Steering Feel

[2o6]

I can't tell whether I'm right or not, but how come seemingly all new cars seem to be lacking in the steering feel department? Seemingly every car I have driven (new) I end up walking away because of the lack of feedback and weight of the steering wheel.



IMO, my Focus hits the nail on the head (for a mainstream car) in regards to steering feel, heaviness, and ease of use. The only other cars I have come off impressed with is maybe the new Fiesta.




Maybe I'm just too picky. That's a large reason why new cars just seem to turn me off nowadays.

[Payman]

Electric power steering. My G5 has it, and it sucks.

[Onslaught]

Electric power steering. My G5 has it, and it sucks.

Yea, I'm not a fan. People jerk their wants off about the steering in the RX-8. And while it's better then most modern cars I'm still not in love with the electric steering part. I don't see how it's better in any way at all.

[hotrodalex]

We're regressing back to the 60's, it seems.

[ifcar]

One of the first cars I drove was a first-generation Focus -- my father's 2005 ZX3 -- and I have the same feeling that so many newer cars feel lacking because of that. The Mazda2 and Honda CR-Z are two cars that come to mind as still feeling great, but those old Focuses set the bar high.

[93JC]

It's all relative. Compared to a Porsche 944 with manual steering, sure, everything's pretty damn light. Compared to a '75 Oldsmobile, any '75 Oldsmobile, new cars have noticeably heavier steering.

Still, a lack of feel doesn't necessarily mean a lack of feedback or a feeling of being imprecise. My car's steering is pretty light I think, in the grand scheme of things, but there's still plenty of feedback. Then I think back to the Volvo C30 (pretty much the same suspension & steering geometry; different power steering system) and how much lighter its steering felt. It felt similarly precise, it just took a lot less effort.

Part of it can probably be blamed on electric assist systems. The Pontiac G5/Chevy Cobalt sticks out to me as the worst steering of any modern car I've driven. It was light and it offered no feedback. Keeping it in a lane was difficult at 50+ mph.

Conversely my old Dodge Spirit had very heavy steering but didn't offer a lot of (positive) feedback. (It bump-steered pretty badly, and torque-steered too.) Going around a corner in that thing didn't produce a feedback in the steering wheel: you just turned the wheel and hoped you had picked the right amount of input.

[Onslaught]

When I fix up the Miata in a year or so I'm taking the power steering out.

[MX793]

Yea, I'm not a fan. People jerk their wants off about the steering in the RX-8. And while it's better then most modern cars I'm still not in love with the electric steering part. I don't see how it's better in any way at all.

RX-8s are electro-hydraulic, not pure electric.  The only part of that system that's electric is the hydraulic pump, the actual assist is hydraulic.  I loved the steering in the RX-8.  I also like the steering in my 3 (also electro-hydraulic).  Very direct and you generally have a pretty good idea of what's going on at the front wheels.  The Mustang's fully electric setup is pretty numb in comparison.

[SVT666]

Anything I've driven feels pretty numb compared to my SVTF.  The 2011 Dodge Charger R/T has pretty nice feel though.

[Colin]

Yes, you are right, increasing numbers of cars have steering so light that I could swear that the wheel is connected to a bowl of fresh air. I ahve to assume that the mfrs assume that this is what customers want........... and probably a lot do.

I do not!

Worst culprit of recent times for me was the 2009 Toyota Sienna, which was truly devoid of any sensation. But there have plenty more - the Aufdi A3 Sportback was pretty bad too.

The Mk 1 Focus was indeed a benchmark for Goodness in this respect, and the Euro Mark 2 was nearly as good........ thank Richard Parry Jones for that. Sadly the latest Fiesta, whilst good, is no longer great in this respect.

My Abarth is pretty good in this respect......... perfectly weighted and lots of fee. It is one reason the car is such fun - though of course there are plenty more!

[cawimmer430]

I don't have this problem. The steering feel on my BMW is very nicely weighted and direct as well as very responsive. Typical BMW I guess you could say. It's enjoyable when I am driving a bit sporty but since I usually have a lot of my equipment in the car, I rarely drive sporty!

