Dad's new DD

[cawimmer430]

Sport "look" vs. comfort.

The cars weren't differentiated enough.

Ah, that probably to.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Sport "look" vs. comfort.

The cars weren't differentiated enough.

G8s, Trans Ams, and GTOs weren't just sporty looking. They all kicked ass in a major way. Even this Bonneville had damn good performance in it's day.

[Raza]

G8s, Trans Ams, and GTOs weren't just sporty looking. They all kicked ass in a major way. Even this Bonneville had damn good performance in it's day.

Yeah, but that's like saying the Buick isn't a comfort oriented near lux brand because they had the GNX and the current Regal GS.

[Laconian]

Add two more in the back too.  AC pointing in 10 different directions ftw.

This is not enough vents.

[Vinsanity]

This is not enough vents.

I agee. There should be vents where the HVAC controls are. That would be a funny paradox.

[Raza]

I agee. There should be vents where the HVAC controls are. That would be a funny paradox.

The knobs are vents themselves!  The vents are the knobs!  THAT IS THE SOUND OF THE WORLD IMPLODING!

[Vinsanity]

The knobs are vents themselves!  The vents are the knobs!  THAT IS THE SOUND OF THE WORLD IMPLODING!

I'm sure someone at Pontiac seriously thought that would've been a good idea

[Submariner]

Amazing how much better it looks after Pontiac smoothed out all that stupid ribbed cladding.

It was/is a good looking car. 

[Laconian]

I agee. There should be vents where the HVAC controls are. That would be a funny paradox.

The car is FWD augmented with rear vent assist. The sporty dual exhaust is actually equipped with separate climate control zones.

[280Z Turbo]

IT'S THE ONLY CAR EQUIPPED WITH A TRANE ROOF TOP UNIT. IT WILL BE WINDIER INSIDE THE CAR THAN OUTSIDE.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Yeah, but that's like saying the Buick isn't a comfort oriented near lux brand because they had the GNX and the current Regal GS.

I get your point but it's not the same because the GN/GNX and the current Regal are seperated by almost 25 years. The cars I listed were on sale for damn near 40 consecutive years.

[Raza]

I get your point but it's not the same because the GN/GNX and the current Regal are seperated by almost 25 years. The cars I listed were on sale for damn near 40 consecutive years.

The Firebird was, but not the G8 and GTO. 

[SVT32V]

I get your point but it's not the same because the GN/GNX and the current Regal are seperated by almost 25 years. The cars I listed were on sale for damn near 40 consecutive years.

Wow, 40 yrs, the GTO was made for what 10-12 yrs and then went absent for 30 yrs and re-merged for 2 yrs only to be outgunned by the '03-'04 cobra.

The G8 was around for what two years and a firebird hasn't been made in 10 years.

Both the '04-'05 gto and g8s are mere footnotes in automotive history

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Wow, 40 yrs, the GTO was made for what 10-12 yrs and then went absent for 30 yrs and re-merged for 2 yrs only to be outgunned by the '03-'04 cobra.

The G8 was around for what two years and a firebird hasn't been made in 10 years.

Both the '04-'05 gto and g8s are mere footnotes in automotive history

When I say 40 years I meant from the introduction of the original GTO till 2009 when the last Pontiac (G8) was made.with the exception of 2003, 2006 and 2007 there was always a true performer in Pontiacs line up. Unlike Buicks special models that came around every other decade!

[S204STi]

Sadly except for the Solstice, G8, and Monaro/GTO, Pontiacs didn't handle very well and they were very poorly built.  Buicks weren't much better, but had a fairly loyal base.  That and GM management has just been historically shit for decades now.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Wow, 40 yrs, the GTO was made for what 10-12 yrs and then went absent for 30 yrs and re-merged for 2 yrs only to be outgunned by the '03-'04 cobra.

Actually the GTO returned for 3 years and only the 2003 (300hp) GTO was "outgunned by The Terminator. '04-05 (400hp) GTOs were much stronger but by then you Beloved Cobra was gone. I'll throw The Fiero Formula and Solstice Turbo in the mix too.

[SVT32V]

Actually the GTO returned for 3 years and only the 2003 (300hp) GTO was "outgunned by The Terminator. '04-05 (400hp) GTOs were much stronger but by then you Beloved Cobra was gone. I'll throw The Fiero Formula and Solstice Turbo in the mix too.

GTOs were sold 2004, 2005, and 2006 not 2003 at 350 and 400 hp.  An '03-'04 cobra would have been a match for any of them. Then again in 2007 the cobra returned in GT500 form and would no doubt kick the gto in the ass on its way out the door.

Oh and the mustang has been made for 49 consecutive model years, now that is a streak.

[Raza]

Actually the GTO returned for 3 years and only the 2003 (300hp) GTO was "outgunned by The Terminator. '04-05 (400hp) GTOs were much stronger but by then you Beloved Cobra was gone. I'll throw The Fiero Formula and Solstice Turbo in the mix too.

You're a little off.

2004 was the introduction, with an LS1 making 350hp.
2005 and 2006 were LS2s with 400hp.

Heavy cars, but miles and miles away from its contemporaries in handling, refinement, and interior quality.  The Mustang of its time was a big, big mess, then the S197 came out with a 300hp V8, very much a knife in that gunfight compared to the LS2. 

[Raza]

GTOs were sold 2004, 2005, and 2006 not 2003 at 350 and 400 hp.  An '03-'04 cobra would have been a match for any of them. Then again in 2007 the cobra returned in GT500 form and would no doubt kick the gto in the ass on its way out the door.

Oh and the mustang has been made for 49 consecutive model years, now that is a streak.

