UPDATE: 2-0 on tickets

[J86]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[dazzleman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[Rupert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akbflkF_1zY&feature=relmfu

[850CSi]

This thread of full of derp.

[J86]

Rupert and I are the only ones making useful contributions here!

[Byteme]

You don't have it covered, or you can't understand what has been written.

I beat the system twice and you simply have to accept it. No amount of HateSPIN is going to change that.  

Beat it    to the tune of $1,300 lighter.  

Just who beat who is open for discussion.

[Raza]

I just said I'd rather a person who calls it that, as opposed to playing victim.

Every person who gets a speeding ticket is a victim of an unjust system that favors revenue generation over actual traffic safety.

[GoCougs]

Beat it    to the tune of $1,300 lighter.   

Just who beat who is open for discussion.

Nah, complete WinSPIN, and I'm not even talking about rohan's disgraceful performance yesterday.

[GoCougs]

Every person who gets a speeding ticket is a victim of an unjust system that favors revenue generation over actual traffic safety.

But what about those who plainly drive too fast? Despotism is bad, anarchy is bad too. At some point there has to be traffic enforcement WRT to speed but it has to be logical.

[Raza]

But what about those who plainly drive too fast? Despotism is bad, anarchy is bad too. At some point there has to be traffic enforcement WRT to speed but it has to be logical.

I will concede that those driving dangerously (though I will not concede that speed is the only factor) should be dealt with; but as you said, the enforcement has to be logical, which it is not currently. 

[850CSi]

I will concede that those driving dangerously (though I will not concede that speed is the only factor) should be dealt with; but as you said, the enforcement has to be logical, which it is not currently. 

What would 'logical' speeding laws look like, in your opinion?

[TurboDan]

What would 'logical' speeding laws look like, in your opinion?

Perhaps speeding could only be charged if it is an aggravating factor to another violation, or perhaps as a tack-on to a "catch all" charge such as Careless Driving (for use in situations such as speeding in heavy traffic, poor driving conditions, etc.).

This only applies to highway driving, of course. I don't believe speed limits on local/residential roads should be curtailed.

[hounddog]

You know, I have been driving alot lately, and what I have realized is that while some stretches of roadway are fairly smooth and comfortable even those stretches are ruined by things such as connections of bridges where the surfaces are uneven and extremely rough.
Very few bridges are smooth across the entire surface, and at speeds over 80 or 90 are unsafe.  The problem is that is the norm not the exception.

The roads in the US are just not good enough to travel at speeds much higher than we do.  Our infrastructure is just not set up for traveling at high speed, and as such, speed alone can make driving unsafe.

In fact, we do not even come close to building roads the way the Germans do, or, even as good as we used to build them.  An example;  there is a stretch of I-69 from Charlotte, Mi to Ft. Wayne, In.  The stretch was first installed around 1961 and lasted, in good condition,  until it was replaced in 2002.  Since then, that stretch of freeway from Charlotte to the Indiana border has been replaced twice due to degredation of the road surfaces. 

In fact, the state is planning on replacing the entire road surface yet again in 2015 because it is already falling apart. 

If we ever decide to build roads which would last as we used to, the freeways as I understand it do not extend below the frost line as they used to, or as the Germans do unlimted speed should be ok.  Until then, our roads are just not safe enough for no, or limited, speed enforcement.

[TurboDan]

The roads in the US are just not good enough to travel at speeds much higher than we do.  Our infrastructure is just not set up for traveling at high speed, and as such, speed alone can make driving unsafe.

Generally speaking, the standards between the U.S. Interstate system and the Autobahn are almost identical. In some categories (such as rural design speed, grading and shoulders) the Interstate system standards are actually superior.

[hotrodalex]

Generally speaking, the standards between the U.S. Interstate system and the Autobahn are almost identical. In some categories (such as rural design speed, grading and shoulders) the Interstate system standards are actually superior.

Aren't the autobahns all concrete, and built to a better spec? I didn't think Germany repaved the 'Bahn every 2 years due to potholes and such.

[TurboDan]

Aren't the autobahns all concrete, and built to a better spec? I didn't think Germany repaved the 'Bahn every 2 years due to potholes and such.

Pretty sure it's a combination depending on the region. Wims, AutobahnSHO, care to confirm?

Also, a lot of our interstates are concrete. When I lived in Florida they were all concrete. In the northeast it's mostly asphalt, though, purportedly due to improved snow/ice melting.

[dazzleman]

Every person who gets a speeding ticket is a victim of an unjust system that favors revenue generation over actual traffic safety.

[hounddog]

Generally speaking, the standards between the U.S. Interstate system and the Autobahn are almost identical. In some categories (such as rural design speed, grading and shoulders) the Interstate system standards are actually superior.

I admit I am no civil engineer, but, I do believe the Autobahn base concrete/pavement is below the frostline while most "modern" US builds are not due to cost.  

I was also saying that our infrastructure is not good enough, meaning, our general maintanence and overall state of repair on our freeways is not up to par for that type of speed.  Next time you take a drive somewhere pay attention to the connection between roadway and bridges, particular attention to what it might feel like to hit them at 100 to 150 to 200 mph.

Not to mention what it would do for oil consumption.  

[Rupert]

The deserted freeways I drive a lot are usually in pretty decent shape.