The steering feel on our new E-Class is also very direct and precise and similar to that of the BMW. It's got the AMG sport package to, so maybe that helps.

The 500SL is very vague and lifeless on the other hand.

[Byteme]

RX-8s are electro-hydraulic, not pure electric.  The only part of that system that's electric is the hydraulic pump, the actual assist is hydraulic.  I loved the steering in the RX-8.  I also like the steering in my 3 (also electro-hydraulic).  Very direct and you generally have a pretty good idea of what's going on at the front wheels.  The Mustang's fully electric setup is pretty numb in comparison.

Same in our Mazda 3, and I assume in our Mazda 6, both of which have pretty good steering feel.  Our Miata has good feel as well. 

The 1968 Fiat 124 Spider I owned had very good steering feel, the 78, not so much.

Steering feel in the E-type was good, but not exceptional.

[Raza]

The Mercedes was terrible, the Passat was great, the Boxster was amazing, and the Jetta is good (though you can tell that it feels more artificial than the Passat's). 

[sportyaccordy]

I know it will sound nuts, but my 1st + 2nd Accords had absolutely divine steering. I mean I remember nuances of various curves and off ramps through the feel I got through those wheels. They were hardly stock. But stock same year Preludes were pretty much as good.

I recently drove an older 650i... the steering felt secure, but I don't know that it was full of feel. There was no slack in it, and it had nice weight to it, which was nice. But as far as feedback, I wasn't particularly blown away.

Generally, I think a lighter nose + less assist is the way to go. I am just going to stick to older + smaller cars.

[Vinsanity]

The most direct/useful/meaningful comparison I can make is my car compared to the newer CTS, and my first impression was that the newer model actually had artificially heavy steering. It could be the age difference, though, because when I got back into my car, it didn't feel nearly as tight as I had become accustomed to in the loaner car; it definitely felt 7 years older. I felt the same difference between the original G35 and a newer G37.

In comparison, the steering on my sister's 2005 Corolla actually feels tighter, heavier, and more communicative than the current-model Corolla.

[thewizard16]

In comparison, the steering on my sister's 2005 Corolla actually feels tighter, heavier, and more communicative than the current-model Corolla.

I agree. The older Corolla's steering, although not special in any discernible way, felt more "solid" than the current model.

As far as feel, the only vehicles I've spent more than a few weeks driving are at one end of the spectrum or the other it seems. Suburbans used to have very heavy, very solid (but not terribly cooperative at times) steering, and the Camries have always been very light, although the feel has changed from generation to generation. The 2000 model Camry was my favorite of the last few generations of Camry for driving in general (steering included), but it was still pretty light overall. Some new cars do feel totally disconnected and it takes a little getting used to, but it doesn't particularly bug me. I prefer something that feels like it's moving the wheels, but I also know that in a lot of future cars it will not be connected to the wheels in a mechanical way, so it's all going to be a sensory illusion anyway. I don't drive cars where it matters as much as many of you guys though (who's going to care if a Camry's steering doesn't feel as responsive as it used to? ), so my opinion on this matter is pretty worthless.

[2o6]

There is always a physical connection to the wheels. That's dangerous if there weren't one.

[NomisR]

Best steering feel out of all the newer cars out there i've driven is probably my Lotus.  There's probably no more direct steering than that.

My RSX's steering feel is probably better than that of my old Rx8.  In comparison, when going from the RSX to the Rx8, it feels like i'm driving a truck because of how big the steering wheel is.  And it feels  way too light in comparison to the RSX. 

The RDX's steering feel seems decent as do majority of the Honda lineups compared to most new cars today.

I've felt majority of Toyota mainstreamers and Lexus to be way too devoid of feel.  They seem to be an extreme in that regards like the old Cadillacs and Buicks. 

[thewizard16]

There is always a physical connection to the wheels. That's dangerous if there weren't one.

I said mechanical, not physical. Drive by wire involves no direct mechanical connection. Wires connecting the various electrical components would be your "physical" connection then.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Miata
Focus

[r0tor]

Spend some time on jeep forums and you will find people who have brought their JGC back to the dealer bacause the steering has feel to it....

