Camaro ZL1... something wicked this way comes.

[Soup DeVille]

I agree that driver, weather, temp and all kinds of shit can make a big difference. That said, this is a fast fucking lap.

Agreed. I honestly doubt anybody is trying to decide on whether to buy a Camaro or a 599 based on this, but for the Camaro to even be listed in the same vicinity is bragging rights enough.

[Payman]

So many variables. Who's to say the Audi R8 was run by Walter Rorhl, in perfect conditions, while the Camaro was run by a mullet wearing Jim Bob in damp conditions... it can work both ways. Also remember, the times I listed from the chart are the fastest laps ever done by these cars. The fastest time laid down by a Ford GT was exactly one second faster than the Camaro (7:40).

[NomisR]

Every 'Ring time is like that, and people love to use those as standards.

I really wonder for whom these lap times make a difference, as far as actually pushing the button

Also, isn't there a lot of different configurations for the ring?

[Payman]

Also, isn't there a lot of different configurations for the ring?

Yes, but for comparison purposes, and using Stefan Bellof's 1983 record of 6:11 as a baseline, the 12.7 mile Nordshleife is used, very close to what it was then except for a few minor changes (dangerous bumps removed, a few corners adjusted for safety). There are separate records for the Sudshleife (abandoned), the F1 track built in 1994, and the entire 17+ miles.

[sportyaccordy]

Also, isn't there a lot of different configurations for the ring?

Not a lot, but enough to make a difference.

The concept of bragging about what your car *could* do is asinine anyway. "This thing clears the 'Ring faster than a GT-R". Right, in capable hands. Most people can't drive worth a damn, and most people will never set foot on a road course. So all that potential is wasted. And within the realm of the street, aside from illegal hoonery, its prob not far off from a stock armored truck Z28. So IDK

[Cookie Monster]

Not a lot, but enough to make a difference.

The concept of bragging about what your car *could* do is asinine anyway. "This thing clears the 'Ring faster than a GT-R". Right, in capable hands. Most people can't drive worth a damn, and most people will never set foot on a road course. So all that potential is wasted. And within the realm of the street, aside from illegal hoonery, its prob not far off from a stock armored truck Z28. So IDK

By that measure, most people aren't skilled enough to reach max slalom speed or even match 0-60 times, so we shouldn't compare those either.

[sportyaccordy]

By that measure, most people aren't skilled enough to reach max slalom speed or even match 0-60 times, so we shouldn't compare those either.

Well I mean, those at least tell you some aspect of a car's performance. But you're right in that specs don't really tell much about a car's character. I mean a Megane Trophy, NSX-R and M6 all lap in the 8:09 range... but would you call the cars competitors? Similar in character? Is there anything revealed about how the cars drive from that time? It's a lil silly to me, as far as the importance put on it. I mean I'm curious to see how the new Rustang does, but I have no desire or use for either car

[Payman]

Not a lot, but enough to make a difference.

The concept of bragging about what your car *could* do is asinine anyway. "This thing clears the 'Ring faster than a GT-R". Right, in capable hands. Most people can't drive worth a damn, and most people will never set foot on a road course. So all that potential is wasted. And within the realm of the street, aside from illegal hoonery, its prob not far off from a stock armored truck
Z28. So IDK

So, there's no point in testing and comparing cars?

Look, yes there are many variables that affect lap times. But consider this: take the qualifying times for a particular F1 track, over the last 10 years so 10 different temperatures and weather conditions (except for wet tracks) can be analyzed. Throw in all the different F1 cars in that time, with all the different drivers. You probably won't find more than 5 seconds difference between the slowest and fastest times.

[Payman]

Well I mean, those at least tell you some aspect of a car's performance. But you're right in that specs don't really tell much about a car's character. I mean a Megane Trophy, NSX-R and M6 all lap in the 8:09 range... but would you call the cars competitors? Similar in character? Is there anything revealed about how the cars drive from that time? It's a lil silly to me.

Of course not, and no they aren't competitors. But it's a pretty good thing for Chevy to be able to brag that its redneck muscle car beat a $400,000 Ferrari around the world's most famous racetrack.

[sportyaccordy]

So, there's no point in testing and comparing cars?

Look, yes there are many variables that affect lap times. But consider this: take the qualifying times for a particular F1 track, over the last 10 years so 10 different temperatures and weather conditions (except for wet tracks) can be analyzed. Throw in all the different F1 cars in that time, with all the different drivers. You probably won't find more than 5 seconds difference between the slowest and fastest times.

Right, but that's F1 racing. The whole point of it is to do a lap in the fastest time within the allowed rules. To me personally that is not the point or source of enjoyment of a street car.

