Subaru BRZ concept

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Hey now, the K20Z is good for like 30HP with just a reflash. But it does have DOHC i-VTEC.

I don't see what the big deal is with HP. How often are you able to tap into all the horsepower your Z06 has? You are probably more able to make use of its low end torque. Shit even on my bike I rarely tap into all its power (though admittedly I do get pretty close pretty often). Obv this thing won't be a tree stump puller but if its motor is responsive at all revs it should be fine. The Miata doesn't need 200000 HP to be fun. The AE86 damn sure didn't need much HP to be fun. The OG M3 (which this is very close to in spec) didn't need much HP to be fun. I for one am glad this thing is moving away from the mindless dick swinging trend. Sometimes less is more.

I don't own a Z06, wish I did. As for your other statement I like a well rounded car. It just so happens that with fantastic brakes and handling Ii want power, and I'll take(and use) all I can get. I, personally, regularly use all the power my cars have(all 450HP in my Z and every ounce of the stock EVO's output). Maybe it's where I live, or that I'm out driving to do one thing. Enjoy the hell out of it. With that in mind my nissan has adequate power right now, there are a few things I'd put bucks in before I'd further modify the motor. However I do find myself wanting a few more ponies on certain roads and the EVO has grip and brakes that far exceed its current power output. With another 100HP I'll be VERY happy with that car. All that said my next purchase is likely to be a 30 year old italian roadster.  I have no problem enjoying a slower car with less power, I enjoy both ends of the spectrum.

[S204STi]

Agree with the disconnected feeling with the 350Z.  Always felt to me less exciting than its numbers would suggest.

[r0tor]

Spec sheet here.... http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2096


Just for sporty, it makes less torque and at a higher rpm then a pathetic rotary engine

[Vinsanity]

more importantly...are they really sticking with these stupid alphabet soup names?

[Payman]

When they say base price of 28k, are they meaning the "customizer" stripped model, with no a/c or stereo, and unpainted bumpers?

[2o6]

When they say base price of 28k, are they meaning the "customizer" stripped model, with no a/c or stereo, and unpainted bumpers?

I hope not, because that's a terrible deal.

[sportyaccordy]

Spec sheet here.... http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2096


Just for sporty, it makes less torque and at a higher rpm then a pathetic rotary engine

Yea but it weighs 300lb less, and prob will do better than 15 MPG combined

[Payman]

Why do automakers build a terrific car, and saddle it with mediocre power? GTI, Miata, RX8, now this.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Why do automakers build a terrific car, and saddle it with mediocre power? GTI, Miata, RX8, now this.

Because for the masses they have adequate power. The GTi and Miata were targeted for mass consuption, mazda just F'd up the RX8(still love it)

[Rupert]

More power = more money

[Onslaught]

Why do automakers build a terrific car, and saddle it with mediocre power? GTI, Miata, RX8, now this.

All these cars have enough power to have fun in. And way more then you'll need on a road. There has never once been a time that I though "fuck, if only I had a little more HP I could've done it"

[S204STi]

Also, fuel economy.  Hate to say it but with the existing flat-four turbo that Subaru has this wouldn't get 30+mpg and still be driveable.

[Vinsanity]

All these cars have enough power to have fun in. And way more then you'll need on a road. There has never once been a time that I though "fuck, if only I had a little more HP I could've done it"

There have been plenty of times that I couldn't squeeze through a gap to overtake traffic in my old NA Miata because of the lack of hp. Just today, I was able to shoot in front of a 65 mph Tahoe to overtake a 55 mph Prius, and I was able to pull it off because of the hp and tq available to me. I'm sure that this car, the new Miata, and the GTI would be able to perform that maneuver even more easily, though, but my point is that having more power readily available makes these types of situations easier to handle.

[Rupert]

I've never had a high horsepower car, and I just don't have those kinds of "problems."

[Cookie Monster]

There have been plenty of times that I couldn't squeeze through a gap to overtake traffic in my old NA Miata because of the lack of hp. Just today, I was able to shoot in front of a 65 mph Tahoe to overtake a 55 mph Prius, and I was able to pull it off because of the hp and tq available to me. I'm sure that this car, the new Miata, and the GTI would be able to perform that maneuver even more easily, though, but my point is that having more power readily available makes these types of situations easier to handle.

