Cadillac ATS.

[hounddog]

If you are buying a Buick, you are about as much of an "enthusiast" as someone who buys an E320. 

In other words; you are not. 

Still, the Verano looks better and has a nicer interior.  (at least in the photos I have seen of both)

[FlatBlackCaddy]

If you are buying a Buick, you are about as much of an "enthusiast" as someone who buys an E320. 

In other words; you are not. 

Still, the Verano looks better and has a nicer interior.  (at least in the photos I have seen of both)

The enthusiast would be the one buying top spec opels/vauxhauls and holdens. That's my point exactly.

[hounddog]

OK

[2o6]

The verano, ya I feel something when I look at that.

Anger, and disappointment. Another GM-European rebadge/rebrand attempt that fails to do justice to the original cars, the intended market segment or the would be enthusiast owners.

The ATS is on an entirely new platform....shared with no Holden or Opel. There is no original car....

[hounddog]

He was talking about the Buick, I believe.

[pendyman]

I love it, both inside and out. Here?s a link to a video I don?t think has been linked to here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h_MUBAgdW08

And another, six minute video that shows the car on the road, and lots of pics of a silver one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXPlmRJe86M&feature=related

It doesn?t look to me that they have left A&S.



I think this view shows the complexity of the design, which I like very much.

Seeing it with my own eyes will seal, or cancel the deal, but I?m already pretty much sold.

The performance will tell the tale, ultimately. Cadillac has said it wants to be in the high-end game, and it needs to be in the compact end of it. So, here is its play. I think visually it?s there.

As long as it?s competitive, this car has a chance at making an impact.

[Catman]

After watching the vids I really like this car, it will be a hit. 

[Hachee]

This.  No emotional response to it at all.

I much prefer the Verano.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can have such different opinions about cars (or anything else, for that matter).  But this is a good thing, and that's why it's nice to have choices.

I think the Verano is unbelievably bad-looking, with horrible proportions.  (The interior looks nice, as far as I can tell.)  And I'm not Buick-basher - I think they've come along way and I like their other cars.

[Hachee]

I'll have to see the ATS in person, but as of now, I like it, but not as much as I'd like to.  I think the problem for me is that, while different enough from the CTS, it does seem a bit watered down.  I think the CTS looks much better - I think it's one of the best looking cars on the road.  It's bold in a good way, where this is not.  The STS looked like a watered down CTS, and look how that sold (although its crappy interior and higher price didn't help either).

I definitely see a resemblence to the first CTS and perhaps, as others have said, to the C-Class, but I don't think the C-Class did anything original in terms of lines or proportions.  The worst angle of the ATS is the profile, where the side windows look a bit too small, and the rear door windows have a shape that's very similar to the current E-Class and last gen Accord.  This weakens the whole look.

The interior looks great - if they can keep the quality of materials up, it's certainly no worse than its competitors, and probably better.

[omicron]

I like it more after seeing some of the videos, and it's recognisably Cadillac, but something inside me wishes they were just a little bit more daring (although not Hyundai-daring - stylists with eyes, preferably).

[sportyaccordy]

How did Hyundai lose credibility?  As I recall, the dynos all indicated that their motors were putting out the peak power they advertised.

They dyno right, but somehow that power doesn't translate to actual acceleration.

Genesis 3.8 (old)
Curb weight: 3488
HP: 306/6300
TQ: 266/4700
0-60: 6.4s
1/4: 14.5 @ 97.9
Test conditions: 55 deg F

07 G35 Sedan (new body)
Curb weight: 3,638
HP: 306/6800
TQ: 268/5200
0-60: 5.5
1/4: 13.9 @ 102.6
Test temp: 60 deg F

To be fair, early Genesis' 3.8 coupes had a weird ECU thing that would cut power at redline... but even the later cars (that I think were fixed) are barely in the low 14s. Meanwhile there are G35s and Zs making pretty much the same exact power that are deep in the high 13s. Something's not quite right

[sportyaccordy]

If you are buying a Buick, you are about as much of an "enthusiast" as someone who buys an E320. 

In other words; you are not. 

I disagree...

[ifcar]

They dyno right, but somehow that power doesn't translate to actual acceleration.

Genesis 3.8 (old)
Curb weight: 3488
HP: 306/6300
TQ: 266/4700
0-60: 6.4s
1/4: 14.5 @ 97.9
Test conditions: 55 deg F

07 G35 Sedan (new body)
Curb weight: 3,638
HP: 306/6800
TQ: 268/5200
0-60: 5.5
1/4: 13.9 @ 102.6
Test temp: 60 deg F

To be fair, early Genesis' 3.8 coupes had a weird ECU thing that would cut power at redline... but even the later cars (that I think were fixed) are barely in the low 14s. Meanwhile there are G35s and Zs making pretty much the same exact power that are deep in the high 13s. Something's not quite right

Proving, to the apparent astonishment of the online automotive community, that there are more factors to an automobile's performance than a listing of its mechanical specifications.

[hounddog]

And, where can you buy a new one of these?

I disagree...

I already said the interior looks better than the ATS. 

