Raptor vs. Ram Runner: the battle is over

[Catman]

This is no different than people buying a mountain bike, breaking the frame and immediately blaming the manufacturer.  Everything has limits and when those limits are reached, something will give.  It doesn't mean it's defective.

[MX793]

In short, so small you can hardly tell by the video = ~6".

Due to the lighting and the resolution of the camera (and the fact that the camera appears to have a wide angle lens on it), you can't really see the obstacle in great detail to determine its real size.  Based on the way the truck reacted when hitting it, that wasn't just a displacement positive bump.  It appeared that there was a dip several inches deep immediately before the bump, with the bump probably being another 6 inches above the ground level of the roadway immediately before the dip.  The distance from the bottom of the dip to the top of the bump/kicker may well have been nearly a foot altogether.

Not to mention that it's not just the amplitude, it's the shape of the bump that can make a big difference as well.  Systems respond differently to sinusoidal inputs than they do to sawtooth or square/step inputs.  You really can't tell how sharp exactly that kicker is from the camera.

[GoCougs]

Due to the lighting and the resolution of the camera (and the fact that the camera appears to have a wide angle lens on it), you can't really see the obstacle in great detail to determine its real size.  Based on the way the truck reacted when hitting it, that wasn't just a displacement positive bump.  It appeared that there was a dip several inches deep immediately before the bump, with the bump probably being another 6 inches above the ground level of the roadway immediately before the dip.  The distance from the bottom of the dip to the top of the bump/kicker may well have been nearly a foot altogether.

Not to mention that it's not just the amplitude, it's the shape of the bump that can make a big difference as well.  Systems respond differently to sinusoidal inputs than they do to sawtooth or square/step inputs.  You really can't tell how sharp exactly that kicker is from the camera.

IMO it's pretty easy to see it's WAY less than 12", and color me unconvinced that a standing wave or resonance was established.

My point was it doesn't take much to bend a frame on a truck; driving much too fast over small obstacles will do that.

[TurboDan]

Well, this dude posted this in the LR2 forum this week:



His airbags deployed on landing, and the seat belt tensioner popped, but no damage otherwise.

[TurboDan]

And as an aside, to date I've never encountered a Raptor or Ram Runner driver on the road who wasn't a complete and utter asshole.

[2o6]

Well, this dude posted this in the LR2 forum this week:



His airbags deployed on landing, and the seat belt tensioner popped, but no damage otherwise.

Airbags deploying is pretty serious, and I don't believe that's all the damage.

[SVT666]

And as an aside, to date I've never encountered a Raptor or Ram Runner driver on the road who wasn't a complete and utter asshole.

You've encountered a Ram Runner?

Every Raptor I've seen has been driven in a respectable manner.  Most of the asshole truck drivers I see are driving diesel Ford, Chevys, or Dodge trucks with 6" lift kits and uncorked exhausts and "Metal Mulisha" stickers on the windows.

[mzziaz]

Well, this dude posted this in the LR2 forum this week:



His airbags deployed on landing, and the seat belt tensioner popped, but no damage otherwise.

Ha, ha. That looks awesome!

Deploying airbags and tensioner sounds expensive though.

[TurboDan]

Airbags deploying is pretty serious, and I don't believe that's all the damage.

Nah, he's already had it checked out. No other damage. This guy is a pretty serious offroader, though, and has all kinds of aftermarket stuff on there to protect the car. I don't think he intended to go in the air like he did (his friend calculated it at 24 feet) but it turned out OK.

The airbags will cost a fortune, I'm sure though.

[TurboDan]

You've encountered a Ram Runner?

Pretty sure I have, unless it was a kit that makes it look just like the real thing. You'd be surprised at how large the redneck, NASCAR loving contingent actually is in certain parts of New Jersey.

They named a street after some NASCAR driver a few towns away from me. 

But yeah, I can't recall ever, in my entire driving career, seeing one of these types of performance pickups being driven by someone who was not acting like a complete asshole.

[Lebowski]

But yeah, I can't recall ever, in my entire driving career, seeing one of these types of performance pickups being driven by someone who was not acting like a complete asshole.

Well, as you said, it is New Jersey.

