So is it worth it?

[GoCougs]

If he's not sure if these kinds of cars are worth it or not for himself then I'm 100% sure that this kind of thing is not for him.

Was huge into modding cars once upon a time, so this is something I have mostly done (save for paint and body work) but now my interests and life have diverged from that. I also need something reliable for 100k miles.

[sportyaccordy]

I don't think Cougs is an S2000 kind of guy.  I think he should buy a Camry SE and be done with it.

I didn't want to say it

But it embodies easy stomp-n-go stoplight supremacy w/no qualms whatsoever about O&M costs/hassles.

He drove a whole buttload of cars and none of them wowed him enough to overcome his inner pragmatist. W/o spending an unfathomable amount of money I don't know that there is anything that will do the job better for him

No swipes or anything. Cougs have you driven the new Camry V6 yet?

[GoCougs]

There's a diff between figuring out if you can afford something and figuring out if something is worth parting with your money for

If you're agonizing over the former you have champagne tastes on a PBR budget

If you're agonizing over the latter you're prob not 100% committed to the idea to begin with

Buying a new car is taking a bath every single time. Hell buying used can be if you already have a perfectly good running car. Cougs doesn't seem like the kind of guy to do anything on a whim... and no matter how much you rationalize it, there is an element of impulsiveness that has to be present in buying a new car. ESPECIALLY a new car beyond what's necessary (i.e. not a Honda Accord)

If I was him... I would get an old S2000 and keep the Accord. Or trade for a new 4 banger Accord  and an S200

I've done the two car thing before - not worth it owing to the hassle of maintenance, cleaning, etc.

Not a fan of something like the S2000; I'd much sooner chose an Accord V6 coupe.

[Rich]

I've heard the new Camry has a much better interior than the old one

[GoCougs]

No, he strikes me as someone who has little interest in building and driving something like that and I don't think he has or wants to learn the skills necessary to build one.  That's not necessarly bad, building a kit car like that isn't for everyone.   

I could totally rock a Factory Five kit; have both the skills and experience save for paint and body work - sold the air stuff and welder some time ago so I'd have to retool a bit to take on such a project. Correct thought that time and desire is nil; partially burned out from the past but mostly my life has moved beyond wrenching on cars.

[sportyaccordy]

I've done the two car thing before - not worth it owing to the hassle of maintenance, cleaning, etc.

Not a fan of something like the S2000; I'd much sooner chose an Accord V6 coupe.

Yea that is another realistic choice for you

As much as I rib you about the Camry shit I couldn't stomach buying something crazy brand new even if I could afford it. And if I didn't have time to wrench I wouldn't want to bother with something old either. Plus its just a car. My next car will prob be something like an old Sentra or something.

[GoCougs]

Yes, have driven the new Camry SE V6 (waiting till I make my choice then I will post a summary of all that I have driven). A surprise or two. But yes, the interior is improved, but didn't like the steering wheel and its controls.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yea that is another realistic choice for you

As much as I rib you about the Camry shit I couldn't stomach buying something crazy brand new even if I could afford it. And if I didn't have time to wrench I wouldn't want to bother with something old either. Plus its just a car. My next car will prob be something like an old Sentra or something.

Unthusiast! 

[SVT666]

Yes, have driven the new Camry SE V6 (waiting till I make my choice then I will post a summary of all that I have driven). A surprise or two. But yes, the interior is improved, but didn't like the steering wheel and its controls.

Interesting.  Previously you said complaints about steering wheels and controls are invalid.

[68_427]

A Super 7 replica with a Honda K20 would be pretty sweet...

You mean F20C?

[sportyaccordy]

You mean F20C?

Probably, but I would try the K20. Less powerful out of the box, but Ks have intake cam phasing that the Fs don't. Makes for a huge improvement in low rpm driveability. Plus the Ks respond to mods much better than Fs to the point that the power difference doesn't matter.

Sorry just couldn't help myself.

[dazzleman]

As some have gathered I'm sorta in the market for a new ride. The Accoridan is racking up miles (~146k) and I'm a bit bored with it.

I'm pretty much looking all up and down the spectrum of performance vehicles, but after a relatively low threshold, maintenance items become substantial; tires, DSG service, etc., depending on the car of course; from a $25k GTI or WRX to a $30k Mustang GT or Camaro SS. Suffice it to say I've never owned a car that needed this sort of attention (beyond a timing belt change every 100k, but that's not cheap).

For example, an S4 is shod with P255 35R19 summer performance tires. Such tires don't last long (20k miles) and depending on replacements, it's $1,000+ (all-seasons, though hard to find, I imagine would last longer, but not much). Dedicated studless snows are even more - up to $1,300 for a set.

As to what I'm looking at, is the maintenance costs worth the surcharge over a plebeian vehicle? Rhetorical I guess, but uncorking a car like an S4, TL, 335i, etc., on public roads is by definition a rare event.