You're right in that it's a good achievement for the company, but it doesn't necessarily mean this thing will be a great car for the consumer.

Of course not, and no they aren't competitors. But it's a pretty good thing for Chevy to be able to brag that its redneck muscle car beat a $400,000 Ferrari around the world's most famous racetrack.

Well I don't think it really puts a dent in Ferrari's armor.

[GoCougs]

None of this lessens the impressivness of the time laid down by a 4120 lb muscle car.

It does, if you hate the Camaro with every ounce of your being.

[Payman]

Well, compare the ZL1 time to it's competition. The only thing remotely close is the CTS-V at 7:59. What this tells me, if I were in the market for a $50,000 muscle car, is that the ZL1 is quite the handler, beating much more expensive pure sportscars and exotics in a (grantedly) rough comparison of their abilities. This is valuable info for me, and perhaps enough to justify buying one over anything else in its market and price range. "This thing did 7:41 around the 'Ring" is a pretty good pride of ownership statement.

[sportyaccordy]

Id much rather the CTS... just an all around better car

[Payman]

Id much rather the CTS... just an all around better car

I like the V as well, but it's too early to say that. GM obviously did something magical with the ZL1, and until I read a proper road test, I won't pass judgement yet.

[GoCougs]

Id much rather the CTS... just an all around better car

More luxurious? Yes. More practical? Yes (but only the sedan). Better performer? No. Better chassis? No. Better drive train? No.

But I too would probably opt for the CTS-V sedan over the ZL1, but only because it's a four-door.

[hotrodalex]

CTS-V wagon for me.

[SVT666]

It does, if you hate the Camaro with every ounce of your being.

Nope.  It's fucking impressive...but I bet the GT500 knocks at least 10 seconds off that time.

[SVT666]

CTS-V wagon for me.

If I could have any wagon on the market it would be the Caddy.

[Soup DeVille]

CTS-V wagon for me.

The wagon is too short to be a proper wagon.

I'd take the coupe.

[Payman]

I want a '69 Olds Vista Cruiser with the CTS-V engine and suspension in it.   

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

If it was a M3, GT-R or Cayman that put up this time it would be a circle fuck of praise! But since it's "just" a rednack Chevy all the haters wanna cry about differant drivers and track condition. The fact is the fucking car goes like crack through an inner city ghetto and haters will find any lil reason (thank God it doesn't have the seats outta the Corvette) to talk negative.

[Soup DeVille]

If it was a M3, GT-R or Cayman that put up this time it would be a circle fuck of praise! But since it's "just" a rednack Chevy all the haters wanna cry about differant drivers and track condition. The fact is the fucking car goes like crack through an inner city ghetto and haters will find any lil reason (thank God it doesn't have the seats outta the Corvette) to talk negative.

It weighs too much and i don't like the texture of the plastic used on the dashboard.

[Payman]

If it was a M3, GT-R or Cayman that put up this time it would be a circle fuck of praise! But since it's "just" a rednack Chevy all the haters wanna cry about differant drivers and track condition. The fact is the fucking car goes like crack through an inner city ghetto and haters will find any lil reason (thank God it doesn't have the seats outta the Corvette) to talk negative.

[GoCougs]

If it was a M3, GT-R or Cayman that put up this time it would be a circle fuck of praise! But since it's "just" a rednack Chevy all the haters wanna cry about differant drivers and track condition. The fact is the fucking car goes like crack through an inner city ghetto and haters will find any lil reason (thank God it doesn't have the seats outta the Corvette) to talk negative.

Yup.

[GoCougs]

It weighs too much and i don't like the texture of the plastic used on the dashboard.

This is either an extremely craft post, or not.

[Soup DeVille]

This is either an extremely craft post, or not.

The hood/fender body gaps are too wide and make it look like a kit car.

[GoCougs]

The hood/fender body gaps are too wide and make it look like a kit car.

The cup holders are too small and the steering wheel is ugly.

[Soup DeVille]

The cup holders are too small and the steering wheel is ugly.

The horn sounds like a gay flatulent moose.

[SVT666]

If it was a M3, GT-R or Cayman that put up this time it would be a circle fuck of praise! But since it's "just" a rednack Chevy all the haters wanna cry about differant drivers and track condition. The fact is the fucking car goes like crack through an inner city ghetto and haters will find any lil reason (thank God it doesn't have the seats outta the Corvette) to talk negative.

Of course.  I'm a hater, but this time is astonishing.  With an additional 100 hp though, the GT500 should easily beat this time.  I find it funny that Cougs hasn't chimed in with Sporty though since he has in the past when it is a car he doesn't like.

[GoCougs]

The horn sounds like a gay flatulent moose.

The shifter feels lousy and IRS is bad for drag racing.