I was speaking allogorically.

[2o6]

They dyno right, but somehow that power doesn't translate to actual acceleration.

Genesis 3.8 (old)
Curb weight: 3488
HP: 306/6300
TQ: 266/4700
0-60: 6.4s
1/4: 14.5 @ 97.9
Test conditions: 55 deg F

07 G35 Sedan (new body)
Curb weight: 3,638
HP: 306/6800
TQ: 268/5200
0-60: 5.5
1/4: 13.9 @ 102.6
Test temp: 60 deg F

To be fair, early Genesis' 3.8 coupes had a weird ECU thing that would cut power at redline... but even the later cars (that I think were fixed) are barely in the low 14s. Meanwhile there are G35s and Zs making pretty much the same exact power that are deep in the high 13s. Something's not quite right

Um, gearing? Iirc, CJ said Hyundais are geared taller for customer satisfaction and fuel economy.

[MX793]

Um, gearing? Iirc, CJ said Hyundais are geared taller for customer satisfaction and fuel economy.

Not with the Gen Coupe.  

IIRC, though, that 6.4 was a very early test car.  I've seen mid 5s in later tests from most mags (C&D, R&T, etc...) and 1/4 mile in the very low 14s, which is in line with the V6 Mustang.

[r0tor]

Styling looks ok, the rear is a bit weak.
Specs look good.
Interior looks good.
Price sounds good.

Interesting to see how it drives.

[Vinsanity]

Interesting to see how it drives.

Indeed. With more traditional Cadillac customers warming up to the CTS, and with the XTS being the ultimate pre-A&S-era snoozer, this is Cadillac's opportunity to make something truly enjoyable to drive (besides the CTS-V of course)

[Madman]

Now that's an exportable Cadillac right there.

Yes, especially in diesel form, which Cadillac has confirmed will be available. 

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/08/2013-cadillac-ats-debuts-in-detroit-diesel-engine-confirmed/

[Eye of the Tiger]

I disagree...

I wish that interior came with that exterior.

[68_427]

Chicago Auto Show 2012: Cadillac ATS Will Get Torque Vectoring


We say the ATS torque-vectoring is a ?full-blown? arrangement because it will not be the simpler, pinch-a-brake setup that many automakers describe as torque-vectoring. Instead, Leone said, the ATS differentials will be able to deliver extra torque to an individual rear wheel (or front wheel in the case of AWD models) when required. 

More at the link.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/02/chicago-auto-show-2012-cadillac-ats-will-get-torque-vectoring.html

[sportyaccordy]

Interesting that they benchmarked the E46's dynamics.

[CJ]

If you are buying a Buick, you are about as much of an "enthusiast" as someone who buys an E320. 

In other words; you are not. 

I'm pretty sure you're fucked in the head.  I mean, we already knew it and we've already confirmed it, but sheesh.  You're just fucked. 

[Laconian]

I'm pretty sure you're fucked in the head.  I mean, we already knew it and we've already confirmed it, but sheesh.  You're just fucked. 

No, that attitude is just GM reaping what they sow. Cater to nobody but 80 year olds for three decades and that's the type of consumer perception that you get. GM isn't going to change that attitude overnight because they are suddenly selling Omega Gamma Sigma Really-Competitive-This-Time World!!! Cars with turbo fours.

[2o6]

No, that attitude is just GM reaping what they sow. Cater to nobody but 80 year olds for three decades and that's the type of consumer perception that you get. GM isn't going to change that attitude overnight because they are suddenly selling Omega Gamma Sigma Really-Competitive-This-Time World!!! Cars with turbo fours.

Why do people assume catering to older people is a bad thing?

[Colonel Cadillac]

More at the link.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/02/chicago-auto-show-2012-cadillac-ats-will-get-torque-vectoring.html

Very interesting indeed! The ATS is looking to be very promising... I am excited.

[Laconian]

Why do people assume catering to older people is a bad thing?

Because you can't pivot and sell to young people overnight? Branding and reputation carry inertia that must be overcome gradually. GM marketers haven't the patience to turn the ship slowly. So they naturally receive comments like Hounddog's.

[sportyaccordy]

I'm pretty sure you're fucked in the head.  I mean, we already knew it and we've already confirmed it, but sheesh.  You're just fucked. 

He only posts on CS when hes drunk. Just ignore him

Why do people assume catering to older people is a bad thing?

Because eventually old people die and the young people you should have been courting have forged ties of loyalty elsewhere.

Makes more sense to do something like Toyota, and offer a wide range of cars catering to all ages & needs.

[MexicoCityM3]

Caddy keeps getting better and better. This might be the closest 3 series rival ever. We?ll see.

I like the specs, the exterior styling and the performance (from what I have read, haven?t driven any Caddy ever). It?s just the interior styling that turns me off for some reason. The materials are nice, it?s the design that I do not like. Entirely subjective of course.

[MexicoCityM3]

Having said that, does this use the Buick Regal 2.0 turbo engine? I test drove one of those recently and the engine may be powerful but it is laggy as hell and years behind the new 2.0T in the 328i in throttle response.