You make bank.  Get what you want.

[sportyaccordy]

What he wants is the problem

[Rupert]

Interesting.  Previously you said complaints about steering wheels and controls are invalid.

[3.0L V6]

New or CPO Lexus IS350? Keeps the price down (at least for the CPO version), reasonably quick/sporty, Japanese level reliability.

Don't know much about the maintenance costs of Lexuses (Lexi?) but I think the dealership experience is usually rated top-notch.

[GoCougs]

You make bank.  Get what you want.

I like to buy based on what I need. Wrapping my head buying around more is taking me some time. Have been getting huge use out of the Accord lately with various activities - just today did an all-day ski trip with four of us. Roof rack and snow tires and ~200 miles later she just plugs along even at ~150,000 miles. It looks like it has 40,000 miles yet I'm not too worried about road rash or it getting dirty. It just does goes.

[GoCougs]

New or CPO Lexus IS350? Keeps the price down (at least for the CPO version), reasonably quick/sporty, Japanese level reliability.

Don't know much about the maintenance costs of Lexuses (Lexi?) but I think the dealership experience is usually rated top-notch.

Unacceptable backseat room - it's almost a four-door 2+2. But I do like the car overall.

[sportyaccordy]

Unacceptable backseat room - it's almost a four-door 2+2. But I do like the car overall.

Me + my 6' wife fit in it fine

But I could see its utility being limited

[GoCougs]

Me + my 6' wife fit in it fine

But I could see its utility being limited

Rear leg room is 30.6" - smaller than ANY compact I can Google. The back seats are coupe useless.

[Rupert]

People have drastically differing definitions of "fit fine" in my experience.

[dazzleman]

I like to buy based on what I need. Wrapping my head buying around more is taking me some time. Have been getting huge use out of the Accord lately with various activities - just today did an all-day ski trip with four of us. Roof rack and snow tires and ~200 miles later she just plugs along even at ~150,000 miles. It looks like it has 40,000 miles yet I'm not too worried about road rash or it getting dirty. It just does goes.

i know what you mean.  You've reached a point in life when you can afford more than you need, and you're not sure how far beyond your needs to go in indulging your wants.

A lot will depend on your overall financial situation.  If you have enough saved, are on the right financial trajectory, and don't require financing to go beyond what you need, then you can indulge yourself a bit.

Being able to do that is the one advantage of getting a little older.  Why forego it?

[GoCougs]

i know what you mean.  You've reached a point in life when you can afford more than you need, and you're not sure how far beyond your needs to go in indulging your wants.

A lot will depend on your overall financial situation.  If you have enough saved, are on the right financial trajectory, and don't require financing to go beyond what you need, then you can indulge yourself a bit.

Being able to do that is the one advantage of getting a little older.  Why forego it?

Well, for one, in looking at the various options such as the TL, S4, 3 series, etc., I'm realizing that a fair amount of compromise is made for "luxury" and/or performance, and for me, the comprise is substantial (namely, reliability, passenger space, and cost of maintenance namely tires). I have zero interest in larger luxury/performance vehicles such as the E-class, A6, etc. Just far too ugly. The new 5 series is okay but again, it's all filled up with 'meh' such as turbocharged engines, iDrive, and far too much frivolous content, plus very mediocre reliability record.

Second, I have zero penchant for "luxury" features such as leather, moonroof, navigation, etc. I like some materially beneficial "luxury" features such as heated seats and HID headlights, and I'm opening up a bit to navigation, but that's about it. All these features however can be readily found on plebeian cars.

Third, though I do alright financially, now that I approach 40 and having recently embarked on long term financial planning, I realize how much money one will need to truly retire. As best as I figure, in 25 years' time (and factoring in TVM), a 65-year-old male in moderately good health will need at least $2MM to retire, and that's factoring in Medicare and Social Security. In the moderate chance those programs rightly dissolve, said wanton retiree would need at least $2.5MM. I'm partially on my way there but saving 10% or 20% of my income ain't going to be enough.

As it's shaping up, a slightly used and moderately equipped Camcord is very possibly in my near future.

[Laconian]

Save the cushy boring cars for when you're old and your joints suck. Drive a brutal car while you still can.

[Onslaught]

Third, though I do alright financially, now that I approach 40 and having recently embarked on long term financial planning, I realize how much money one will need to truly retire. As best as I figure, in 25 years' time (and factoring in TVM), a 65-year-old male in moderately good health will need at least $2MM to retire, and that's factoring in Medicare and Social Security. In the moderate chance those programs rightly dissolve, said wanton retiree would need at least $2.5MM. I'm partially on my way there but saving 10% or 20% of my income ain't going to be enough.

You sure about that? I don't know of anyone with that kind of money. Even ones who are retired or working for it.