Or, you could just wait and not shoot the gap...

[CALL_911]

Why do automakers build a terrific car, and saddle it with mediocre power? GTI, Miata, RX8, now this.

Eh, I've never yearned for power.

[SVT666]

I have always yearned for more power.

[Onslaught]

There have been plenty of times that I couldn't squeeze through a gap to overtake traffic in my old NA Miata because of the lack of hp. Just today, I was able to shoot in front of a 65 mph Tahoe to overtake a 55 mph Prius, and I was able to pull it off because of the hp and tq available to me. I'm sure that this car, the new Miata, and the GTI would be able to perform that maneuver even more easily, though, but my point is that having more power readily available makes these types of situations easier to handle.

The NA is 20+ years old. When it was new it wasn't fast but it was fine for it's time. The NC has all the power it needs for modern times.

Power is nice and I'll be honest and admit that I wish the RX-8 had about 300 hp. But I can have all the fun you should ever have on the road with what it has now.
Handeling and feel are more important than power to me.

[Raza]

Why do automakers build a terrific car, and saddle it with mediocre power? GTI, Miata, RX8, now this.

The only one of those cars that is slightly "underpowered" is the RX8 and that's only in the context of its competition (and even then, not really, because the old TT had 225bhp and that was a mid 6s car).  

My Jetta is the same as a GTI and every now and then I think 10 or 20 extra would be nice, but even so, my car is faster than 80-90% of cars out there and has more than enough power on tap (for its weight) to do about anything I need.  And you're talking to someone who lives on a highway, so I merge in and out of high speed traffic, zip through lane changes, et al, every single day.

[sportyaccordy]

Why do automakers build a terrific car, and saddle it with mediocre power? GTI, Miata, RX8, now this.

Power isn't everything. Would rather have a "slow" balanced car than something like a 350Z (no offense to anyone with one)

Plus a lot of time you can't even fully exploit the power. Being able to stomp the pedal and not engage warp drive on public streets is kind of a good thing.

[Tave]

You don't have to floor a car to make use of its power. A high power car will be more effortless and eager at every point in the rev range compared to a low power car. So you can enjoy the benefits of power even at part throttle.

[Rich]

You don't have to floor a car to make use of its power. A high power car will be more effortless and eager at every point in the rev range compared to a low power car. So you can enjoy the benefits of power even at part throttle.

Banging off full throttle shifts are fun

I can do it all the time in the Miata... not so much in the Mustang

[Cookie Monster]

Banging off full throttle shifts are fun

I can do it all the time in the Miata... not so much in the Mustang

+1

[Tave]

Banging off full throttle shifts are fun

Meh

[Raza]

You don't have to floor a car to make use of its power. A high power car will be more effortless and eager at every point in the rev range compared to a low power car. So you can enjoy the benefits of power even at part throttle.

Automatic transmissions are also effortless.   

[Vinsanity]

Meh

I agree. I hate the feeling where you bury the gas pedal, only to have yourself think, "is that all the car's got?" Fortunately, I've never had that problem with any car with 200+ hp.

Automatic transmissions are also effortless.   

Is that a bad thing?

[sportyaccordy]

You don't have to floor a car to make use of its power. A high power car will be more effortless and eager at every point in the rev range compared to a low power car. So you can enjoy the benefits of power even at part throttle.

Effortless is nice in a luxury car. For a sports car, obv it should be able to get out of its own way, but there should also be some element of "work". IMO anyway.

[S204STi]

I predict this car to be very boring.  Give it a turbo and things will get more interesting.  Sadly Subaru has already vetoed that option, which is about as dumb as Mazda vetoing a MS Miata.  Murricans love power, and more than that, torque in their sports cars.

[Raza]

Is that a bad thing?

Some people prefer the effort.  I know I do.  Things are more enjoyable when you have to work for them, and for me, driving is no different.  Sure, there are things in my car that are comforts and conveniences, but the core of it isn't. 

[S204STi]

I suppose that if they were to give their flat-six a makeover like this engine received, and if that were crammed in here, maybe then I'd be interested.