C&D 2012 Lightning Lap Results

[r0tor]

Both of which required no investment by GM

[MrH]

Both of which required no investment by GM

Seriously... stop talking out of your ass.  You have no clue what you're talking about.

Also, low volume vehicles rarely get mid cycle interior refreshes.

[r0tor]

Name one sportscar that hasn't received an update since the c6 came out

Even the c6 itself has continually been improved powertrain wise.  The fact no money went to the interior just points to the fact GM does not believe they need to improve the interior to sell cars

[2o6]

Name one sportscar that hasn't received an update since the c6 came out

Yours.

[r0tor]

Yours.

Gen2 came out a few years ago

[MrH]

Name one sportscar that hasn't received an update since the c6 came out

Even the c6 itself has continually been improved powertrain wise.  The fact no money went to the interior just points to the fact GM does not believe they need to improve the interior to sell cars

The releases a leather wrapped version!

[r0tor]

That's a nice upgrade requiring little to no investment... GM sends out some dashboards and panels to a supplier to stich up and then over charges the customer for it.  No tooling, training, or assembly line changes needed.

[MrH]

you do realize i work for about an automotive interior supplier, right?

You seriously think the standard interior is made in house by GM? Lolz

[MrH]

Oh, and if you want to wrap something, that means totally different substrates. New tooling for all those pieces. You think you could wrap a standard dash with spacer fabric and leather, and expect everything to still fit together?

[r0tor]

No, it'd shipped in just like the leather wrapped version... To create a differently textured dash requires a large tooling investment.  To wrap a dash requires no such investment.

[MrH]

This is too funny. You know i just got off a big program that was completely wrapped? And you're going to tell me how it's made?

[r0tor]

Oh please enlighten me how hard it is to outsource leather wrapping on an existing dash piece to a vendor...

[280Z Turbo]

It would cost GM millions of dollars to make a new dash. It takes a long time to get the details right on fit, proper molding conditions, building a new line, training operators on new product, etc.

[MrH]

How do you expect eveythig to fit together if you add between 3-5 mm of spacer fabric and leather on top of everything? All the tooling has to be changed. The entire underlying substrate needs to be designed to be wrapped. That means off set ribs for the spacer fabric to sit in, ditches to hide the salvage material from the stitch lines. I've only seen one car use the same substrate for the wrapped and non wrapped version, and that took substantial rework. The only reason they did that was because it was such small volume, they couldn't justify the tooling, so they took a TON of time to rework each piece by hand before wrapping it.

[r0tor]

It would cost GM millions of dollars to make a new dash. It takes a long time to get the details right on fit, proper molding conditions, building a new line, training operators on new product, etc.

Then doing testing on the materials, durability, ect ect


Leather wrap investment is nilch by comparison.  I could have had the option on my jeep for a few grand.

[280Z Turbo]

Sure doesn't sound like it, but okay. Dig your heels in.

[MrH]

My post didn't warrant a response because you got caught with your pants down?

Just like I shouldn't argue with you about nuclear power plant maintenance, you shouldn't argue with me about the cost of car interiors. But I guess you're too prideful to admit you have no idea what you're talking about.

Then doing testing on the materials, durability, ect ect


Leather wrap investment is nilch by comparison.  I could have had the option on my jeep for a few grand.

On a much higher volume program, that was designed to have a leather wrapped option from the start...

And the corvette has a leather wrapped option what are you trying to prove by pointing out your car does too?

[r0tor]

Callaway sold a leather wrap option before GM.  I seriously doubt they redesigned anything on the dash to make it fit.  Some quick research on the Corvette forums shows the GM "leather" is paper thin and easily fits in the stock panel gaps. 

[Lebowski]

Callaway sold a leather wrap option before GM.

How much did that cost? 

[r0tor]

Not sure, buy apparently ds vettes sells most of what you need and is of much higher quality then the gm pieces

[Raza]

Oh, and if you want to wrap something, that means totally different substrates. New tooling for all those pieces. You think you could wrap a standard dash with spacer fabric and leather, and expect everything to still fit together?

I've got a sewing machine and a cow.  I will wrap any dash in leather for $20.

[GoCougs]

That's a nice upgrade requiring little to no investment... GM sends out some dashboards and panels to a supplier to stich up and then over charges the customer for it.  No tooling, training, or assembly line changes needed.

No offense, but you're digging your heels in out of complete ignorance. You have no idea how large-scale manufacturing works. It takes an immense amount of work to make the smallest of changes; let's say the design of the interior door release handle:

1.) Design reviews, which take into account all sorts of ergonomic rules and guidelines, and let's not forget fit, form, function, and cost.

2.) Prototypes are made of top 1-3 options, likely by the supplier. The prototypes are tested for anything from styling to function to durability.

3.) A final design is chosen and first articles are made; this is to judge anything from the accuracy of the mold tooling to the validation of material to qualification of the molding/stamping/manufacturing process.

4.) The automaker in turn designs and validates the manufacturing process to accommodate the new handle. This includes anything from operator training to logistics.

5.) The automaker puts the new part number into the system to be able to order it, receive it, replace it, and include it in the cost accounting of the product; ERP systems, CRM systems, logistics systems, etc.

6.) The automakers signs the contract, receives the new door handle, and put's it into production.

Not so easy, huh? Now wash, rinse, repeat for an entire interior. It's not an insurmountable task, and automakers (or any large scale manufacturer) have defined process for this, but it takes a lot of time and money ever for the simplest of changes. IT HAS TO BE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

[MexicoCityM3]

The full article is now up on the C&D site in case anyone is interested:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2012-feature