[GoCougs]

Save the cushy boring cars for when you're old and your joints suck. Drive a brutal car while you still can.

Again, as I come closer to grokking the decision and actually testing driving cars, there are too many compromises for what I use a daily driver for; skiing, mountain biking and hiking (i.e., gravel road travel), and carrying people and stuff around, etc. For example, to pick on the S4 again, the back seat is shockingly tight and the replacement tires, which I'd need on average every 16 months with my current driving habits, are ~$1,500 a set. I'm pretty sure it needs synthetic oil and has short life brakes. And with all such cars the reliability track record is marginal. It ain't lasting a ~100k miles, let alone the ~150k miles as I have on the Accord, without significant repairs.

To agitate again with the Camcord V6 for the 87th time, it's the perfect type of car for me. Carries four and all our gear with ease. Can be fairly cheaply be fitted with snow tires and roof and hitch racks. Best possible reliability track record. And despite what is said on here, they are better performing and more engaging cars to drive than most cars; either those here on the 'SPIN or in the public in general. I think I'm going to wait till the all-new Accord is debuted before making any final decisions.

[GoCougs]

You sure about that? I don't know of anyone with that kind of money. Even ones who are retired or working for it.

The issue is, just by trending inflation of health care, and major lifestyle items such as fuel, utilities, and the like, plus abominable monetary policy, I estimate a 5% inflation rate and a 3% savings rate. That means that $2MM in 2037 is equivalent to only $754,000 today, which if factoring in a $2,000/month draw down, would leave a retiree with $0 during the 19th year of retirement.

True, few have that kind of money. Scary indeed.

[TurboDan]

20s and 18s are always cheaper than 19s!

I was relieved that the LR2 had the 18in wheels instead of the 19s, which is an option on that car. The price of tires can almost double between 18 and 19.

[TurboDan]

Well, for one, in looking at the various options such as the TL, S4, 3 series, etc., I'm realizing that a fair amount of compromise is made for "luxury" and/or performance, and for me, the comprise is substantial (namely, reliability, passenger space, and cost of maintenance namely tires). I have zero interest in larger luxury/performance vehicles such as the E-class, A6, etc. Just far too ugly. The new 5 series is okay but again, it's all filled up with 'meh' such as turbocharged engines, iDrive, and far too much frivolous content, plus very mediocre reliability record.

I'm not sure why you think there is such a drastic difference in reliability between an Camry and, say, an A4. My Passat (same car different skin, at least back in my model year) was very reliable 'til I traded it in at 153K miles a few weeks ago – just oil changes, brakes/tires and changed the timing belt around 100K. It had one factory defect, which was covered under warranty. Growing up, my family usually always had one "plebian" car and one luxury and/or sports car. Save my Saab Story, I never remember any of those luxury/performance cars being significantly less reliable than the other cars. I think those issues tend to be overstated.

I hate to use an old slogan, but "driving is believing," if that makes any sense. When I was just searching for a car, I test drove a BMW 3er. It was actually an emotional experience for me. You could feel the soul of the car. I wish I could've gotten it, but unfortunately my situation is such that I need an SUV at the moment. But some day when the LR2 starts getting long in the tooth with 150K miles, I think I'll end up keeping it as a second utility car that I can beat up on the beach/in the woods without worrying about scratching paint etc., and get a 3er. I had never really driven one, save for a girl I went on a date with once who had a couple too many drinks at dinner, but it was an enjoyable experience.

If you drive the car and it does nothing for you, move on...

[SVT666]

Again, as I come closer to grokking the decision and actually testing driving cars, there are too many compromises for what I use a daily driver for; skiing, mountain biking and hiking (i.e., gravel road travel), and carrying people and stuff around, etc. For example, to pick on the S4 again, the back seat is shockingly tight and the replacement tires, which I'd need on average every 16 months with my current driving habits, are ~$1,500 a set. I'm pretty sure it needs synthetic oil and has short life brakes. And with all such cars the reliability track record is marginal. It ain't lasting a ~100k miles, let alone the ~150k miles as I have on the Accord, without significant repairs.

To agitate again with the Camcord V6 for the 87th time, it's the perfect type of car for me. Carries four and all our gear with ease. Can be fairly cheaply be fitted with snow tires and roof and hitch racks. Best possible reliability track record. And despite what is said on here, they are better performing and more engaging cars to drive than most cars; either those here on the 'SPIN or in the public in general. I think I'm going to wait till the all-new Accord is debuted before making any final decisions.

All you are doing is trying to convince yourself just to get a new Camry or Accord.  Spare us the "...more engaging than all your cars..." bullshit.  They aren't.  You know it.  We know it.  You want another dull midsize family sedan, so just buy one.

[2o6]

The Accord is the only choice for the alphas. Anything less is a beta move.