... Typical American buyers are idiots...

[Onslaught]

Miata
Focus

I've always thought the PWR Steering in the Miata was a little too much if you ask me.

[Soup DeVille]

I said mechanical, not physical. Drive by wire involves no direct mechanical connection. Wires connecting the various electrical components would be your "physical" connection then.

Pure drive-by-wire is at this time frowned upon by the DOT.

[Soup DeVille]

Best steering feel out of all the newer cars out there i've driven is probably my Lotus.  There's probably no more direct steering than that.

Absolutely true, at least when comparing relatively modern cars.

Very little comes close to an Elise in this department. Even the S2000 felt relatively numb.

[CJ]

I agree. The older Corolla's steering, although not special in any discernible way, felt more "solid" than the current model.

As far as feel, the only vehicles I've spent more than a few weeks driving are at one end of the spectrum or the other it seems. Suburbans used to have very heavy, very solid (but not terribly cooperative at times) steering, and the Camries have always been very light, although the feel has changed from generation to generation. The 2000 model Camry was my favorite of the last few generations of Camry for driving in general (steering included), but it was still pretty light overall. Some new cars do feel totally disconnected and it takes a little getting used to, but it doesn't particularly bug me. I prefer something that feels like it's moving the wheels, but I also know that in a lot of future cars it will not be connected to the wheels in a mechanical way, so it's all going to be a sensory illusion anyway. I don't drive cars where it matters as much as many of you guys though (who's going to care if a Camry's steering doesn't feel as responsive as it used to? ), so my opinion on this matter is pretty worthless.

I agree about the 2000 Camry steering.  For what it is, our Camry has pretty good steering.  Direct, precise, and a little bit of feel. 

[2o6]

I said mechanical, not physical. Drive by wire involves no direct mechanical connection. Wires connecting the various electrical components would be your "physical" connection then.

Yet again, that is dangerous. No production car uses this setup.

Pure drive-by-wire is at this time frowned upon by the DOT.

Imagine if it failed at freeway speeds.

[GoCougs]

FWIW, modern airliners operate by wire - one of the chief reasons why is it is more reliable than mechanical connections.

[Soup DeVille]

FWIW, modern airliners operate by wire - one of the chief reasons why is it is more reliable than mechanical connections.

The sort of maintenance and the quality checks on that maintenance for cars is far different than what happens in the commercial airliner industry.

Also, a direct mechanical connection from the yoke to the control surfaces of a large airliner would be unaffective anyways. The wires in this case replaced pure hydraulic systems, not mechanical ones with hydraulic assistance.

[thewizard16]

Pure drive-by-wire is at this time frowned upon by the DOT.

It's the logical progression of things though. The image issue (which I think is mostly unwarranted) won't last forever.

Yet again, that is dangerous. No production car uses this setup.

Imagine if it failed at freeway speeds.

No, it isn't. What exactly are your opinions founded on, anyway?  (And I am not trying to be insulting, simply pointing out you have no facts/evidence to support this claim, despite stating it as fact.) The thought that mechanical is somehow superior to electronic is a little silly, in my opinion. It's no more dangerous than if your steering column or brake pedal linkage, etc. failed at freeway speeds, and there's no real reason to believe it's more likely. If the systems aren't connected to anything where the software could be "hacked" and the hardware is designed to be similarly difficult to damage as current mechanical systems, there are some huge advantages from a weight/cost/maintenance perspective.  As cougs pointed out, airplanes use the same basic thing with a lot higher stakes (but as soup said, of course get more frequent inspections than a regular car). And there are production vehicles getting close to drive by wire, it's really only a matter of time. As it becomes more common, maintenance schedules/checkups will change to monitor the systems and make sure they're still working properly just as it currently does with a mostly mechanical system.

[Soup DeVille]

Airpane systems are not only well maintained and inspected, but double and triple redundant. The cost to duplicate such systems in a car would be restrictive to say the least.

But, the big question is: wher is the inherent advantage? I honestly don't see one.