And the GT500 had nothing on the Lamborghini Gallardo, a car similarly in a different class than the GT500, as was the GTO.  The GTO ended its life in the low to mid 30,000 range, whereas the GT500 was more like 50K, plus whatever insane markup dealers could get away with.  I remember looking at a leftover model, not discounted, but marked up to 75K. 

But this discussion isn't Mustang vs. GTO, but whether or not Pontiac was really a sporty brand.  While it did have sporty models, most of its cars were not GM's BMWs, but rather GM's approximation of what sport sedans were supposed to look like. 

The GTO was a great car--better than the Mustang of 04 and 05 (I say this with full confidence, having driven all of these cars)--but its greatest failing was in its name.  The Monaro was not a muscle car.  Bold and simple compared to many European counterparts, but far more refined than a muscle or pony car.  And if it weren't for name confusion, the model might have been in production today.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

GTOs were sold 2004, 2005, and 2006 not 2003 at 350 and 400 hp.  An '03-'04 cobra would have been a match for any of them. Then again in 2007 the cobra returned in GT500 form and would no doubt kick the gto in the ass on its way out the door.

Oh and the mustang has been made for 49 consecutive model years, now that is a streak.

True! I was off on the years and meant to type 350 for the horsepower! And you Mustang streak can't touch the Corvette OR Suburbans run.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

And the GT500 had nothing on the Lamborghini Gallardo, a car similarly in a different class than the GT500, as was the GTO.  The GTO ended its life in the low to mid 30,000 range, whereas the GT500 was more like 50K, plus whatever insane markup dealers could get away with.  I remember looking at a leftover model, not discounted, but marked up to 75K. 

But this discussion isn't Mustang vs. GTO, but whether or not Pontiac was really a sporty brand.  While it did have sporty models, most of its cars were not GM's BMWs, but rather GM's approximation of what sport sedans were supposed to look like. 

The GTO was a great car--better than the Mustang of 04 and 05 (I say this with full confidence, having driven all of these cars)--but its greatest failing was in its name.  The Monaro was not a muscle car.  Bold and simple compared to many European counterparts, but far more refined than a muscle or pony car.  And if it weren't for name confusion, the model might have been in production today.

I agree. The GTO should have been marketed just like the G8. As a poor mans BMW.

[Atomic]

Sport "look" vs. comfort.

The cars weren't differentiated enough.

Absolutely right and 2o6 is spot on, too about Buick's enormous popularity in China.

With Chrysler recently introducing the SRT brand as a division, I think we will see a few more cool cars like the Viper and "promising" Barracuda returning. A cleaver move, IMO with the reintroduction of the 'Cuda while Plymouth no longer being around. Somehow Chrysler Barracuda/ Dodge Barracuda does not do it for me.

GM could possible resurrect a few favorites (e.g., Firebird, Catalina). However, I think it would be very risky and perhaps too trendy if both Ford and GM and perhaps others do what I think Chrysler will pull off nicely with the SRT line-up.

[MX793]

True! I was off on the years and meant to type 350 for the horsepower! And you Mustang streak can't touch the Corvette OR Suburbans run.

There was no '83 model Corvette...

Although they technically claim they have built them continuously because they started production of the '84s very early in '83, well earlier than the normal '84 MY would have begun.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

There was no '83 model Corvette...

Although they technically claim they have built them continuously because they started production of the '84s very early in '83, well earlier than the normal '84 MY would have begun.

True!

[LonghornTX]

And the GT500 had nothing on the Lamborghini Gallardo, a car similarly in a different class than the GT500, as was the GTO.  The GTO ended its life in the low to mid 30,000 range, whereas the GT500 was more like 50K, plus whatever insane markup dealers could get away with.

The GT500 was more like 40-45K, and the markups didn't last long. I shopped them extensively when I was buying my 08'.

The GTO was a great car--better than the Mustang of 04 and 05 (I say this with full confidence, having driven all of these cars)--but its greatest failing was in its name.  The Monaro was not a muscle car.  Bold and simple compared to many European counterparts, but far more refined than a muscle or pony car.  And if it weren't for name confusion, the model might have been in production today.

It was alright. Incorrectly remembered by many as a great car, IMO. My roommate had one for quite some time and I drove it more than a few times. It was...alright. Nice interior, but not a terribly great car to drive fast, nor very rewarding when doing so. The S197 is a superior sporty car, that is for sure. It had a terrible shifter, terrible pedal placement, uninspiring handling and brakes, and a weak exhaust.

That cars biggest failure, however, was looks. It just didn't have them on the exterior.

[sportyaccordy]

Probably because less people want sport and more folks want comfort. Buick wins.

Kind of silly when you consider Buick's success has come from injecting (legitimate) sportiness into its cars. When Pontiac was around Buick had nothing like the Regal.

[2o6]

Why does anyone defend Pontiac of late? From at least 1985 onward, they made pure crap.

[sportyaccordy]

I agree. The GTO should have been marketed just like the G8. As a poor mans BMW.

Didnt work too well for the G8 though

Really the GTO/G8 were just poorly timed. Big heavy cars marketed to the everyman with price gouging and mid teen fuel economy in the context of $4 gas. Nothing could have saved them, even though they were good cars.

[2o6]

G8 should have been called "Chevy Impala".

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Why does anyone defend Pontiac of late? From at least 1985 onward, they made pure crap.

So the LT1/LS1 Trans Ams, Turbo Trans Ams (1989), Fiero Formula, Solstace Turbo, GTO/G8, V8 Bonnevilles and Grand Prix were crap? Even the Grand Prix Euro Coupes of the late 80s were solid performers. Now those rebadged Toyotas and Cobalts were indeed crap. Were you even alive in 1985 dude?

G8 should have been called "Chevy Impala".

Nope! It should have been called something new and not a damn letter/number combo! Same goes for the GTO....