[TurboDan]

I admit I am no civil engineer, but, I do believe the Autobahn base concrete/pavement is below the frostline while most "modern" US builds are not due to cost. 

I was also saying that our infrastructure is not good enough, meaning, our general maintanence and overall state of repair on our freeways is not up to par for that type of speed.  Next time you take a drive somewhere pay attention to the connection between roadway and bridges, particular attention to what it might feel like to hit them at 100 to 150 to 200 mph.

Not to mention what it would do for oil consumption. 

Oh yeah, on that I agree. Here in New Jersey we have a bridge that's literally been closed for like four years because the state says it's too expensive to fix.

Of course, what it would cost to repair that bridge is about what they spend on the Newark school district every 4 hours.

[Byteme]

Generally speaking, the standards between the U.S. Interstate system and the Autobahn are almost identical. In some categories (such as rural design speed, grading and shoulders) the Interstate system standards are actually superior.

And you can't judge the whole country by what you find in the frost-rust belt east of the Mississippi.

Long stretches of Interstate highways in the West are easily capable of supporting speeds of 80-90 MPH in perfect safety, traffic and driving skills permitting.  The same holds true for many US and state highways I've been on. 

[GoCougs]

I think you guys are being a bit generous on the ability of the US "system" supporting 90+ mph. Don't forget that there are millions of 15-20 year old jalopies on the road, plus full-size pickups and SUVs, that have no business doing 90 mph. Also don't forget the American Dream (= unwarranted entitlement) which back feeds into the way we drive and the way we punish (or lack of) truly bad driving.

Many things would have to happen to rationally enable 90+ mph speeds it's actually asking for MORE state control and involvement in the affairs of law abiding citizens (not to mention a lot of cost) - far stricter licensing requirements and tests, graduated licensing, graduated vehicle approbation, traffic studies and much improved road construction. Not saying that that isn't the answer but that is the only way I'd ever want to drive on a road with a 90+ mph speed limit.

[Raza]

What would 'logical' speeding laws look like, in your opinion?

Mostly after-the-fact, with some environmental factors.  You can usually tell dangerous driving when you see it, and 95% of people don't engage in dangerous driving, regardless of the speed limits.  There's a reason that the natural speed of traffic on a highway is closer to 70 or 80 than the 55mph limit most of them have.  Generally, people know what's safe and what isn't. 

[Raza]

Make light of it if you will, but what you're doing is accepting injustice by doing so.  If you didn't see something wrong with the way "speeding" is enforced in this country, you wouldn't think it fun to break speed limits and you most certainly wouldn't make a game out of paying fines.

[hounddog]

The deserted freeways I drive a lot are usually in pretty decent shape.

And the freeways in northern Michigan are as well.

In my own experience, they are the exception rather than the rule, unfortunately. 

I would say I can pretty safely drive 120 on our "I" and "US" freeways up here, road surface wise, until I hit M-10 which is about half way down the lower penninsula.  Once there, the change in road surface condition is pretty noticable and dramatic. 

Even with the surfaces being good up here you still have to consider bridges when crossing them because they are not very even or smooth.

[hounddog]

Mostly after-the-fact, with some environmental factor.  You can usually tell dangerous driving when you see it, and 95% of people don't engage in dangerous driving, regardless of the speed limits.  There's a reason that the natural speed of traffic on a highway is closer to 70 or 80 than the 55mph limit most of them have.  Generally, people know what's safe and what isn't.  

55mph limits must just be locational.  All of ours except for some very urban areas such as Detroit and US-131 in Grand Rapids, MI, are all 70mph zones.  Or are you specifically talking about urban areas?

I would be OK with them being raised to 80, but, then you have people like most women and young drivers, which neither should be going that fast as a general rule, hitting speeds many would normally be uncomfortable with.  

I will say this, the one thing I noticed when speeds were changed from 55 to 70 here, the big fear was people would end up doing 80 as the norm but that never really panned out.  Most folks were, and still seem to be, happy just to be able to hit 70.

I have often wondered if that happens to be a speed most are simply comfortable with or what might be the reason.  As a traffic enforcement I noticed that the % of speeders went down drastically from just about everyone to maybe 1:10.  ???

[Rupert]

And the freeways in northern Michigan are as well.

In my own experience, they are the exception rather than the rule, unfortunately. 

I would say I can pretty safely drive 120 on our "I" and "US" freeways up here, road surface wise, until I hit M-10 which is about half way down the lower penninsula.  Once there, the change in road surface condition is pretty noticable and dramatic. 

Even with the surfaces being good up here you still have to consider bridges when crossing them because they are not very even or smooth.

Yeah, except I drive all the freeways in the northwest. I5, I90, I84, I80, I15, and I82.

[2o6]

55mph limits must just be locational.  All of ours except for some very urban areas such as Detroit and US-131 in Grand Rapids, MI, are all 70mph zones.  Or are you specifically talking about urban areas?

I would be OK with them being raised to 80, but, then you have people like most women and young drivers, which neither should be going that fast as a general rule, hitting speeds many would normally be uncomfortable with.  

Seriously?

[Rupert]

Holy gay jesus, I didn't even catch that. 0_0

[CALL_911]

Seriously?

You're really going to tell me you haven't noticed that female drivers are generally worse drivers than male drivers?