[MX793]

IMO it's pretty easy to see it's WAY less than 12", and color me unconvinced that a standing wave or resonance was established.

My point was it doesn't take much to bend a frame on a truck; driving much too fast over small obstacles will do that.

Cameras, particularly wide angle lenses, are very deceiving.  Hills and bumps always appear less steep and less severe on camera.

[hotrodalex]

I've never seen a douchey Raptor driver around here.

[Secret Chimp]

Diesel and douche seem to go together quite readily new. It's like ricing has been picked up by Mexicans and everyone else is rolling coal.

[S204STi]

I've never seen a douchey Raptor driver around here.

Me neither.  But like Chimp, I've observed that probably half of all diesel pickup drivers are apparently trying to compensate for a tiny peen.

[r0tor]

Ram runner would bend its frame exactly like the raptor... the thing that separates these trucks from real racing rigs is a tube chassis..

[AutobahnSHO]

I've never seen a douchey Raptor driver around here.

+1

And I even saw one dirty this one time...   

[Rupert]

Due to the lighting and the resolution of the camera (and the fact that the camera appears to have a wide angle lens on it), you can't really see the obstacle in great detail to determine its real size.  Based on the way the truck reacted when hitting it, that wasn't just a displacement positive bump.  It appeared that there was a dip several inches deep immediately before the bump, with the bump probably being another 6 inches above the ground level of the roadway immediately before the dip.  The distance from the bottom of the dip to the top of the bump/kicker may well have been nearly a foot altogether.

Not to mention that it's not just the amplitude, it's the shape of the bump that can make a big difference as well.  Systems respond differently to sinusoidal inputs than they do to sawtooth or square/step inputs.  You really can't tell how sharp exactly that kicker is from the camera.

x2

I have a lot of experience photographing bumps in dirt roads (water bars and dips), and it is nearly impossible to even show that there is a bump there from an angle like that, let alone know how big it is.

I also have a lot of experience driving over bumps like that, and can verify that two bumps with the same amplitude and wavelength cause the vehicle to respond very differently if they have a different shape.

[Rupert]

Yeah, that's insane.  The DNR (Department of Natural Resources) post here has at least one Raptor.  I know for a fact the agents have some fun with it because otherwise they're driving a bone-stock Silverado.

USFS won't even allow us to get Power Rams...

[SVT666]

Motor Trend chose the Raptor over the Ram Runner because the Ram was very one dimensional whereas the Raptor was better in every single category except one.

Tanner Foust did a 9:48 around the Ring in a Raptor.

[Expeditioner]

http://m.autoblog.com/2014/04/11/ram-runner-called-out-by-kent-kroeker/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000595

Uh oh. The fella who helped develop the Runner says it's junk and the Raptor is better.

[Rupert]

USFS won't even allow us to get Power Rams...

But they do let us get Rubicons.

[SVT666]

http://m.autoblog.com/2014/04/11/ram-runner-called-out-by-kent-kroeker/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000595

Uh oh. The fella who helped develop the Runner says it's junk and the Raptor is better.

No he didn't.  All he said was getting Mopar to do it right was painstakingly difficult.  His biggest complaints were around government bailouts.  He never said anything about which truck was better.

[280Z Turbo]

Who cares what some dumb hillbilly thinks?

[Secret Chimp]

$15K is wrong actually.  It's much more.  The kit alone is $20,000.  Then you have to have it installed.  That includes, full suspension (c/w ball joints, tie rods, control arms), front bumper, Rear tire carrier, front fenders, rear fenders, hood, and cat-back exhaust.  There is easily $10,000-$12,000 in labor to install all of that since there is actually body work that needs to be done including painting.  This is on top of the cost of the truck (which if you are comparing equal equipment) is pretty close in price to an F-150 FX4.  The Raptor is just $3500 more than the FX4.

Oh come on, almost all of that stuff is easy as hell to DIY. That's what's cool about the Ram Runner anyways; if you have your own Ram you can add on stuff as you go. You can't piecemeal together a Raptor.

[Expeditioner]

No he didn't.  All he said was getting Mopar to do it right was painstakingly difficult.  His biggest complaints were around government bailouts.  He never said anything about which truck was better.

Uh, one of us has reading comprehension problems.






Hint:  Not me.