camry.

If it doesn't take an all-new product to provide the Camry experience, why not just update the existing product? The only people who will know the underpinnings' age are the critics, not the drivers.

[CJ]

I drove the 2012 Camry yesterday and came away...underwhelmed.  The ride is a little firmer, but still pretty soft.  The new electric power steering is definitely strange and not executed particularly well.  It was pretty hard to keep it going in a straight line, if I'm honest.  The interior is a massive improvement.  And the engine is a bit unrefined.

[Madman]

Styling wise the Sonata has gone backwards.

I agree.  The old Sonata had quite a bit of Audi-like classiness about it.  The new one looks like it's just trying too hard and the styling has already gone stale.  That's the problem with "bold" designs such as this.  They just don't age very well.  Kia's version (the Optima) is the better looking car.

[Vinsanity]

I drove the 2012 Camry yesterday and came away...underwhelmed.  The ride is a little firmer, but still pretty soft.  The new electric power steering is definitely strange and not executed particularly well.  It was pretty hard to keep it going in a straight line, if I'm honest.  The interior is a massive improvement.  And the engine is a bit unrefined.

How does it compare to the '07? The biggest complaints I had with the one I drove were 1. the engine/power and 2. the steering. They addressed the engine a few years ago with a power bump, and the review made it appear that the steering was improved, but I felt the same way about the '07 that you did about the '12.

[ifcar]

I drove the 2012 Camry yesterday and came away...underwhelmed.  The ride is a little firmer, but still pretty soft.  The new electric power steering is definitely strange and not executed particularly well.  It was pretty hard to keep it going in a straight line, if I'm honest.  The interior is a massive improvement.  And the engine is a bit unrefined.

I sat in one (but didn't drive it) today. The interior wasn't perfect, but it was still well done and one of the better ones in the class. I sat in fairly stripped-down LE and SE models. And still lots of space and good visibility.

[68_427]

I a black SE today and it looked really cool from the front.  The headlights were blueish/purple.

[GoCougs]

If it doesn't take an all-new product to provide the Camry experience, why not just update the existing product? The only people who will know the underpinnings' age are the critics, not the drivers.

Because progress can't always be made in small snippets. What if the all-new Fusion, Malibu, and Accord are actually all-new cars; a bit better economy, a bit more room, a bit more modern design? Toyota will then by definition be a full model cycle behind.

I point to the "all new" Civic. It has lost market share precisely because it is nothing other than an update facing off against the all-new Cruze, Focus, etc., and losing badly.

[ifcar]

You're depending on the decidedly wrong assumption that if it's newer it's automatically better. Don't look at the age of the components -- look at the car. If and only if there is something lacking in the car that an actual driver would notice is there a problem, be it in a brand-new model or one that is just aging well.

[GoCougs]

You're depending on the decidedly wrong assumption that if it's newer it's automatically better. Don't look at the age of the components -- look at the car. If and only if there is something lacking in the car that an actual driver would notice is there a problem, be it in a brand-new model or one that is just aging well.

For ~30+ years both the Camry and Accord have been on 5-year model cycles. Each all-new model afforded the automaker to make moderate to major changes as responses to the market and competition; good strategy when Detroit was riding 10+ years on the same platform. However, after a time, the Japanese started making headway owing to their vastly shortly model cycles. Their cars were getting better faster simply because they got a reboot so often. And then, come the '90s, and oops, what happened?

An all-new chassis/platform offers the opportunity to address the design from head to toe: chassis stiffness, NVH, interior space, industrial design, safety, efficiency, etc. This is a hyper competitive class and competition isn't about matching what others are doing but being out in front as the '07 Camry was. The '13 Malibu, the '13  Accord, maybe even the '13 Fusion, AFAIK, are all clean-sheet designs. Also let's not forget recent clean-sheet designs such as the Passat and Sonata (the later selling like hotcakes).

Toyota and Honda are making the same mistakes Detroit did in the '80s and '90s WRT brand management. The Tundra, Sequoia, RDX, Ridgeline, Pilot, FJ-Cruiser, GX, etc., have sucked precious $$ away from the Camries and Civics and now Toyota and Honda are on the precipice of paying a stiff price. It will take many years to right the ship should my prediction come true. As a harbinger, Chevy has come and gone with a Malibu ('08 - '12) and here's the Camry soldering on. Never thought I'd see that.

[ifcar]

So by making a new design, you get more space? The Camry is already one of the roomiest cars in its class. Unless they messed it up, it's the best-riding car in its class. And I'd be surprised if it didn't get strong safety ratings.

Don't look at the age of the platform. Look at the results. If a car has solid interior space, NVH, fuel efficiency, safety, etc., that just makes it a good product. If it doesn't, it's not. Ignore the age and focus on the merits.

[GoCougs]

So by making a new design, you get more space? The Camry is already one of the roomiest cars in its class. Unless they messed it up, it's the best-riding car in its class. And I'd be surprised if it didn't get strong safety ratings.

Don't look at the age of the platform. Look at the results. If a car has solid interior space, NVH, fuel efficiency, safety, etc., that just makes it a good product. If it doesn't, it's not. Ignore the age and focus on the merits.

Your "good enough" premise is a slippery slope. When does "good enough" translate into uncompetitiveness? All of that could have been said of the 2006 Camry too. What if Toyota had stuck with a warmed over model for 2007? It would have gotten killed by, if not been simply inferior, to virtually all of the players that have debuted since - '08 Accord, '08 Malibu, '10 Legacy, '11 Sonata, etc.

To be competitive one has to look at where the competition is going to be not where it currently is ("focus on merits"). Sure there are updates to MPG, power train, interior appointments, and some other things, but is that enough to hold-off a much more stylish Sonata, a much larger Passat, a more performance-oriented Accord (guessing that for '13), a twice-newer Malibu in '13? My hunch is, based on the success of the Cruze and Jetta, no, it's probably not going to be enough.